We're following
breaking news just coming in to CNN
right now.
Attorneys
for former President Donald Trump
say they're unable or unable
to get a bond to pay
the $464 million fraud judgment,
calling it,
I'm quoting now,
a practical impossibility.
CNN's Chris
Cornell is joining us from New York
right now. Carol, what can you tell us?
Walk us through what this means.
So Trump's lawyers have informed
the appeals court today
that they are unable to get anybody
an insurance company, an underwriter,
to help them post this bond.
The $454 million for Trump alone,
the rest to cover his sons.
And what they say is
that they've approached
30 insurance underwriters,
some of these big, gigantic companies
that you know,
and they say that
none of them are willing to do it.
As you said,
they're calling it
a practical impossibility.
You know,
one of the reasons that they say
is an issue here
is that some of these insurance companies
have internal limits,
that they won't issue a bond
for more than $100 million.
And some of the biggest names
that you can think of in
the insurance world
also will not underwrite a bond
and take property, which is what
Trump has to put up.
They want cash.
They want security stocks bonds,
something that is what's a liquid,
easy to sell asset.
They don't want property.
And so that is the problem
that Trump has run into
in trying to come up with this
massive amount of money
half a billion dollars.
You know, these bond companies, too,
they also want their own,
I guess you could call it,
you know, insurance on it.
They want extra money than just
what the bond is
so that they can cover this.
As that as it plays out,
this bond is to
stop the New York attorney
general's office
from seizing the property
while the appeal of the judgment
and the case goes forward.
So they've been asking the Trump
team has been asking the appeals court
to allow them
to not have to post this bond
until the appeal is over.
They're saying that Trump has properties
that are worth more than the judgment
in this case.
It's just something
that the insurance companies won't take.
So they're saying
that the attorney general's team
will be able to collect on this judgment
if it stands.
And they could do so
by seizing some of the properties
which the attorney general's office
said they're ready to do.
But they're still
asking the appeals court
here for more time.
And that's
why we're seeing this new information
come out today
saying they're unable
to post the bond of this magnitude.
They can't get anyone
to underwrite it
because it is just a large amount
and particularly a large amount
for one individual Wolf.
So, Kara,
what comes next in this process?
So now it is before the appeals court.
There's been briefing on this.
It's up
to this New York state
appeals court
to decide whether to allow Trump to move
forward with the appeal
and stop the attorney general's office
from seizing properties
to give them this time to
to have the court case play out.
If the court says that Trump
does not get this stay, Trump's
side is asking them
to allow them to put their ruling on hold
so they can appeal to the highest appeals
court in New York state,
that those will be decisions
for the New York appeals court to decide.
And, of course, New York attorney
general's office has opposed this.
They want the appeals court
to allow them to enforce the judgment.
Now, if Trump cannot post that bond Wolf.
All right, Carol, we'll stay in close
touch with you to see what happens.
A significant development of development.
Indeed, they were not.
Let's start with you,
because you've represented it.
You've represented
rather and prosecuted
large real estate developers before.
What happens if they can't get a bond?
If they can't get a bond collection?
Efforts go forward,
which, first of all, can be expensive.
Okay.
It's a
there's a court process where
the New York attorney general
is going to be trying to collect
that judgment.
Could potentially put
Leon's on properties
in, you know,
essentially entering
that order into
various other proceedings. For example.
So that would potentially be
an issue for Trump.
He doesn't
if he's already got his real estate
highly encumbered with loans and so on.
Having to deal with collection
efforts and pay attorneys
to fight off collection
efforts is yet another problem
that he doesn't
want to have to deal with.
And his attorneys say that he approached
30 underwriters to back the bond.
Does that make sense to you
that they would all say no,
Well, in
my experience,
real estate developers
tend to be very highly illiquid.
They tend to be highly leveraged.
They tend to have all sorts of loans.
They you know,
they might have
a revolving line of credit.
They may have
various loans
and personal guarantees out there.
However, what I will say is
that, you know,
this is not a complete surprise
to Donald Trump.
It's not like the New York
attorney general's
case happened over the course of minutes.
It happened over the course of years.
And Trump could anticipate
a potential judgment.
And the fact that he hasn't
prepared by refinancing
and making selling properties
and so on suggest
that he may be less wealthy
than he is portrayed himself to be.
On that note, thank you for teeing up
Kristen Holmes,
who covers the Trump campaign
for us Christine.
You know
very well
that a big part of Donald Trump's
identity is how wealthy he is
and the idea
that he can't pay this money.
I mean, it wouldn't be
out of this world for you
or I or most normal people
not to pay
half a billion dollars
and not to have that lying around
in our bank account,
but it might be different
when it comes to
how Donald Trump thinks he's perceived.
Yeah.
Dan, I just want to start by saying
that you should know
that there are a lot of Trump
allies who watch your show
and they've been texting me
with the argument of one.
Most billionaires are not liquid.
This is not that surprising.
The other argument
saying this is about
the insurance companies,
this insane amount
this is their words, not mine.
In terms of the bonds,
these insurance
companies can't get that much money,
that much collateral.
So there is an argument here
among Trump World.
But as you know,
Donald Trump
himself has painted himself
his entire image, not just politically,
but also before that his brand
on being a billionaire.
And that is why this case was so personal
for him in the first place
was the idea that everything he had built
was essentially on a lie,
was because it was fraudulent,
that he wasn't really this rich,
that he had inflated those numbers.
That's why you saw him so fascinated
and so intent on being part of this case,
sitting in that courtroom, listening
to these various witnesses,
because it is to his personal brand.
It also goes to his political brand,
this idea that I build myself up
as a billionaire.
I could do that for you to
goes away
if you can't afford
to pay this kind of money.
And let me just go back
to Renato on this,
because you did mention
that most real estate
developers are not liquid.
They can't just write a half a billion
dollar check.
I think that is probably true
for most billionaires,
although I don't certainly have
that experience to really know firsthand
but if they have assets,
the question is, you kind of said
maybe if he prepared,
he would start to sell things off.
I mean, is that a real possible city
that he might have to do that
Well, just say that
in other circumstances, other matters
that I've handled,
that is what's happened.
Essentially,
real estate developers refinance property
these sell properties,
do what they have to do to get cash.
Now, candidly, I've never been in a case
where a real estate developer needed
hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of millions.
It's only been in the tens of millions.
But nonetheless,
for those real estate developers,
it was a very significant
ask right
to come up with that kind of money.
If you have one,
or if your net worth
is in the hundreds of millions.
And so but for Donald Trump nonetheless,
he could have anticipated this
and sold a property
in the midst of the New York attorney
general's proceeding.
And I really would say
one of two things is true here.
Either
he doesn't have the wealth
that he suggests he has
or he didn't plan whatsoever.
You know, was so blind
to what was occurring that
he essentially left himself in a position
where now
he's going to incur
significant costs
and hassle
and a disruption to his business that
was unnecessary.