>> THE CONCEPT OF UNIVERSAL
BASIC INCOME MAY BE COMING TO
CHICAGO ON A TRIAL BASIS.
LAST WEEK, A RESOLUTION CALLING
FOR THE CITY TO USE DOLLARS FROM
FEDERAL RELIEF FUNDS FOR A BASIC
INCOME PILOT PROGRAM PASSED CITY
COUNCIL.
SOME ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ALREADY
BEEN TESTING OUT THE IDEA WITH
CHICAGO RESIDENTS PROVIDING CASH
FOR PEOPLE TO COVER EVERYTHING
FROM RENT TO STARTING SMALL
BUSINESSES.
HOWEVER THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE
WHO ARE SKEPTICAL OF A POSSIBLE
CITYWIDE PROGRAM AND INSTEAD ARE
LOOKING TOWARD BUILDING UP
EXISTING SOCIAL SERVICES.
JOINING US WITH MORE ARE BRUCE
MEYER, THE McCORMICK
FOUNDATION PROFESSOR AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO HARRIS
SCHOOL OF PUBLIC POLICY WHERE HE
STUDIES POVERTY AND OTHER
ISSUES.
EBONY SCOTT, PARTNERSHIP
DIRECTOR WITH THE FAMILY
INDEPENDENCE INITIATIVE AND
RICHARD WALLACE, THE FOUNDER AND
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF EQUITY AND
TRANSFORMATION.
WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO "CHICAGO
TONIGHT."
TO EBONY SCOTT, FIRST OF ALL,
EXPLAIN THE CONCEPT OF UNIVERSAL
BASIC INCOME TO US AND HOW IT
WOULD WORK IN THE CITY OF
CHICAGO?
>> SURE.
GLAD TO BE HERE AGAIN WITH YOU.
THE CONCEPT OF BASIC INCOME
GUARANTEED INCOME, IS SIMPLE.
IT IS A SYSTEM IN WHICH THE
GOVERNMENT OR ANOTHER ENTITY
PROVIDES A RECURRING PAYMENT TO
INDIVIDUALS OR FAMILIES.
>> AND YOU HAVE RUN A PROGRAM
WITH A SELECT FEW PARTICIPANTS
HERE IN CHICAGO FOR A COUPLE
YEARS NOW.
WHAT HAVE THE RESULTS BEEN?
>> THE RESULTS HAVE MIRRORED
WHAT YOU SEE ACROSS THE COUNTRY
WHEN IT COMES TO DIRECT
INVESTMENT OR CASH TRANSFER
PROGRAMS.
WE HAVE SEEN THE MYTH THAT CASH
DISEN SENT ADVISES WORK.
OUR FAMILIES WE HAVE ENROLLED
500 IN CHICAGO OUR DATA MIRRORS
THAT THOSE FAMILIES ARE DOING
MORE WORK BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE
THE MEANS TO START A SMALL
BUSINESS, LAUNCH A SIDE HUSTLE
OR TAKE ON A PART-TIME JOB TO
SAVE.
WE ALSO SEE INCREASES IN INCOME
AND SAVINGS.
AND THEN WE HAVE BEEN TRACKING
THE SPILLOVER EFFECTS OF SOCIAL
CAPITAL WHEN YOU INVEST CASH
INTO FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS,
IT ENABLES THEM TO BE A BETTER
STRONGER RESOURCE IN THE
COMMUNITIES THEY ARE A PART OF.
>> BRUCE MEYER YOU DON'T BELIEVE
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME IS THE
BEST APPROACH TO TACKLING
POVERTY.
HOW COME?
>> IF YOU MAKE THE BENEFITS HIGH
ENOUGH TO HELP THOSE THAT ARE
REALLY NEEDY, IT'S JUST
PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE AND
THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT
PROVIDING UNCONDITIONABLE CASH
TRANSFERS TO PEOPLE DOES
DISCOURAGE WORK.
