THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME. THAT IS "ALL IN" FOR THIS
EVENING.
EVENING. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" STARTS
RIGHT NOW WITH ARI MELBER IN FOR
RACHEL.
RACHEL. >>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US
THIS HOUR.
THIS HOUR. RACHEL IS OFF.
WILL BE BACK TOMORROW.
I’M ARI MELBER.
WE HAVE A LOT FOR YOU ON THIS
VERY BUSY EVENING IN THE
IMPEACHMENT PROBE ON CAPITOL
HILL.
HILL. IT WAS EXACTLY THREE WEEKS AGO
TODAY THAT NANCY PELOSI
ANNOUNCED CONGRESS WAS MOVING
FORWARD WITH AN OFFICIAL
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. SPARKED BY THE REVELATION THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD PRESSURED A
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO GIN UP
DIRT ON ONE OF HIS POLITICAL
RIVALS.
RIVALS. AND WOULD GO ON TO ADMIT IT.
TODAY LAWMAKERS RETURNED TO
CAPITOL HILL FROM A TWO-WEEK
RECESS DURING WHICH MOST OF THEM
WENT BACK TO THEIR DISTRICTS AND
BEGAN TO HEAR WHAT THEIR
CONSTITUENTS ACTUALLY HAVE TO
SAY WITH FULL-BLOWN IMPEACHMENT
PROCEEDINGS GOING ON.
ANNOUNCED.
ANNOUNCED. WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK?
AND THIS PERIOD OF TIME HAS NOT
EXACTLY BEEN STATIC.
MEMBERS WERE MEETING WITH
CONSTITUENTS AS THIS NEW AND
DAMNING EVIDENCE HAS CONTINUED
TO COME OUT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP,
ABOUT UKRAINE, ABOUT RUDY
GIULIANI.
GIULIANI. SO RIGHT NOW THIS EVENING’S
ACTUALLY THE FIRST TIME THAT ALL
OF THOSE HOUSE DEMOCRATS
RETURNED AND MET PRIVATELY SINCE
ALL OF THIS TO DISCUSS WHAT DO
THEY DO NOW.
INCLUDING DISCUSSING WHETHER OR
NOT TO HOLD A FULL HOUSE VOTE ON
TRIGGERING THE IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. THAT’S SOMETHING PRESIDENT TRUMP
HAS BEEN TAUNTING THE DEMOCRATS
TO DO.
TO DO. EXPERTS NOTE IT IS NOT LEGALLY
NECESSARY TO INITIATE ANY PROBE
AND THAT MAKES THIS ALL KIND OF
A WASHINGTON DEBATE OVER WHETHER
THIS THING THAT THE TRUMP WHITE
HOUSE CLAIMS IS THE REASON FOR
THEIR STONEWALLING SHOULD EVEN
BE ENTERTAINED.
BE ENTERTAINED. AS WE WATCH THESE DEMOCRATS, YOU
SEE THEM HERE, JUST FILING OUT
LATE TODAY, AROUND 7:00.
THAT WAS PART OF THE DEBATE THEY
WERE DISCUSSING.
WERE DISCUSSING. TRUMP AND HIS WHITE HOUSE
COUNSEL INSISTING IMPEACHMENT IS
CURRENTLY ILLEGITIMATE WITHOUT A
VOTE AND THUS THEY WON’T
COOPERATE.
COOPERATE. BUT, OF COURSE, THESE DEMOCRATS
YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN AND A
HECK OF A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE
ALREADY KNOW THE WHITE HOUSE HAS
BEEN RESISTING COOPERATION IN
ALL KINDS OF CONGRESSIONAL
PROBES REGARDLESS OF ANY NEW
VOTE OR POTENTIAL VOTE.
TONIGHT THE VICE PRESIDENT SAYS
HE WON’T COMPLY WITH THE
DOCUMENT REQUEST, NOTING THIS IS
A, QUOTE, PURPORTED IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. DITTO FROM THE WHITE HOUSE
BUDGET OFFICE.
BUDGET OFFICE. AND THEN THE PENTAGON CHIEF WHO
SAID THEY WOULD COMPLY BUT IS
NOW, AS YOU SEE HERE, REJECTS A
HOUSE SUBPOENA AT THIS TIME.
