WE LOOK FORWARD TO MORE.
>>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A TURN
NOW AND JOINING US NOW,
BEST-SELLING AUTHOR DANIEL
SILVA.
HIS NEW BOOK "THE ORDER" IS SET
IN THE VATICAN AROUND THE DEATH
OF A POPE WITH A -- WITH PLOT
LINES THAT INCLUDE THE RISE OF
FAR RIGHT POPULISM AND AN
UPCOMING GLOBAL PANDEMIC.
YOU ALWAYS DO THIS, DANIEL, WITH
THESE AMAZING BOOKS.
THERE ARE SO MANY.
THEY’RE ALL BEST SELLERS.
BUT YOU’RE DRAWING ON THE
MOMENT.
THIS MOMENT IN HISTORY IN MANY
WAYS.
WHEN DID YOU START WRITING THIS
BOOK?
>> I STARTED WORKING ON THE BOOK
LAST FALL.
IT WAS INSPIRED BY THE ABSOLUTE
HATRED, THE VITRIOL DIRECTED
TOWARD POPE FRANCIS BY THE
EUROPEAN FAR RIGHT.
HE IS THE BOOGIE MAN FOR THEM.
IT’S SORT OF PUT, YOU KNOW, ONE
PIECE TOGETHER.
STARTED BUILDING THE STORY FROM
THERE.
AND AS I WAS FINISHING THE BOOK,
THE CORONAVIRUS PUZZ STARTING.
SO THE STORY IS SET LARGELY IN
ITALY ON THE EVE OF THIS
TERRIBLE PANDEMIC.
MY CHARACTERS INHABIT ROME,
VENICE, FLORENCE, AND SO I WAS
WRITING IT REALLY WITH A HEAVY
HEART FOR THE ITALIAN PEOPLE.
I SPEND A LOT OF TIME THERE.
NOT KNOWING THAT WITHIN A FEW
WEEKS LATER, WE WERE GOING TO
HAVE IT, YOU KNOW,
UNFORTUNATELY, MUCH WORSE WITH
THEM.
WE DIDN’T LEARN ANY LESSONS.
WE DIDN’T LOCK DOWN.
WE DIDN’T DO ALL THE THINGS THAT
WERE NECESSARY.
AND NOW THEY ARE COMING OUT OF
IT, AND WE IN THE UNITED STATES
HERE ARE STILL IN THE THICK OF
IT WITH NO END IN SIGHT.
>> DAN, IT’S WILLIE.
GREAT TO SEE YOU.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR
SOON-TO-BE NEXT SELLER.
OBVIOUSLY, BY THE TIME THE
PANDEMIC HITS, EVEN IN ITALY,
YOU’VE GOT YOUR STORY IN PLACE.
BUT YOU BEGIN THE BOOK WITH A
PROPHECY ABOUT A GLOBAL
PANDEMIC.
HOW DID YOU TAKE WHAT WAS
HAPPENING IN THE NEWS AND PLUG
THAT INTO THE STORY YOU ALREADY
HAD IN YOUR MIND AND PROBABLY
DOWN ON THE PAGE?
>> YOU KNOW, I WOULD WRITE IN
THE REAL WORLD SORT OF ONE STEP
REMOVED.
IT’S JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT
FROM THE UNIVERSE THAT WE
INHABIT.
AND I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION.
IS THIS GOING TO BE A
CATACLYSMIC EVENT?
IS THIS SOMETHING I SHOULD
INCLUDE IN THE BOOK?
AND I ENDED UP DOING IT, AND IT
WAS SORT OF GABRIEL MAKING
ALMOST A BIBLICAL-LIKE PROPHECY
OF A COMING APOCALYPSE AND
WARNING A CHARACTER, A FRIEND OF
HIS, ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT TURNED OUT
TO BE TRUE.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE TALKED
ABOUT WARNED ABOUT WOULD BE THE
INABILITY OF POPULIST LEADERS TO
DEAL WITH THIS.
AND IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE WORLD
RIGHT NOW, WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT
TECHNOCRATIC LEADERS HAVE FARED
VERY WELL IN THEIR HANDLING OF
THE CORONAVIRUS.
AND THE POPULISTS HAVE FAILED
MISERABLY, WHETHER IT IS GREAT
BRITAIN, WHETHER IT’S BRAZIL OR
WHETHER IT IS THE UNITED STATES.
THE DISTRUST OF SCIENCE, THE
PLAYING TO THE LOWEST COMMON
DENOMINATOR OF THE ELECTORATE.
