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Transcription of interview with Andre Geim on November 26, 2012.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, Financial Planner & Investment Advisor
Andre Geim is a Russian-born Dutch physicist. He won the 2010 Nobel Prize in physics along
with Konstantin Novoselov for the work on Graphene.
Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & investment advisor, interviewed Geim on Arutz Sheva Radio.
Douglas Goldstein: Tell us a little bit about the work youíve done on Graphene.
Andre Geim: Graphene is essentially a material which your pencil trace is composed of. You
draw a line on the paper and there are some dark lines and usually these are graphite,
but if you look carefully enough, you will find flakes and when you go down to one atomic
class, this will be graphene. Essentially, we have found a way of making this one-atom-thick
layer of graphite and if it will be just rubbed on the surface like a pencil trace but it
turned out that this material has remarkable properties. Itís stronger than diamond. Itís
more conductive than copper. It conducts heat better than anything we know. Itís completely
impermeable and it has very good semi-conducting properties and so on. Itís sort of a wonder
material these days which promises millions of applications. Sometime one of those guys
who studied this material and try to sort of offer this material for industry and for
people who know how to use this material for some consumer product.
Douglas Goldstein: Whatís the connection now between the work youíve done and industry?
Andre Geim: Usually if there is any new material, it takes 40 years before this material materializes
to consumer products. Take history of plastics, history of Teflon, history of silicon and
you see now itís 40 years. You canít really expect that someone find something and it
immediately changes our lives. Itís not like a better design or a new gadget which use
in just a little bit tweaking the soft way. Itís long term when it goes to hard way.
Itís a very long term prospect.
Douglas Goldstein: Is it possible that the speeding up of the world simply just doesnít
apply in your field?
Andre Geim: It does apply in the field. What Iím saying is that historically, it takes
very long time for anything which comes from an academic lab to go to a consumer product.
We generally do not expect anything different for any material. Graphene is a little bit
different because it has created a boom or height around this as developments were extremely
quick. Itís no longer on the academic lab, itís already in industrial companies like
Nokia, Samsung, Spinoffs of IBM plus probably a few hundreds of different small companies
around the world are interested in this material and so far kind of a small product start initial
applications used in this product.
Douglas Goldstein: What would you say is generally the reason that we see a difference or how
do industry professionals look differently at this sort of ideas from academic professionals?
Andre Geim: There is a big gap and usually people refer to this as a value of debt because
if you look at academia, typical processes, few PhD students, a couple of postdocs and
so on and they can produce anything what you can imagine in tiny small quantities which
usually can be seen on the microscope and so on. Weíre not different in any of thousands
of academics. Academics who are working on this material are now different and so you
ask your question how weíre going to bring from this level of investment, of this level
of manpower to consumer product.
On the other hand, there is an industry and this industry during the last 30-40 years
rationalized itself in response to demand of its shareholders so all research or any
research which is 3 or more years further down the line will [inaudible 00:06:31] by
a bit so take IBM [inaudible 00:06:33] apps or any big company, they got Phillips, they
got their research quarters to the bone and nothing is less and you see all comes immediately
shareholders, okay you go into cut of all of this research division shares shoot up
but itís a very short-term prospect. You win within the next maybe 10 years, but then
what we got people at industries, theyíre not able to take those inventions which are
coming from academia. The gap grows bigger and bigger.
Douglas Goldstein: It actually seems that we are a loggerhead because the industrial
world at the end of the day is looking mostly at cost and the academic world really doesnít
seem to care about cost as much as the other benefits, the interest or the prestige. How
can you suggest bringing these two together?
Andre Geim: Iím not sure whether this is the right assessment. Iím just saying that
there is a very long economic chain between fundamental discovery or fundamental knowledge
and the final consumer product. You get quickest profit if you look at the top of this chain
which is some tinkering with design and improving cutting cost, improving efficiency and so
on and it can be done within a few years, but eventually, you deplete your bottom line,
your fundamental knowledge and then you get these and there is no more supply of disruptive
technologies to fit the industry.
Our human nature is looking for short-term profit for rise in the share process that
could cause this dilemma, this conflict between fundamental knowledge and consumer product
so the gap is getting bigger and bigger. Iím not sure what to do but currently whatís
going on, the only chain which remains between academia and industry, itís students and
postdocs who graduate from academia start up their small companies, grow organically
into slightly bigger company then devoured by bigger companies and then devoured by the
companies in which you keep your shares.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you think that ultimately it requires some sort of government intervention?