THEN THERE’S RUDY GIULIANI, THE
FOCUS OF THESE NEW PROSECUTORIAL
SUBPOENAS LATE TODAY.
WELL, HE ALSO DISPATCHED A
LAWYER TO SAY THAT HE, GIULIANI,
IS REBUFFING THE HOUSE SUBPOENA
AND THEN GIULIANI’S LAWYER
PROMPTLY QUIT HIS JOB AS
GIULIANI’S LAWYER TODAY.
MORE ON THAT STORY LATER IN THIS
SHOW.
SHOW. SO WHAT YOU SEE IS OBVIOUSLY A
UNIFIED MESSAGE.
UNIFIED MESSAGE. BUT I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THE
FACTS SHOW THERE ARE NOT UNIFIED
RESULTS FOR THE STONEWALLING.
AS YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED, WHILE
THESE LETTERS ARE ALL FLYING
AROUND, MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO
WORKED FOR TRUMP ARE GOING RIGHT
AHEAD AND SHOWING UP TO
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. AND TESTIFYING.
AND TESTIFYING. AND PROVIDING EVIDENCE IN
WRITING, DOCUMENTS, TEXTS, AND
THEY’RE TELLING STORIES.
AFTER TONIGHT’S MEETING OF THE
DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS, SPEAKER
PELOSI SAID THERE WON’T BE ANY
OFFICIAL VOTE SOON.
NOW, IN JUST A MOMENT WE’LL BE
JOINED HERE ON "THE RACHEL
MADDOW SHOW" BY TWO MEMBERS OF
THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
IN THE ROOM FOR THAT MEETING.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE
WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT
AS WELL AS THE OTHER DRAMA
UNFOLDING ON THE HILL, THIS
EVER-GROWING PARADE OF FORMER
AND CURRENT SENIOR TRUMP
OFFICIALS WHO ARE NOT DEFYING
SUBPOENAS, WHO ARE APPEARING AS
WITNESSES IN THIS VERY REAL
IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING.
IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING. DEFYING THE ADMINISTRATION’S
ATTEMPTS TO BLOCK THEIR
TESTIMONY.
TESTIMONY. HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
CHAIRMAN ADAM SCHIFF, WHO WAS
THE ONLY OTHER DEMOCRAT WHO
SPOKE TODAY IN ADDITION TO THE
SPEAKER, HE CAME OUT, HE IS
LEADING THIS IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY, AND LISTEN TO THIS
BRAND-NEW UPDATE HE GAVE ON WHAT
HE THINKS THEY’RE GETTING FROM
THOSE WITNESSES.
THOSE WITNESSES. >> THANK YOU, MADAM SPEAKER.
I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF
UPDATE ON THE INVESTIGATION.
IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS I
THINK WE’VE MADE DRAMATIC
PROGRESS IN ANSWERING SOME OF
THE QUESTIONS SURROUNDING THAT
JULY TELEPHONE CALL BETWEEN
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT
ZELENSKIY IN WHICH THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES SOUGHT TO
COERCE A VULNERABLE ALLY INTO
CONDUCTING I THINK WHAT CAN BEST
BE DESCRIBED AS SHAM
INVESTIGATIONS INVOLVING HIS
OPPONENT AND INVOLVING A
DEBUNKED CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT
THE 2016 ELECTION.
WE HAD LEARNED THAT CALL WAS NOT
IN ISOLATION.
IN ISOLATION. THERE WAS A GREAT TEAL OF
PREPARATORY WORK THAT WAS DONE
BEFORE THE CALL.
THERE WAS A LOT OF FOLLOW-UP
WORK THAT WAS DONE AFTER THE
CALL.
CALL. AND WE HAVE LEARNED MUCH OF THIS
THANKS TO THE COURAGEOUS
TESTIMONY OF STATE DEPARTMENT
OFFICIALS WHO HAVE BEEN PUT IN
AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION BY THE
ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT IS
URGED NOT TO COMPLY WITH THE
LAW.
LAW. URGED NOT TO COMPLY WITH A
LAWFUL SUBPOENA BY THE U.S.
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. AND THEY ARE DOING THEIR DUTY.
