But right now as I was saying,
we're in the middle of a situation where
people that don't often find themselves
faced with indictment and possible prison time,
are there right now because we've had 50 people right now
indicted by the federal government
for scamming universities, bribery,
money laundering, an assortment of crimes,
and I think some of them are really in denial
and when you first got charged
you think that you were in the same situation
that you were in denial at the same time, correct?
When I learned that I was in trouble I said
this is not a big deal,
they're gonna see that I didn't have bad intent,
that I was clearly swept into this,
and they're gonna see that I'm a student athlete from USC
and I had hundreds of clients who loved me
and I never had a problem before.
So as a result of that flawed thinking
and spinning lies to lawyers, then later lying to the FBI
because I did not want them to perceive me as a criminal
I had lied and made matters measurably worse.
So denial took years off of my life
and led to a longer prison sentence.
I want to break that down a little bit.
So, you got charged, and at the time,
had you admitted to yourself that you had done wrong,
or were you deluding yourself?
I was deluding myself.
In fact, I have trained new agents
at the FBI Academy Quantico Virginia,
and when the FBI agent that arrested me
introduced me to the agents he said before I spoke,
had Justin been honest with us when we interviewed him,
we would not have pursued prosecution.
Think about how different my life is
as a result of my unwillingness to accept responsibility
in front of two FBI agents because of shame, denial,
living like the ostrich with my head buried.
So yes, my life is forever changed
because I couldn't step up and say,
I made some bad decisions and I regret them.
So he said if you had been honest,
they wouldn't have prosecuted you?
Think about that, I talk a lot about post-defense conduct
in this Varsity Blues college cheating case.
We've got to pay attention to post-defense conduct,
what defendants are doing between indictment
and a potential trial or sentencing hearing.
It is a big deal the record they need to begin to create
as a law-abiding citizen,
because the government is judging them
for some bad decisions they made.
They've gotta work to change that narrative.
I did that terribly as a defendant.
They have an opportunity to do better.
But at the time you were sitting in front of the FBI agent
you weren't just lying to him you were lying to yourself.
And to my lawyers, flushing money down the toilet.
I was a lawyer's dream client potentially.
You said you spent 50 grand.
50 grand just to get in the door
and sign a retainer for a white-collar defense attorney.
I blew through 50 grand--
Blind.
Blind, immediately.
I didn't want to own and acknowledge my criminal conduct,
as I wrote in Lessons From Prison, I needed someone like me
to drop a bucket of cold ice on my head
and maybe throw a right punch and say get it together bud.
I didn't have that.
You said that you then got a criminal lawyer.
I did.
You were talking about taking a polygraph,
and this lawyer said look, do not lie.
You cannot beat this polygraph.
Do not kid yourself, do not go in there and try to lie.
And you studied countermeasures.
Not only, before I studied countermeasures
I told my lawyer, I said I'm insulted.
I'm innocent, I've done nothing wrong,
I've been swept into this.
I'm insulted that you actually would suggest
that I would cheat this exam.
This is how little you think of me as a client of yours.
He said Justin, please, you're very smart
but you can make some dumb decisions, do not cheat the exam.
So of course once I left his office--
You then went to the internet and start downloading--
I still have the receipt Dr. Phil,
$350 I bought a lie-detector test
and I studied very aggressively for several days,
studying to beat that exam
and mastering all of the techniques.
All the countermeasures,
everything from a tack in the shoe
to tightening your muscles in--
The tush.
The tush, everything, (Justin laughs)
and you got in there and failed miserably.
The lie detector test is presided by a former FBI agent,
I did it at the office in San Francisco.
And I sat for the test
and I squeezed my innards when appropriate,
pinched the toe when I was supposed to
and I thought I have this,
like I'll be back on the golf course in two days,
this is great.
And the results came back
and my lawyer asked the FBI agent to leave,
and then they said with greater than 99.99 percent
I had failed the exam.
And I remember looking out into Alcatraz
from the San Francisco office thinking, this is not good.
You said, and I quote from your book your lawyer said,
Justin you're going to prison.
It's time to wrap your mind around that reality.
You're on incredibly weak ground here.
The government prosecutors are
prepared to charge you with numerous felonies,
including now, obstruction of justice.
Yes.
Did it hit you then?
Embarrassingly no.
What I did do was say, do whatever you have to do
to ensure I get the best possible outcome.
Whatever I have to say to try to avoid a lengthy prison term
because my lawyers told me that you're going to get
five years in prison without question.
And I remember saying how could I get
five or six or seven years?
I was swept into this.
I didn't understand that whether you had intent or not,
how you respond to trouble
plays a significant role in your outcome.