>> Stephen: HEY, WE'RE BACK HERE WITH RACHEL MADDOW.
OKAY, YOU HAVE THE NEW BOOK.
IT'S CALLED "BLOWOUT."
THERE'S A SUBTITLE, "CORRUPTION, DEMOCRACY, ROGUE STATE, RUSSIA,
AND THE RICHEST, MOST DESTRUCTIVE INDUSTRY ON EARTH,"
THE PETROLEUM INDUSTRY.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: SO OIL AND GAS GUYS, GOOD GUYS?
>> UH...
>> Stephen: REX TILLERSON PIE COMPARISON SEEMED LIKE AN ANGEL.
>> YOU LOOK BACK AT REX TILLERSON, BUT RUSSIA HELPED
TRUMP GET ELECTED RIGHT AFTER THEY DID A HALF-TRILLION-DOLLAR
OIL DEAL WITH REX TILLERSON, AND REX TILLERSON BECAME IN CHARGE
OF U.S. FOREIGN POLICY.
THAT IN ITSELF IS FREAKING WEIRD.
I WAS INTERESTED IN THAT.
I ALSO GOT INTERESTED-- I DON'T REALLY-- I DIDN'T START OFF
KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.
BUT I'M INTERESTED IN THE FACT THAT RUSSIA HAS BEEN TAKING ALL
THESE WILD PITCHES ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING US IN 2016.
LIKE, WHY ARE THEY THE KIND OF BAD ACTOR THAT THEY ARE THAT
THEY'RE WILLING TO DO STUFF FROM A POSITION OF WEAK THANS DOESN'T
SEEM LIKE THEY'RE USING ANY OF THEIR STRENGTHS?
AND WHAT I STARTED TO REALIZE IS IF YOU LOOK AT RUSSIA'S ECONOMIC
WEAKNESS, THAT'S A BIG PARENT OF WHY THEY THROW THESE WILD
PUNCHES.
IT'S ALSO WEIRD THAT THEY'RE SO ECONOMICALLY WEAK BECAUSE THEY
FLOAT ON A SEA OF OIL AND GAS, WHICH IS A REMUNERATIVE THING.
WHERE YOU HAVE OIL AND GAS IN THE WORLD IT TENDS TO SCREW UP
YOUR COUNTRY.
AND IN RUSSIA, IT'S NOT ONLY MADE THEM WEAK, BUT THEY USE OIL
AND GAS AS A WEAPON TO CORRUPT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT THEY WANT
TO KEEP WEAK AROUND THEM.
THAT'S PARTLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH UKRAINE, AND PART OF THE
BACKDROP OF THE UKRAINE SCANDAL.
AND IT'S HOW THEY THREATENED WESTERN EUROPE BY TURNING THE
LIGHTS ON AND OFF IN EUROPE TO EXERT THEMSELVES S.
>> Stephen: WHY IF YOU'RE A COUNTRY AS RICH IN NATURAL
RESOURCES, WHY DOES THAT END UP BEING BAD FOR YOUR COUNTRY?
IS IT BECAUSE JUST EXTRACTION INDUSTRIES THEMSELVES DON'T SORT
OF TRICKLE DOWN TO THE POPULATION?
THEY GET SKIMMED BY THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT.
>> IT'S AN ACADEMIC CONCEPT THE RESEARCH CURSE.
IN COUNTRIES WHERE YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF NATURAL RESOURCES THAT
ARE GOING TO GET EXTRACTED AND SOLD INTERNATIONALLY, EVEN
THOUGH THAT PRODUCES A WHOLE BUNCH OF REVENUE, IT TENDS TO GO
TO THE ELITES AND TO THE GOVERNMENT, WHO THEN HAVE AS
THEIR LIFE'S MISSION STAYING IN POWER SO THEY CAN KEEP GETTING
THOSE REVENUES FOR THEMSELVES.
AND IT MEANS GOVERNMENTS IN COUNTRIES LIKE THAT STOP SERVING
ALL THE OTHER NEEDS OF THEIR PEOPLE.
SO YOU GET A LOT OF OIL MONEY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR INFANT
MORTALITY RATE GOES UP AND YOU GET POORER AS A COUNTRY.
>> Stephen: WHAT DOES MICHAEL JACKSON'S MEMORABILIA HAVE TO DO
WITH THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.
>> IT'S AN EXCITING PART OF THE BOOK.
I HAD NO IDEA WHAT YOU COULD BY BUYTHAT MICHAEL JACKSON WORE OR
TOUCHED.
>> Stephen: THE BOTTOM HAS FALLEN OUT OF THAT MARKET A
LITTLE BIT.
>> THAT'S A WEIRD WAY TO PUT IT, TOO.
IN ECTORRAL GUINEA, A SMALL, POOR COUNTRY IN AFRICA.
THEY DISCOVERED OIL.
THEY GOT LIKE BILLION GIVE BILLION IN REVENUE DUMPED ON
THEM OVER A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND IT WAS ONE OF THE
COUNTRIES THAT WAS AN EMPPOPULAR.
THE COUNTRY GOT POORER, THE CORRUPT WENT UP, AND ULTIMATELY
WANT PEOPLE IN THAT NATION DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM ANY OF THOSE
REVENUES COMING IN.
BUT THE PRESIDENT BECAME RICHER THAN QUEEN ELIZABETH.
HIS SON BECAME ONE OF THE FOREMOST COLLECTORS OF CARS IN
THE WORLD AND MICHAEL JACKSON MEMORABILIA.
LIKE CRYSTAL GLOVE.
>> Stephen: IT'S NEVER GLOVES.
IT'S GLOVE.
>> THERE WERE, LIKE, TROPHIES AND THINGS THAT HE TOUCHED AND
HATS AND THINGS HE WORE-- IT'S KIND OAF WHEN YOU CONSIDER WHAT
ELSE WAS GOING ON IN HIS COUNTRY, THAT'S WHERE THE OIL
REVENUE WENT.
THAT'S KIND OF AN EXEMPLAR THAT HAPPENS IN THIS INDUSTRY.
THERE IS GOOD NEWS.
THERE ARE WAYS TO RESTRAIN THE INDUSTRY, I THINK OKLAHOMA IS A
BIG SUCCESS STORY IN THE BOOK.
WE OUGHT TO BE COGNIZANT THAT THIS IS AN INDUSTRY THAT HAS
RESHAPED THE WORLD.
>> Stephen: THE BOOK IS "BLOWOUT."
IT IS AVAILABLE TODAY.
AND THE AUTHOR IS RACHEL MADDOW,