>>> WELCOME BACK. PAUL MANAFORT’S TAX AND BANK
FRAUD TRIAL IS GOING TO STRETCH
INTO ANOTHER WEEK.
THE JURY ISN’T READY TO DELIVER
A VERDICT YET, THEY HAVE JUST
GONE HOME FOR THE DAY.
ASKING TO BE RELEASED EARLY ON
THIS SUMMER FRIDAY.
AND WHILE THE JURY WAS
DELIBERATING TODAY, PRESIDENT
TRUMP SAID THIS WHEN ASKED ABOUT
WHETHER HE WOULD PARDON PAUL
MANAFORT.
MANAFORT. >> I DON’T TALK ABOUT THAT NOW.
I DON’T TALK ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THE WHOLE MANAFORT TRIAL
IS VERY SAD.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT’S GOING ON
THERE, I THINK IT’S A VERY SAD
DAY FOR OUR COUNTRY.
HE WORKED FOR ME FOR A VERY
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, BUT YOU
KNOW WHAT, HE HAPPENS TO BE A
VERY GOOD PERSON.
>> A VERY GOOD PERSON WHO IS
FACING 18 COUNTS OF TAX AND BANK
FRAUD AND COULD SPEND THE REST
OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL IF THE JURY
CONVICTS HIM.
CONVICTS HIM. JOINING US NOW, NBC NEWS
NATIONAL SECURITY AND JUSTICE
REPORTER JULIA AINSLEY FROM
OUTSIDE THE COURT HOUSE ALONG
WITH CHUCK ROSENBERG, MSNBC
CONTRIBUTOR.
CONTRIBUTOR. JULIA, EVEN THOUGH TODAY ENDED A
BIT EARLY, IT WAS AN INTERESTING
DAY.
DAY. THE JURY ASKED TO GO HOME EARLY
AND THE JUDGE ANNOUNCED THAT HE
IS GETTING DEATH THREATS AND
HE’S CONCERNED ABOUT THE
WELL-BEING OF THE JURORS AS
WELL.
WELL. >> Reporter: THAT’S RIGHT, KATY.
SO RIGHT NOW WE’RE IN A WEEKEND
RECESS.
RECESS. THEY’LL COME BACK AT 9:30 ON
MONDAY TO CONTINUE THESE
DELIBERATIONS.
DELIBERATIONS. WHAT’S CLEAR SO FAR IS THAT THIS
IS A JURY THAT WANTS TO TAKE ITS
TIME.
TIME. IT’S A COMPLICATED CASE, IT’S
NOT LIKE YOU CAN -- THE CASE OF
A SMOKING GUN AND SOMEONE BEING
IN ONE PLACE AT ONE TIME.
THIS IS MORE COMPLICATED WHEN IT
COMES TO TAX AND BANK FRAUD.
THERE ARE 18 COUNTS.
SOME ARE CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT
THE CRIME AND SOME ARE
COMMITTING THE CRIME ITSELF.
THE QUESTIONS THEY ASKED
YESTERDAY, PARTICULARLY THE
REQUIREMENTS FOR FILING ON
FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNTS, IT’S
CLEAR THEY WANT TO BE REALLY
CAREFUL.
CAREFUL. THEY ALSO HAVE MOUNTAINS OF
DOCUMENTS, EVEN MORE EVIDENCE
THAN WE SAW DURING THE TRIAL SO
THAT’S A LOT TO GO THROUGH.
WE SAW PEOPLE COMING OUT FOR
PERIODIC BREAKS, BUT FOR THE
MOST PART THEY STAYED INSIDE ALL
DAY GOING OVER THIS.
SO IT MAKES SENSE THEY WOULD
WANT A BREAK.
IT SEEMS ONE JUROR HAD AN EVENT
THEY HAD TO GET TO SO THEY LEFT
BY 5:00 TODAY.
AND NOW WE ARE HEARING THAT THE
JUDGE IS HAVING THREATS.
I’M NOT SURE IF THEY’RE DEATH
THREATS, WHAT KIND THEY ARE, BUT
DEFINITELY THREATS TO HIS
SECURITY.
SECURITY. HE HAS A U.S. MARSHAL IN THE
COURTROOM NOW WHO APPARENTLY
ESCORTS HIM AROUND TO SECURE HIS
SAFETY.
SAFETY. IT’S FOR THAT REASON THAT HE
DOES NOT WANT TO REVEAL THE
NAMES OF THE JURORS EVEN AFTER
THE VERDICT COMES.