WHEN WE MOVE FROM A
UNCONDITIONABLE WELFARE SYSTEM
TO ONE THAT ENCOURAGED WORK AND
PROVIDED BENEFITS TO THOSE WHO
WORKED, WE MOVED FROM 45% OF LOW
EDUCATED, SINGLE MOTHERS WORKING
TO 75%.
OVER SHORT PERIOD OF YEARS IN
THE 90s.
>> SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING YOU
WOULD RATHER SEE MORE FUNDS TO
BOLSTER SOCIAL PROGRAMS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
MORE MONEY TO HUMAN SERVICES AND
EMPLOYMENT SECURITY.
I THINK THE MONEY WOULD BE
BETTER SPENT THERE MORE TARGETED
TO THOSE WHO REALLY NEED IT.
>> RICHARD, YOU STARTED A UBI,
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME PILOT ON
THE WEST SIDE AND TARGETING A
SPECIFIC POPULATION.
TELL US ABOUT YOUR PROGRAM AND
WHO BENEFITS?
>> YES.
RICHARD WALLACE HERE.
OUR PROGRAM WEST GARFIELD PARK
FUTURES FUND FOCUSES ON SYSTEM
IMPACTED FORMERLY INCARCERATED
PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THE STUDY FOCUSES ON LOOKING
AT INCOME VOLATILITY, SIGH
LOGICAL WELLNESS AND RECIDIVISM
RATES.
>> AND THIS IS PRIVATE MONEY
THAT IS GOING AND TELL US HOW
MUCH CASH THAT YOU ARE ARE
PARTICIPANTS GET?
>> OUR PARTICIPANTS WILL RECEIVE
$500 A MONTH.
FOR 18 MONTHS.
DURING THIS STUDY.
>> AND WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?
>> WE HAVE NOT LAUNCHED OUR
STUDY OFFICIALLY YET.
>> YOU HAVE NOT DONE IT YET.
>> WE'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE
SEE.
THE SEED PROJECT IN STOCKTON
WHICH IS SIMILAR TO OURS.
>> AND EBONY YOUR PROJECT HAS
BEEN AROUND WHAT ABOUT THE
CRITICISM THAT IT DISCOURAGES
WORK AND THE MONEY WOULD BE
BETTER SPENT ON SOCIAL WELFARE
PROGRAMS?
>> YES, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE
THAT TO BE TRUE.
THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA
STUDIED THE ALASKA PERMANENT
FUND WHICH LOOKED AT THE IMPACT
OF WORK WITH RECIPIENTS THERE
AND THEY SAW AN INCREASE OF WORK
AMONGST PEOPLE I STRONGLY
DISAGREE THAT IT'S PROHIBITIVELY
EXPENSIVE.
CHICAGO ALLOCATES 1.42 BILLION
TO COMMUNITY SERVICES YET WE
CONTINUE TO SEE POVERTY RATES
RISE AND HOUSING INSTABILITY
IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE TO CONTINUE
TO NOT INVEST DIRECTLY IN
PEOPLE.
>> BRUCE, BROUGHT UP THE COST TO
CITY GOVERNMENT.
SAY THE CITY INSTITUTED A
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME PROGRAM
FOR ALL LOW INCOME RESIDENTS WHO
DO YOU THINK IT WOULD COST
TAXPAYERS?
>> IT'S HARD TO PREDICT BECAUSE
IT DEPENDS ON THE AMOUNT AND THE
DECADE DANCE OF THE PAYMENTS.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU WHEN YOU DO
A SMART AND TARGETED
DISTRIBUTION CAN YOU BRING DOWN
THE OVERALL COST OF SUPPORTING
COMMUNITIES.
I THINK THE WAY IN WHICH COOK
COUNTY ROLLED OUT THE CASH
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IS A GREAT
EXAMPLE.
THEY LOOKED AT FOLKS WHO PRIOR
TO THE PANDEMIC HAD ONE BEEN
LIVING IN UNDER INVESTED
COMMUNITIES AND WHO ARE ALREADY
LIVING AT 150-200% OF THE
POVERTY LINE.
NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THAT THESE
PAYMENTS GO OUT BLINDLY TO
EVERYONE.
BUT THE REALITY IS YOU HAVE A
SET OF COMMUNITIES WHERE WE'VE
POURED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO
THEM ANNUALLY, IN LITTLE HAS
CHANGED IN THE POSITIVE
DIRECTION AND THERE IS A
MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE.
THE OTHER IMPACT WE CONTINUE TO
SEE ARE THE BENEFITS TO MENTAL
HEALTH.
POVERTY IS TOXIC.
IT CAUSES TRAUMA.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
AND THE BEST WAY TO LIFT PEOPLE
OUT OF THAT, IS TO CURE THE
POVERTY WHICH IS AN ABSENCE OF
CASH.
>> BRUCE WHAT ABOUT THAT DIRECT
PAYMENTS COULD HAVE A
STIMULATIVE IMPACT AND SOME OF
THE WELFARE PROGRAMS ARE BLOATED
WITHOUT A LOT OF RESULTS WHAT
ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT?
>> WELL, EBONY AND I MAY AGREE
MORE THAN WAS SUGGESTED IN THAT
SHE TALKED ABOUT TARGETING AND
NOT GIVING THE MONEY BLINDLY TO
EVERYONE.
BUT THE ESSENCE OF THE UBI IS TO
GIVE MONEY TO EVERYONE.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH IT.
NOT TARGETED TO THOSE THAT ARE
REALLY NEEDY.
AND IF YOU DO TARGET IT TO THOSE
THAT ARE DISABLED, THOSE THAT
ARE ELDERLY AND DON'T HAVE
SAVINGS AND A PENSION, THOSE
SINGLE MOTHERS WHO CAN'T WORK,
THEN THAT IS GOOD.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE ESSENCE OF
THE UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME WHICH
IS TO GIVE MONEY TO EVERYONE.
>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO DISTINGUISH
BETWEEN BASIC INCOME TARGETED
AND UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.
A CRITICISM CAME FROM CITY
COUNCIL'S BLACK CAUCUS THAT THE
CITY SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON
REPARATIONS FIRST HERE IS WHAT
JASON ERVIN SAID.
>> UNTIL WE DEAL WITH THE ISSUE
OF REPARATIONS IN THE CITY OF
CHICAGO THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL
WE CAN SUPPORT DIRECT PAYMENTS
TO ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE
AMERICAN DES SENDENTS OF SLAVES
IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.
THIS IS A SLAP OF THE FACE.
>> RICHARD WALLACE WHAT ABOUT
THAT?
CAN BASIC INCOME PROGRAM COEXIST
WITH A REPARATIONS PROGRAM OR
SHOULD REPARATIONS BE CONSIDERED
FIRST?
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO LEARN TO
WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME
TIME, RIGHT?
WE HAVE A REAL ISSUE IN THE CITY
OF CHICAGO WHERE WE HAVE 81% OF
YOUNG BLACK MEN 17-24 UNEMPLOYED
IN WEST GARFIELD PARK.
BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS TWICE
OF WHITE WORKERS FOR DECADES.
AND SO GUARANTEED INCOME IS A
WAY TO SAY IF YOU MAKE X AMOUNT
OF MONEY OR FALL WITHIN X
DEMOGRAPHIC YOU WILL RECEIVE
RELIEF AND I WAS LISTENING TO
OTHER CONVERSATIONS RELATING TO
ACCESS OF JOBS WHEN AND WHERE
HAS THIS EXISTED?
WE HAVE THE HIGHEST RACIAL
WEALTH GAPS IN THE NATION AND
THE HIGHEST BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT
RATES IN THE NATION AND ONE OF
THE UNIQUE EXPAND COMPONENTS OF
THE SOCIAL CONTRACT YOU WILL
HAVE ACCESS TO THE ECONOMY IN
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
WE FOCUS ON THE INFORMAL
ECONOMY.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THERE IS A LOT TO TALK B IT IS A
BIG SUBJECT.