THE THREE MAJOR POPULIST
GOVERNMENTS HAVE FAILED
TERRIBLY.
AND TECHNOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS,
GERMANY -- I MEAN, A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
GREECE AS AN ALMOST FAILED
STATE.
WELL, THEY GOT RID OF THEIR
POPULIST GOVERNMENT.
THEY GOT SOME GROWN-UPS IN
CHARGE.
AND GREECE HAS JUST DONE AN
EXTRAORDINARY JOB HANDLING THE
CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.
THE POPULISTS, NOT SO MUCH, AS
WE SAY.
>> MIKE BARNICLE?
>> DANIEL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE’S
AN ELEMENT OF SAD INNOCENCENESS
APPEARANCE HERE TODAY.
USUALLY WE’RE ON SET EVERY YEAR
AT THIS TIME.
WE GET A BOOK.
YOU SIGN THE BOOK FOR US AND I
REWARD MY WIFE, ONE OF YOUR
BIGGEST FANS, WITH THE BOOK.
BUT THE VATICAN IS A SOURCE OF
ENDLESS, ENDLESS STORIES HAVING
TO DO WITH WHOEVER IS POPE AT A
PARTICULAR TIME.
BUT THIS PARTICULAR POPE, POPE
FRANCIS, YOU JUST ALLUDED TO IT,
IS SURROUNDED BY INTERNAL
CONTROVERSY.
MUCH OF IT BASED IN IDEOLOGY,
CONSERVATIVES, LIBERALS, AIMED
AT POPE FRANCIS.
HOW MUCH OF THAT SURPRISED YOU,
AND HOW MUCH OF IT HELPED DEFINE
THE CHARACTER OF THIS BOOK?
>> WELL, MY READERS KNOW THAT
I’VE HAD A LONG-RUNNING SORT OF
SUBSERIES OF THRILLERS THAT HAVE
BEEN SET IN THE VATICAN, HAVE
DEALT WITH INTERNAL CHURCH
ISSUES, CORRUPTION, THE HISTORY
OF JEWISH/CATHOLIC RELATIONS.
AND HE’S HAD A WONDERFUL
PARTNERSHIP WITH MY FICTITIOUS
POPE, POPE PAUL VII.
AND POPE PAUL VII AND FRANCIS
HAVE A LITTLE SIMILARITY.
THEY ARE BOTH OPPOSED BY
INTERNAL DOCTRINEARE REACTIONARY
HARD-LINERS AND OPPOSED BY FAR
RIGHT POLITICIANS.
AND, LOOK, I’VE BEEN ENDLESSLY
FASCINATED BY THE VATICAN.
I LOVE SPENDING TIME THERE.
I LOVE WRITING ABOUT IT.
AND, LOOK, IT IS -- YOU CANNOT
UNDERSTATE -- OVERSTATE, EXCUSE
ME, THE CRISIS IN WHICH THE
MODERN CHURCH IS IN.
THE MORAL CRISIS BECAUSE OF THE
SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDAL.
THE COMING FINANCIAL CRISIS.
I’M TOLD BY VATICAN INSIDERS
THAT THE CHURCH IS VERY, VERY
CLOSE TO BANKRUPTCY.
WE’VE HAD ARCHDIOCESE -- EXCUSE
ME, DIOCESE AND ORDERS IN THE
UNITED STATES DECLARE
BANKRUPTCY, BUT THE CHURCH
ITSELF IS IN REAL FINANCIAL
TROUBLE.
AND SO THIS PAPACY IS
INTERESTING TO WATCH, TO SAY THE
LEAST.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THE NEW BOOK IS "THE ORDER."
DANIEL SILVA, ALWAYS GREAT TO
HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.
SAY HI TO JAMIE.
COME BACK SOON.
QUICKLY, FINAL THOUGHTS.
WE HAD SOME NEWS WHEN IT COMES
TO CHANGING THE NAME OF
WASHINGTON, D.C.’S FOOTBALL
TEAM.
GENE ROBINSON?
>> YES.
THE LONGTIME RACIST NAME OF THE
WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM IS
BEING CHANGED BY THE OWNER DAN
SNYDER.
HE SAID IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN
UNTIL HIS CHIEF SPONSOR, FEDEX,
SAID, WRONG.
WE’RE TAKING OUR NAME OFF THE
STADIUM IF YOU DON’T CHANGE IT.
AND LO AND BEHOLD, IT’S BEING
CHANGED.
AND THAT’S A GOOD THING.
>> AND YOU WROTE ALL ABOUT IT.
YOU CAN FIND THAT IN "THE
WASHINGTON POST."