AND PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE NO
MISTAKE ABOUT THAT.
THEY ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY
ARE REQUIRED TO DO.
AND I THINK SHOWING ENORMOUS
COURAGE.
COURAGE. SO WE’VE BEEN BRINGING WITNESSES
IN AT QUITE A FURIOUS PACE.
THAT PACE IS ONLY ACCELERATING.
WE’VE GOT A VERY BUSY FEW DAYS
AND WEEKS AHEAD.
>> BUSY.
>> BUSY. ANDS
ANDS AND THE WITNESSES HAVE A LOT TO
SAY.
SAY. TODAY IT WAS DIPLOMAT GEORGE
KENT.
KENT. A SENIOR OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF
UKRAINE POLICY.
UKRAINE POLICY. HE LEFT THE CAPITOL, YOU SEE
HERE ON OUR NEWS CAMERAS, THE
GENTLEMAN IN THE BOW STY,TIE, AF
MORE THAN TEN HOURS OF
TESTIMONY.
TESTIMONY. HE WAS PART OF THE PUSHBACK
INSIDE STATE OF THE PRESIDENT’S
ACTIONS AS WELL AS THE APPEALS
OF HIS ALLIES THAT LED TO THE
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. EARLIER THIS YEAR PRESIDENT
TRUMP, RUDY GIULIANI AND HIS
ASSOCIATES WERE TRYING TO OUST
THE AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE, MARIE
YOVANOVITCH, BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT
PLAYING BALL WITH THE EFFORTS TO
GET THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT TO
GO AFTER BIDEN.
NOW, ABOUT THOSE DOCUMENTS THAT
ARE HITTING CONGRESS, WELL, SOME
FROM THE STATE’S INSPECTOR
GENERAL SUPPORT THAT VERY
ACCOUNT.
ACCOUNT. SHOWING KENT WARNING ABOUT THE
CAMPAIGN ALL THE WAY BACK IN
MARCH.
MARCH. FLAGGING INTERNAL EMAILS ABOUT,
QUOTE, FAKE NEWS DRIVEN SMEAR
OUT OF UKRAINE.
KENT ALSO WRITING THEN, AND THIS
IS BEFORE HE KNEW ALL THIS WOULD
SPILL OUT IN PUBLIC OR HE’D BE
TELLING CONGRESS ABOUT IT.
HE WAS PUTTING IN WRITING THAT
THE SMEAR OF THE AMBASSADOR WAS
COMPLETE POPPYCOCK.
COMPLETE POPPYCOCK. TODAY KENT SAID THAT WHEN HIS
WARNINGS WHERE IGNORED HE WAS
ALSO TOLD TO LAY LOW.
"THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTING.
AND BASICALLY CORROBORATING THIS
IDEA FROM TESTIMONY THAT HE WAS
SUPPOSED TO DEFER TO PEOPLE WHO
LOOK BY ANY REASONABLE
ACCOUNTING LIKE THE TRUMP
LOYALISTS LEFT IN THE PLOT.
RICK PERRY, GORDON SONDLAND AND
SOMEONE THEY THOUGHT AT THE TIME
WAS IN ON THIS, CURT VOLCKER.
IN FACT, AT THE TIME THOSE THREE
REFER TO THEMSELVES AS, QUOTE,
THE THREE AMIGOS.
NOW, THAT’S THEIR LINGO.
THAT’S THEIR TERMINOLOGY.
I’M GUESSING SONDLAND WOULD BE
STEVE MARTIN, VOLCKER CLEARLY
MARTIN SHORT AND THAT LEAVES
PERRY AS CHEVY CHASE.
EMAIL CHATTER AND LINGO ASIDE,
THERE’S WAY MORE HERE BECAUSE
KENT IS A CURRENT HIGH-RANKING
STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL AND
THE STONEWALLING STRATEGY WOULD,
OF COURSE, APPLY TO HIM, RIGHT?
HE GOT ORDERS FROM THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION TO DEFY THIS VERY
REQUEST TO TALK TO THESE
IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATORS.
IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATORS. NOW STUCK BETWEEN THAT TRUMP
DIRECTIVE AND WHAT BECAME THIS
LAWFUL LAST-MINUTE SUBPOENA FROM
THE HOUSE, HE SPOKE.