In other words, man never would have made it to the moon if the government didnít pay
for it.
Andre Geim: I think the situation is even worse than it was during that time. At that
time, there was a public pressure on the government to keep technologically advanced all those
agencies like the [inaudible 00:09:59] agency [inaudible 00:10:00] power what created as
a competition. At the moment there is no public pressure on the government while companies
industry experienced a lot of pressures from shareholders to keep the profits up. We probably
need sort of change in mentality and a little bit change in government deception, what industry
can or cannot deliver and what academia can deliver or not.
Sometimes within 40 years, no one would take your financial advice because itís probably
done for a lifetime. Itís a difficult situation and it goes on all sort of levels and essentially
we live in a pretty safe world these days. Of course not Israel, this is why there is
a lot of investment in Israel in something which is relevant to security, but otherwise,
itís a pretty safe world and weíre not ready to invest into sort of prospects which are
carried in 20-40 years. In addition to that, the young generations of PhD students and
postdocs in the West, Israel excluding, fear themselves so to say theyíre prepared. They
inspire no more than to become middle managers, bankers [inaudible 00:11:59] all professionally
unemployed. I have many students and I donít know any one of them whoever inspire to start
a company that really get rich. My students started around four or five companies which
are doing things [inaudible 00:12:26] and they are aroundon some sort of home-based.
They donít want to expand. They feel so much safe in this one-man company or two-man company
so there is no drive anymore. We are too secure these days.
Douglas Goldstein: Can you just tell people, how is the best way for them to follow the
work that youíre doing?
Andre Geim: Google for the word Graphene and youíll find several companies from Samsung
to Nokia to smaller companies like Graphene Industries or Bluestone Company which have
nice webpages which show what sort of possibilities are open for us. So despite all of the pessimists
how this area to move in very fast and maybe this is one of those few examples where fundamental
knowledge can [inaudible 00:14:17] 40 years or 20 years, but maybe 10 or 15 things to
some consumer products.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, is the director of
HYPERLINK "http://www.profile-financial.com" Profile Investment Services
and the host of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show (Monday nights at 7:00 PM on
HYPERLINK "http://www.israelnationalradio.com" www.israelnationalradio.com
. He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S. and Israel. Securities offered
through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA. Accounts carried
by National Financial Services LLC. Member NYSE/SIPC, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book HYPERLINK "http://www.amazon.com/Building-Wealth-Israel-International-Investments/dp/193268784X"
Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or
can be ordered at: HYPERLINK "http://www.profile-financial.com"
www.profile-financial.com (02) 624-2788 or (03) 524-0942.
Disclaimer: This document is a transcription and/or an educational article. While it is
believed to be current and accurate, divergence from the original is to be expected. The original
podcast can be heard at https://sites.google.com/site/goldsteinradioshows/. All information on this website is purely
information and should not be used as the sole basis for making financial decisions.
The opinions rendered herein are those of the guests, and not necessarily those of Douglas
Goldstein, Profile Investment Services, Ltd., or Israel National News. Readers should consult
with a professional financial advisor before making any financial decisions. Please see
the complete disclaimer at https://sites.google.com/site/goldsteinradioshows/. LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
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click here and write a clever title– Transcription of interview with
Transcription of interview with Andre Geim on November 26, 2012.$
Andre Geim on November 26, 2012.$ Douglas Goldstein, CFP$
Douglas Goldstein, CFP$ Times New Roman
" WMFC Times
Times ew Roman
ew Roman Financial Planner & Investment Advisor
Financial Planner & Investment Advisor Andre Geim is a Russiank
born Dutch physicist. He won the 2010 j Nobel Prize in physics ˇ?
Nobel Prize in physics ?# along with Æ
along with ? Konstantin Novoselov#
Konstantin Novoselov# for the work on
for the work on Graphene.≤
Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & inves$ Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & inves$
tment advisor, interviewed Geimˇ? on Arutz
on Arutz ? Sheva Radio.
Sheva Radio. Douglas Goldstein:$
Douglas Goldstein:$ Tell us a little bit about the work you
Tell us a little bit about the work youíve done on
Graphene.≤ Andre Geim:{?
Andre Geim:?$ Graphene is essentially a material which your
Graphene is essentially a material which your?$ encil trace
encil trace composed of
composed of? . You draw a lŒ?