HE WANTS TO PROTECT THEM BECAUSE
HE SAID HE’S BEEN SURPRISED BY
THE LEVEL OF ATTENTION THIS CASE
HAS GOTTEN.
HAS GOTTEN. >> JULIA AINSLEY, JULIA, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
CHUCK, LET’S GET INTO THIS A
LITTLE BIT MORE.
WHEN YOU’RE HEARING THAT THE
JURY SEEMS TO BE TAKING ITS TIME
IN THIS CASE, IF YOU’RE A
PROSECUTOR, ARE YOU NERVOUS?
>> NO.
>> NO. PROSECUTORS TOOK THEIR TIME TO
LAY OUT A METHODICAL CASE.
THE JURY IS TAKING ITS TIME TO
REVIEW THE METHODICAL CASE THEY
LAID OUT.
LAID OUT. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THEY ASKED
THE OTHER DAY STRUCK ME AS
REALLY INTERESTING ALONG THOSE
LINES.
LINES. THEY WANTED THE JUDGE TO TELL
THEM OF THE BIG STACK OF
EXHIBITS THEY HAD, WHICH COUNTS
DID THEY PERTAIN TO.
AND THE JUDGE OF COURSE SAID I
CAN’T DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO DO
THAT.
THAT. SO THEY’RE GOING TO MATCH
EXHIBITS TO COUNTS IN THE
INDICTMENT AND TRY TO MAKE SENSE
OF IT.
OF IT. THEY’RE TAKING THEIR TIME TO GET
IT RIGHT.
IT RIGHT. >> HARRY LITMAN WAS ON WITH US
YESTERDAY AND HE SAID THERE’S
ZERO CHANCE OF AN ACQUITTAL.
WOULD YOU AGREE OF THAT?
>> THERE’S ZERO CHANCE THAT I
WILL FLAP MY HANDS AND FLY HOME.
THERE IS A NONZERO CHANCE OF AN
ACQUITTAL.
ACQUITTAL. I THINK IT’S VERY LIKELY THEY
WILL CONVICT.
WILL CONVICT. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THEY
DIDN’T.
DIDN’T. >> I KNOW THAT YOU DON’T GET
INTO THE POLITICS OF THIS ALL
BUT IF THEY DO COME BACK WITH A
KWITLE -- ACQUITTAL, WHAT WILL
THAT DO?
THAT DO? >> THAT INVESTIGATION IS IS
PREDICATED ON FACTS AND LAW AND
THOSE DON’T CHANGE MY VIRTUE OF
AN ACQUITTAL.
AN ACQUITTAL. IT MATTERS A LOT THAT THE
PROSECUTORS WIN THEIR FIRST
PUBLIC TRIAL.
PUBLIC TRIAL. I’M SURE THEY’RE FEELING THE
PRESSURE.
PRESSURE. I’M SURE THAT THEY WANT TO BRING
HOME WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS A JUST
AND GUILTY VERDICT.
BUT FACTS AND LAW DON’T CHANGE.
>> THE PRESIDENT TODAY SAID HE
WOULDN’T TALK ABOUT PARDONING
MANAFORT.
MANAFORT. BUT HE DID MAKE A POINT OF
CALLING HIM A GOOD GUY AND SAID
IT WAS A SAD DAY FOR THIS
COUNTRY THAT HE WAS ON TRIAL.
>> IN THE SAME SENTENCE THAT HE
SAID HE WOULD NOT TALK ABOUT
MANAFORT, HE TALKED ABOUT
MANAFORT.
MANAFORT. THAT SEEMS KIND OF ODD.
WAS HE SIGNALING TO MANAFORT?
POSSIBLY.
POSSIBLY. IT’S CLEAR TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED
THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS THAT
AUTHORITY.
AUTHORITY. >> IF YOU’RE HIS DEFENSE LAWYER,
MANAFORT’S DEFENSE LAWYER, AND
YOU’RE HEARING THAT, ARE YOU
THINKING, HEY, THIS COULD BE
SOMETHING WE CAN HOLD OUT HOPE
FOR?
FOR? >> SURE, YOU ALWAYS HOLD OUT
HOPE, I GATHER.
I’M SURE THEY’RE ALSO HOLDING
OUT HOPE FOR AN ACQUITTAL.
ON THAT POINT, PLEASE REMEMBER I
THINK IT’S IMPORTANT FOR YOUR
VIEWERS TO KNOW, TO BE ACQUITTED
IN A FEDERAL TRIAL, THE JURY HAS
TO BE UNANIMOUS, 12-0, JUST LIKE
THEY HAVE TO BE YOUUNANIMOUS TO
CONVICT.