THAT’S WHY THE STONEWALLING’S
NOT WORKING THIS WEEK.
AND THIS IS IMPORTANT.
HE’S NOT ALONE IN THAT.
WHEN YOU JUST COUNT UP WHAT’S
HAPPENING, FORMER AMBASSADOR
YOVANOVITCH STILL EMPLOYED AT
STATE BUT SHE REJECTED THE TRUMP
REQUESTS AND WE SAW HER MARCH IN
THERE COMPLYING WITH THE HOUSE
SUBPOENA AND GAVE BLISTERING
TESTIMONY FRIDAY ABOUT HOW THE
PRESIDENT YANKED HER FROM HER
POST.
POST. SAME FOR FIONA HILL.
SHE WAS TRUMPLE’S, OF COURSE,
TOP WHITE HOUSE ADVISER ON
RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.
PRETTY KEY STUFF.
WHILE SHE’S STILL NOT AN
EMPLOYEE, SHE ALSO GOT THE
REQUEST TO STOP OR WAIT.
AND I WANT TO BE CLEAR HERE AS
YOU LOOK AT THIS, THOSE ARE NOT
AUTOMATICALLY BANKRUPT REQUESTS.
WHEN A WHITE HOUSE ARGUES THAT
SOMEONE IS A TOP ADVISER TO THE
PRESIDENT AND SAYS THERE ARE
ISSUES OF EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE,
WHICH IS WHAT THEY CLAIMED HERE,
IN NORMAL ADMINISTRATIONS WHEN A
WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT IT BUYS
YOU TIME IMMEDIATELY.
IF NOT WIPING OUT THE ENTIRE
DEPOSITION.
DEPOSITION. AND A LOT OF DIPLOMATS ERR ON
THE SIDE OF RESPECTING THOSE
KINDS OF REQUESTS FROM A SITTING
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. MOST OF THESE DIPLOMATS ARE
CAREER PUBLIC SERVANTS AND THEY
ARE PROUDLY CAUTIOUS.
BUT THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES.
MS. HILL APPARENTLY SAW WHERE
THIS WAS HEADED AND MADE HER
CHOICE.
CHOICE. SHE HAD HER LAWYERS CLAP BACK AT
THE WHITE HOUSE, REJECTING ANY
ARGUMENT THAT EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE WOULD APPLY TO THE
VERY THINGS THAT SHE WAS GOING
TO DISCUSS AND POINTEDLY NOTING
THAT EVEN IF EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE
COULD APPLY, WHICH AS I
MENTIONED IN NORMAL TIMES IT
COULD, SHE WENT TO THE HEART OF
THE ISSUE AND SAID THAT
PRIVILEGE WOULD STILL, QUOTE,
DISAPPEAR ALTOGETHER WHEN
THERE’S ANY REASON TO BELIEVE
GOVERNMENT MISCONDUCT OCCURRED.
ADDING, PRIOR PRESIDENTS HAVE
LARGELY AGREED THAT EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE OPERATES DIFFERENTLY
IN THE CONTEXT OF AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. WOW.
WOW. THAT IS SPOKEN LIKE SOMEONE MORE
CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING THEIR
EVIDENCE BEFORE THE IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY THAN TRYING TO HOLD ON
TO A GOVERNMENT CAREER.
HILL’S DEPOSITION TOOK PLACE
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, BUT EVEN
FROM THE LITTLE THAT WE GOT
THROUGH REPORTING ABOUT WHAT SHE
SAID, IT IS STILL REVERBERATING
ALL ACROSS WASHINGTON.
IF HER LAWYER’S LETTER WAS
ABNORMAL AND TOUGH, HER ACTUAL
TESTIMONY BLEW THE ROOF OFF.
AND THIS IS WHERE WE GET TO THE
TALK OF GIULIANI AS A WALKING
HAND GRENADE, PITCHING A
CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY INSIDE THE
WHITE HOUSE.
WHITE HOUSE. AGAIN, THEIR WORDS.
"NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED OUT AS
FOLLOWS.