. You draw a l? ine on the paper and there are some dark lines
ine on the paper and there are some dark lines and usually
and usually these are graphite
these are graphite but if you look
but if you look carefully enough, you
carefully enough, you will find $
will find $ flakes and w
flakes and w hen you go œ
" WMFC to one atomic class, this will be graphen
to one atomic class, this will be graphen e. Essentially, we have found a way of
e. Essentially, we have found a way of making this &
making this & thick÷
layerr of graphite and iR?
will be just rubbed will be just rubbed?%
on the ˇ? surface
surface like Æ
a pencil trace a pencil trace
but it turned out that this material has remarkable properties. It
but it turned out that this material has remarkable properties. Itís
strong strong
diamond. It diamond. Itís ?
more conductive than copper. It% more conductive than copper. It%
conductˇ? better than
better than anythÛ
ing we knowŒ? ing we know?
. Itís completely completely —
permeable and it has ˇ? very good
very good conducting T
properties and so on. It properties and so on. Itís sort of a wonder
material these days which promises millions sort of a wonder material these days which
promises millions — of applications.
of applications. Sometime
Sometime one of those guys wh
one of those guys wh o studied this material and try to sort
o studied this material and try to sort offer÷
this material for industry and for people who know how to use this material for
" WMFC some consumer product.
some consumer product. Douglas Goldstein:$
Douglas Goldstein:$ Whatís the/
connection now between the work you connection now between the work youíve done
and industry?“?
industry?? Andre Geim:≤?
Andre Geim:?$ Usually if there is any $
Usually if there is any $ new material, it takes 40 years before this
new material, it takes 40 years before this material materializes to consumer product
material materializes to consumer product s. Tˇ
ake history of plastics, history of Teflon, ake history of plastics, history of Teflon,
history of silicon \? and you see now it
and you see now itís 40 years. You can 40 years. You can±
t really expect t really expect
someone someone
find something and k? it immediately changes our lives. It
it immediately changes our lives. Itís not like a better design ?
not like a better design ˇ? or a ‘
new gadget which use inR? just a liÛ
ttle bit tweaking the soft way. ItU? long t
long t erm when it
erm when it goes to hard way. Itº?
very long term ˇ? prospect.œ?
Douglas Goldstein:$ Douglas Goldstein:$
Is it possible that the speeding up of the world simply just doesn
Is it possible that the speeding up of the world simply just doesnít ?
apply in your field? apply in your field?
"System ???????
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click here and write a clever title Transcription of interview with
Andre Geim on November 26, 2012. Douglas Goldstein, CFP
Times New Roman Financial Planner & Investment Advisor
Andre Geim is a Russian born Dutch physicist. He won the 2010
Nobel Prize in physics along with
Konstantin Novoselov for the work on
Graphene.o Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & inves
tment advisor, interviewed Geim. on Arutz
Sheva Radio.
Douglas Goldstein: Tell us a little bit about the work youíve
done on Graphene.
Andre Geim: Graphene is essentially a material which your
encil trace composed of
. You draw a l ine on the paper and there are some dark lines
and usually these are graphite
but if you look carefully enough, you
will find flakes and w
hen you go w down to one atomic class, this will be graphen
e. Essentially, we have found a way of making this
thick layer
of graphite and i will be just rubbedo
on the surface
like c a pencil trace
but it turned out that this material has remarkable properties. Itís
strong diamond. Itís
more conductive than copper. It conduct
better than anythc
ing we know . Itís completely
permeable and it has very good
conducting properties and so on. Itís sort of a wonder
material these days which promises millions of applications.
Sometime
one of those guys wh o studied this material and try to sort
offeri this material for industry and for people
who know how to use this material for some consumer product.
Douglas Goldstein: Whatís the
connection now between the work youíve done and
industry? Andre Geim:
Usually if there is any new material, it takes 40 years before this
material materializes to consumer producti s. Ti
ake history of plastics, history of Teflon, history of silicon
and you see now itís 40 years. You can t really expect
someone find something and
it immediately changes our lives. Itís not like a better design
or a n
new gadget which use in just a li
ttle bit tweaking the soft way. It long t
erm when it goes to hard way. Iti
very long term prospect.
Douglas Goldstein: Is it possible that the speeding up of the
world simply just doesnít apply in your field?
Grizli777 _PID_HLINKS
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