CONVICT. RUNNING THE TABLE TO GET
ACQUITTED ON 18 COUNTS SEEMS
UNLIKELY TO ME.
>> THIS IS A FINANCIAL CRIMES
CASE.
CASE. WE WOULD NOT BE PAYING ATTENTION
IF PAUL MANAFORT WASN’T THE
FORMER CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN AND IF
THIS WASN’T DONE BY THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL INVESTIGATING RUSSIA.
IT IS A BIT OF A SIDE ISSUE FOR
ROBERT MUELLER’S TEAM.
IT DOESN’T FIT NEATLY INTO THE
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION WHICH IS
WHY I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
AT THIS TRIAL AND LOOKING FOR
ANY HINTS.
ANY HINTS. THE FACT THAT A COUPLE OF BENCH
DISCUSSIONS WERE SEALED, I THINK
THERE ARE FOLKS OUT THERE OR
THERE ARE FOLKS OUT THERE
LOOKING AT THAT AND SAYING
THAT’S BECAUSE MAYBE GATES’
TESTIMONY PERTAINS TO THE
INVESTIGATION GOING FORWARD AND
ARE WONDERING HOW THIS TRIAL
MIGHT TIE INTO EVERYTHING ELSE.
>> SO THE CASE ITSELF, THE
THINGS WITH WHICH MANAFORT IS
CHARGED DON’T SEEM TO BE AT THE
HEART OF THE RUSSIA INTERFERENCE
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. BUT I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT
BUT, KATY.
BUT, KATY. WHAT DOES MANAFORT KNOW BASED ON
HIS TIME IN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN
AND IN THE TRUMP ORBIT.
IS IT APPROPRIATE TO CHARGE HIM
WITH THE STUFF?
ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY. WHY?
WHY? BECAUSE HE COMMITTED THOSE
CRIMES.
CRIMES. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT?
WELL, THE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE
IS PRETTY STRONG, BUT THEY WANT
SOMETHING ELSE.
SOMETHING ELSE. >> ARE PROSECUTORS TRYING TO
TURN HIM TO GET HIM TO TALK?
>> PROSECUTORS ARE TRYING TO
TURN ANYBODY WHO HAS TRUTHFUL
INFORMATION THAT WILL FURTHER AN
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. SO I HATE TO TURN THAT QUESTION
ON YOU, BUT IF HE HAS TRUTHFUL
INFORMATION THAT WILL HELP THE
INVESTIGATION, YOU BET THEY ARE.
>> WE’RE NOT EVEN SURE THAT THEY
ARE TRYING TO TURN HIM, THOUGH.
IT COULD JUST BE --
>> THEY COULD JUST BE TRYING TO
CONVICT HIM AND IT COULD BE THAT
HE HAS NO INFORMATION ABOUT
ANYONE ELSE, BUT THAT STRIKES ME
AS UNLIKELY.
AS UNLIKELY. >> PAUL MANAFORT, WHEN HE TOOK
THE JOB, THERE HAS BEEN COMING
OUT IN THIS COURT TRIAL EVIDENCE
THAT HE HAD FINANCIAL PROBLEMS.
HE WAS LATE ON HIS PAYMENTS TO
AMERICAN EXPRESS.
AMERICAN EXPRESS. THERE WAS TALK ABOUT THE MONEY
HE OWED THE RUSSIAN OLIGARCH
WHEN HE TOOK ON THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN JOB AND DIDN’T TAKE ANY
MONEY FOR THAT JOB.
I KNOW WE’VE TALKED ABOUT THIS
BEFORE, BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE
IT’S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE --
IF I WERE A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR,
AND I’M NOT, BUT IF I WERE A
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, WOULD MAKE
MY EARS PERK UP.
I’D WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT
THAT.
THAT. >> YOU’D BOWE A GOOD FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR AND THEY ABSOLUTELY
WANT TO KNOW MORE.
IF THEY CONVICT HIM, THEY WILL
STILL TRY TO GET HIM TO TURN.
WE’RE WILLING AS PROSECUTORS TO
TAKE COOPERATION AT MANY
DIFFERENT STAGES.
DIFFERENT STAGES. IDEALLY, IT’S MUCH, MUCH EARLIER
THAN THIS.
THAN THIS. BUT AFTER A CONVICTION, AN I
BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE, AT
LEAST ON SOME LARGE NUMBER OF
COUNTS, HE’S WILLING TO
COOPERATE, WILL THE PROSECUTORS
TAKE IT?
TAKE IT? YOU BET.