FOLLOWS. LAST SUMMER TRUMP’S THEN
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JOHN
BOLTON GOT INTO A TENSE EXCHANGE
WITH GORDON SONDLAND, THE TRUMP
DONOR TURNED AMBASSADOR TO THE
EU, WHO WAS WORKING WITH RUDOLPH
GIULIANI, THE PRESIDENT’S
PERSONAL LAWYER, TO PRESS
UKRAINE TO INVESTIGATE DEMOCRATS
ACCORDING TO THREE PEOPLE WHO
HEARD THE TESTIMONY FROM MS.
HILL.
HILL. HILL TESTIFIED THAT MR. BOLTON
TOLD HER TO NOTIFY THE CHIEF
LAWYER FOR THE NSC ABOUT A ROGUE
EFFORT BY SONDLAND, GIULIANI AND
MULVANEY, OF COURSE, CHIEF OF
STAFF.
STAFF. THE ROGUE EFFORT REPORTEDLY
BLURTED OUT BY SONDLAND AT A
WHITE HOUSE MEETING WITH
UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS IN WHICH
SONDLAND TOLD THEM THE NEW
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT COULD SECURE
A MEETING WITH TRUMP IF, LOOK AT
THIS, IF UKRAINE OPENED UP THE
INVESTIGATIONS THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS SEEKING.
WAS SEEKING. BOLTON TOLD HILL TO TELL THE
WHITE HOUSE LAWYERS, QUOTE, I’M
NOT PART OF WHATEVER DRUG DEAL
SONDLAND/MULVANEY ARE COOKING UP
AND FURTHER WENT ON, QUOTE,
GIULIANI IS A HAND GRENADE WHO
IS GOING TO BLOW EVERYBODY UP.
HILL TOLD LAWMAKERS SHE
CONSIDERED WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO
BE A CLEAR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE
RISK TO THE COUNTRY, ACCORDING
TO NBC REPORTING.
COOKING UP A DRUG DEAL.
IT’S NOT EVERY DAY THAT JOHN
BOLTON SOUNDS LIKE HE’S QUOTING
MYGOS IN THE KITCHEN, WRIST
TWISTING LIKE IT’S STIR-FRY, A
REFERENCE TO TWISTING WHILE ONE
COOKS COCAINE.
COOKS COCAINE. BUT MR. BOLTON, A YALE EDUCATED
LAWYER, WAS TRYING TO BE AS
DRAMATIC AND CLEAR AS POSSIBLE
TO HIS OWN TRUMP COLLEAGUES THAT
HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT A CRIME
HERE.
HERE. AND FOR ALL THE RHETORIC, LET’S
BE CLEAR, HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT A
CRIME FAR WORSE THAN DRUG
DEALING.
DEALING. THAT’S WHY HE ORDERED THE TOP
NATIONAL SECURITY LAWYER BE
BROUGHT IN.
BROUGHT IN. NOW, BIG PICTURE THESE
WITNESSES, THIS EVIDENCE, IT’S
ALSO GIVING THESE IMPEACHMENT
COMMITTEES BRAND-NEW LEADS TO
FOLLOW AS CONGRESS RETURNS TO
SESSION.
SESSION. LAWMAKERS NOW CONSIDERING
WHETHER TO CALL IN, OF COURSE,
MR. BOLTON AS A WITNESS.
SO THEY CAN GET HIS OWN WORDS
THAT HAVE BEEN MEMORIALIZED AND
THAT ARE SO DAMNING ABOUT THE
HAND GRENADE AND THE DRUG DEAL.
THEN THERE IS, OF COURSE, MR.
SONDLAND.
SONDLAND. HE’S SLATED TO TESTIFY ON
THURSDAY.
THURSDAY. AND THERE ARE REPORTS ALREADY
THAT HE’S PLANNING TO SAY -- TO
SAY TO THE CONGRESS UNDER
PENALTY OF PERJURY THAT TRUMP
TOLD HIM DIRECTLY THERE WAS NO
QUID PRO QUO WITH UKRAINE,
EXCHANGING SAY MILITARY AID FOR
DIRT ON BIDEN, BUT SONDLAND
QUICK TO EMPHASIZE HE DOESN’T
KNOW WHETHER THAT’S TRUE.
