G'day, A.J. Mahari here to answer a question that's been asked a lot on the channel recently
uh due to something i think i said in one of my recent videos and it might have been the
one about x hoovers and how what people bpd hoovering say kind of replicates
the uh deception which they don't do on purpose or consciously of the bpd idealization so the
question has been asked in a few different videos a few different ways i've got a few i've got a few
other videos up explaining this which maybe i'll try to link some under here when i get a chance um
so what i've said is that when people recycle so when you get hoovered or you reverse hoover and
you go back into the relationship after the bpd relationship breakup and you're recycling in the
relationship again that what happens is a high percentage like 97 percent or more who knows but
most of the time almost always but i can't say always but i don't want to give anybody
any false hope if the person with bpd isn't in treatment and if you're not getting help for
your codependency etc then nothing's going to be different and that's what happens most of the time
so people recycle in the relationship into it again like do-overs and you know
a lot of people who are the loved one or the ex of somebody with bpd
whether you have codependency whatever the case the non-borderline thinks often that it was your
fault that if you could have just not done this or done that better that the relationship would
have worked out with that person with bpd which is not really usually the case or true
so when people go back into the relationship with the ex the first time things are going to speed up
and i've said sort of like the splitting cycles speed up okay and so what happens is that that
relationship effort will will fall apart and you'll end up in another bpd relationship breakup
or getting ghosted again or whatever the case much more quickly than the first time and then
if you're recycling the third time you're going to end up going around getting hurt the whole
thing happening again and being over again much faster than the first and second times
and if you do it for four times it's going to be much faster than the third the second and the
first etc etc so what is that about well like i've referenced before in other videos i stand by that
it's like the splitting cycle is sped out but then i got to thinking about it yesterday when
i read like for these comments in a row cut on a couple on the same video but on ostensibly three
or four different videos and what i realized was so in a way yes there could be a splitting cycle
speeding up because sometimes the person with bpd hoovering or if you reverse hoover but more
to the point if they hoover you you're still in contact and so that you know this is possible then
they might get back to i want to say a wee bit of idealization and so that will that will end more
quickly but you're never going to get back to the original number one first time idealization
experience and so that's obviously what a lot of people are recycling back trying to get
trying to capture trying to experience again in the hopes that the person that you love with bpd
can be really more that person but they're still not going to be able to be that person
who you fell in love with who you thought they were so more to the point what i'm here to
just say a little bit more succinctly is yes the splitting cycles and the whole relationship cycle
and how it will devolve and break apart again gets faster and faster every time people recycle
through these relationships with an ex the same person right but more to the point what really
happens more often than not is that there is no re-idealization on the part of the person with bpd
so first of all there's a lack of idealization or re-idealization which means they're sort of coming
at you usually not always but from a less intense place but still equally as needy a place wanting
to get back together etc maybe many different points of what's most important about that to
you and to your ex about to be quote partner unquote again and then what what happens is
why these cycles are faster and the relationships will end quicker and quicker every time you try
and quick doesn't mean it ends in a day or an hour or a week or two weeks but it could
i've had clients where it ended seriously within like days and and or to a week or two
and some longer but these cycles speed up and yeah there's something to it can be splitting cycles
but if the person with bpd doesn't get well they won't get back to the initial idealization
so that's one thing the second thing is they might have a little bit of idealization again
but not like the first time and so then that's going to be a split to the value much quicker
and and the reason so so there's excuse me the reason for that is because they really
don't like everything is going to replicate itself because the person with bpd hasn't changed and you
likely co-dependent you haven't changed so there's this sort of like best behavior
time and the newness of trying again which really kind of isn't so new after a while because
all of that lack of resolution on that happened with the bpd relationship breakup
now you're recycling back you're getting back with the ex well you have to consider all the episodes
all the difficulties all the times you try to get them to understand what they were doing or
they couldn't take personal responsibility all of those times are also lack of closure
lack of closure each episode so they accrue and then there's a damage that you recruit even if
you still love them so this is why this is a highly codependent thing to do to recycle back
into the relationships in the first place and then the other aspect of this i just really want
to cover which is the the key part of why do when you recycle back with the axe that the first time
it's going to end and usually not work out and end faster the second time if you do it it'll end even
faster the third time even faster is because there is that lack of it can only be a small
degree of idealization if any so often there's no idealization no re-idealization no idealization
they're just in this sort of like wanting you back place and trying to not be alone and whatever it
is they need and consciously or you know maybe not consciously aware of it you're looking to get back
that person you're looking to maybe say well do something different you think it's going to work
so why these recycling the relationship with the x and faster and faster each time
is because there's nothing in between there's very little in between the person with bpd
if they're still remaining untreated especially their little in between them
and the uh the split to devaluation they can occur much more often much more frequently
because they're the person with bpd for lack of a better way to put it is essentially only
suspended so to speak in a base state a base emotional state of not being dysregulated
and splitting to devaluation to devalue you so there's less room there because
before they were in high idealization in the beginning of the first try right
the first relationship and now that's not there so there's the newness factor or the getting
back together factor that doesn't really mean re-idealization on the part of the person with bpd
and so what happens there then is the split so they're in a base mood state they're in a place
where okay they're opening up again to try again but when a person with unsheathed bp is opening up
it's not really like opening up but and so they're going to encounter all the same difficulties
inside as they had in the relationship the first time before the first bp relationship breakup
so then what's going to happen is they they start to feel stress or anxiety or or
triggered or like they still can't trust you and they'll get into all the same cycles again
and now they're not going from idealization to the split to devaluation they're going from
wanting to try this again and and and not maybe understanding exactly what drives that for them
just as a lot of people with codependency aren't maybe as consciously awares as you could be
what's driving it for you because if you were more consciously aware and i mean this with all
due respect you would stop the cycle right because that's what invariably will happen
people will need to face that at some point or other so with people that are untreated
with bpd and again i'm speaking generally it applies in most cases like a high like 97
but there could be something different happen but people really shouldn't bank on that
so then the other point i'm just trying to make here to drive this point home for people that
want to consider it or understand it better is that so these people are only when you
recycle back with the excess bp and you're in the relationship again why it's going to end faster
and faster each and every time if you try retry multiple times recycle multiple times through
that relationship again is because there's no buffer there so the same issues exist between you
and and they were the person with bpd and you or for each of you and so pretty soon the newness
of relating again and being back together is going to get challenged by what happens for
people with untreated bpd and they're going to get triggered they're going to have another you know
response reaction to a trigger and or whatever their patterns were before and whatever that looks
like for each person with bpd then you're going to be re-experiencing whether it's a conversation
or they're yelling at you or they're giving you the silent attribute or whatever it is that that
is their pattern that's going to happen again faster so split to devaluation occurs
much faster and much more often because all the same issues are there a person with bpd
hasn't got any more treatment or if they've just started then they haven't had a chance to really
learn and grow and understand more about how to relate and what splitting is and how to
find themselves so these relationships recycled relationships will will go around and end faster
and faster every time you try because there is no idealization or very little but not the same as
the first time that the idealization is missing and so they're in a base mood state
and that's closer to always closer to a split to the valuation and then they're going to go to the
split to devaluation because they're going to get triggered again and the triggers are within them
but just trying to relating is too much for a lot of people with untreated bpd and it's got
to do with all the emotions and the triggers and what they don't understand consciously
unless until they get significant treatment and how they can't regulate what's happening inside of
them and then they're going to externalize it out onto you again unless they internalize quiet bpd
and they're going to pull away or ghost you again or give you the silent treatment or some
you know combination so it's lack of idealization it is base mode that they're in that they're
trying to then extend themselves to relate to you again with and what i mean by that is all
they're going through internally that they're not consciously aware of that struggle and then
people of codependency haven't changed and so it's going to be the same thing again
issues are going to happen triggers are going to happen same behavior is going to repeat itself
people's cold pencil you're going to end up being hurt again and feeling rather like the
same as you did in the initial relationship or base cycle recycle 2 or recycle 3 or recycle 4.
so the lack of idealization means they're closer to the split to devaluation
that's going to happen much more quickly and much more often because all the relational
issues that remain unresolved between you and the person with untreated bpd are still unresolved
and they're still not going to be resolvable and nothing's changed and so these cycles and
i know this from 30 years of working with clients that more than anything else is what informs me
these cycles just speed up every time so really rarely is there any re-idealization and if there
is it's like but a little bit of what you had the first time and then that won't last
long so they're b in base mode wanting to try something without the tools still and with all
the unresolved things that were that happened the first or second or third or fourth recycle
compounding on in relationship recycling with an x with bpd they're going to have all of that still
there they still can't trust they haven't had therapy they haven't been able to change people's
codependency are going to be in the same patterns and before you know it the splits of devaluation
is just going to happen more frequently more often get more severe and and then they're going to be
out of there or you're not going to know how to continue or they're going to ghost you over and
over and over again so that's why recycling back through the vpd relationship with the axe is going
to end up in you being spit out and hurt and you know like it's over again faster and faster with
each try and you're not going to ever get back to being idealized the way you were the first
time when you first met them and they're still not going to be able to trust you and like i said too
all those issues that happen in the relationship the first one and it broke up and didn't work out
they're going to be really ripe and ready and waiting there especially within the person with
bpd their inability to trust you're trying to rescue and fix them and just the ways that these
relationships really don't work when somebody has untreated codependency and somebody has untreated
bpd you're just trying to recycle back into that unhealthy bond and and when you're cycling back
into the same situation even though it might not seem like it you have hope you know everybody
thinks it's going to be different that's why it ends up going faster and faster each time because
because it just dysfunctions more quickly it just gets to the brass tacks of breaking apart falling
apart um being really uh you know the difficult relating the poor behavior of people with bpd uh
you know people with codependency trying harder to make it work and you just get back into that
conflict that both sides actually drive but people with bpd more to the point untreated can't help
but relate in the ways that they do because they don't have any more conscious awareness
and then they still won't be understanding how they impact you so it's like when you recycle
back into the relationship you're expecting change but from where and from home because if you're
codependent and you haven't worked on that yet and they have bp and they haven't sought treatment
yet and significantly for a period of time at least then this it's just a recipe for disaster
and this is a repetition compulsion recycling back to relationships with the same person
that both the co-dependent and the person with bpd share and it's a nightmare and people get
hurt so hope you'll think about that i hope that that helps people understand
maybe there's more i can say to explain it even better but i hope that that that is a beginning
that will be helpful for people who've asked the question again recently so take care