HE DOESN’T KNOW WHETHER THE
PRESIDENT WAS LYING.
HE’S DISTANCING HIMSELF FROM
THAT ONE WRITTEN DEFENSE.
AND WHILE THE PENTAGON AND THE
OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT BUDGET ARE
REFUSING TO COMPLY WITH SOME OF
THESE SUBPOENAS, THE HOUSE
COMMITTEES EXPANDING THEIR
WITNESS LISTS DEEP INTO THOSE
DEPARTMENTS WHICH ALLEGE THAT
THE MILITARY AID QUID PRO QUO
THEORY IS A FOCUS.
THEY’VE ASKED TWO PENTAGON
OFFICIALS TO TESTIFY.
ONE SCHEDULED TO APPEAR FRIDAY.
THEY’RE ALSO ASKING FOR TRUMP’S
BUDGET DIRECTOR TO APPEAR.
SO THIS IS ALL ABOUT WHAT MR.
BOLTON AND THESE OTHER WITNESSES
HAVE SAID THEY SAW GOING ON IN
REAL TIME, AND THE CONGRESS IS
SAYING FORGET YOUR STONEWALLING,
AS ADAM SCHIFF SAID TONIGHT, THE
WITNESSES ARE STILL COMING IN
AND AT A FURIOUS PACE.
THERE IS A LOT HAPPENING ON THE
HILL.
HILL. I’M THRILLED THAT WE HAVE KYLE
CHENEY, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER
FOR POLITICO HERE WHO HAS BEEN
ALL OVER THIS.
GOOD EVENING ON A BUSY NIGHT.
THANKS FOR MAKING TIME FOR US.
>> GREAT TO BE HERE, ARI.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. AS WE SEE THESE WITNESSES COME
FORWARD, INCLUDING MR. KENT FROM
THE STATE DEPARTMENT TODAY,
WE’RE ALSO SEEING THE
STONEWALLING FROM GIULIANI AND
SOME OF THE OTHER ENTITIES THAT
WE MENTIONED.
WE MENTIONED. WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THIS AND
THE EVIDENCE COMING FORWARD
THROUGH THE COOPERATIVE
WITNESSES, WHAT DOES THAT TELL
YOU AND IS THAT ADVANCING THE
BALL ENOUGH?
BALL ENOUGH? >> I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF
DEMOCRATS IN PARTICULAR WHO SAY
THEY’VE ALREADY GOT ENOUGH
EVIDENCE.
EVIDENCE. THEY CAN MOVE TO THE FLOOR WITH
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT TODAY IF
THEY WANT TO.
I THINK THE CONUNDRUM THEY HAVE
NOW IS HOW MUCH EVIDENCE DO WE
NEED AND IS THERE A POINT WHERE
WE’VE ACTUALLY CROSSED A LINE
WHERE WE HAVE ENOUGH TO SAY,
LOOK, THIS COULD TAKE US YEARS
TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF EVERY
SINGLE LEAD THAT WE HAVE THAT’S
EMERGING, SO SHOULD WE PUT A LID
ON IT AND ACTUALLY DRAFT
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT BASED ON
WHAT WE KNOW?
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT SOUNDS LIKE
JOHN BOLTON SEEING AROUND THE
CORNER, PERHAPS EARLIER THAN
OTHER INDIVIDUALS THERE.
WE DON’T KNOW ALL THE DETAILS
AROUND HIS DEPARTURE.
HE AND THE PRESIDENT GOT INTO A
WAR OF WHO WAS TELLING THE TRUTH
ABOUT JUST THAT ISSUE.
THIS IS A MORE IMPORTANT ONE.
DOES YOUR REPORTING AND WHAT
YOU’RE HEARING ON THE HILL
SUGGEST THAT MR. BOLTON THOUGHT
IT’S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME
BEFORE THIS ALL, TO QUOTE HIM,
BLOWS UP?
BLOWS UP? >> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.
AND I THINK THE IMPORTANCE OF
FIONA HILL’S TESTIMONY IS THAT
SHE PLACED JOHN BOLTON AT THE
CENTER OF THIS CONTROVERSY.
SHE PUTS IT FOR THE FIRST TIME
AT A LEVEL THAT’S NOT JUST
SENIOR AMBASSADORS, BUT PEOPLE
IN THE PRESIDENT’S INNER CIRCLE
REALLY HAVING PERSONAL, YOU
KNOW, PERSONAL QUALMS ABOUT
WHAT’S HAPPENING HERE AND
RAISING CONCERNS TO A NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL LAWYER.
I MEAN, SHE EXPANDED WHAT WAS
ALREADY A REALLY DEVASTATING
SCANDAL FOR THE WHITE HOUSE TO
THE PEOPLE THAT WERE, YOU KNOW,
ONE DEGREE REMOVE FROM THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. SO IT GAVE THE HOUSE
INVESTIGATORS SO MANY MORE
AVENUES TO PURSUE AND BOLTON IS
ALMOST SURELY GOING TO GET
CALLED.
CALLED. >> YEAH, YOU SAY THAT SHE PLACED
HIM THERE.
HIM THERE. I DON’T KNOW IF YOU EVER PLAYED
THE BOARD GAME CLUE -- HAVE YOU?
>> OH, YES.
ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY. >> IT SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT LIKE
THAT.
THAT. MR. BOLTON IN THE OVAL OFFICE
WITH THE TELEPHONE.
YOU’RE PLACING DIFFERENT FIGURES
AND THEN ESPECIALLY IF THEY’RE
OUT OF GOVERNMENT, DO YOU EXPECT
HIM TO THEN HAVE TO TESTIFY?
BECAUSE THERE AREN’T A LOT OF
ARGUMENTS LEFT, AS WE’VE JUST
REPORTED, IF THEY’RE TALKING
ABOUT WHAT HE HIMSELF CALLED A
DRUG DEAL.
DRUG DEAL. >> WELL, WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS,
YOU KNOW, FIONA HILL AND, YOU
KNOW, MARIE YOVANOVITCH HAVE
LAID OUT A TEMPLATE FOR
OFFICIALS WHO WANT TO TESTIFY TO
ESSENTIALLY OVERRIDE THE WHITE
HOUSE, THE STATE DEPARTMENT,
TRYING TO GET THEM TO STOP.
AND SO WHERE IN THE PAST
WITNESSES WHO HAVE BEEN
UNWILLING HAVE USED THAT AS A
SHIELD, WITNESSES WHO ARE REALLY
MOTIVATED TO TALK TO CONGRESS
CAN NOW LOOK TO WHAT THEY’VE
DONE AND SAY, WELL, YOU CAN TRY
TO STOP ME, BUT I HAVE AWAY
AROUND THAT AND I HAVE A WAY TO
AT LEAST GET THE PERTINENT
INFORMATION TO THE IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY TO LAWMAKERS WHO WILL DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> WHAT WILL BE IMPORTANT TO
HEAR FROM MR. SONDLAND?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SO MUCH
OF HIS TESTIMONY HAS BEEN
PREVIEWED IN NEWS REPORTS.
HE’S GOING TO SUGGEST
ESSENTIALLY, IF THE REPORTS ARE
CREDIBILITY, THERE WAS A QUID
PRO QUO.
PRO QUO. IN FACT, HE’LL SAY APPARENTLY IT
WAS NOT A CORRUPT QUID PRO QUO,
BUT THAT’S NOT REALLY UP TO HIM
TO DECIDE.
TO DECIDE. AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, SORT OF
PUT -- RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
NARRATIVE THAT THE WHITE HOUSE
HAS BEEN PUTTING OUT THERE
PARTLY BASED ON SONDLAND’S OWN
TEXT MESSAGES.
TEXT MESSAGES. SO HE’S GOING TO SORT OF TAKE
AWAY THE BLUDGEON THE WHITE
HOUSE HAS BEEN USING TO DEFEND
AGAINST THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS DOING SOMETHING
CORRUPT.
CORRUPT. >> POLITICO’S KYLE CHENEY, THANK
YOU SO MUCH.
THIS IS QUITE A STORY.
>> GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> APPRECIATE YOU, SIR.
>>> THIS IS A BUSY NEWS NIGHT.
UP AHEAD WE’RE GOING TO SPEAK
TO, AS I SAID, TWO HOUSE
COMMITTEE MEMBERS WHO WERE THERE