As of July, 2020, I'm a new road bike rider.
Thanks to the joys of 2020 has been super fun to translate my long
distance running fitness, into cycling.
And as a young ish petite woman, I just love that I am now easily
passing tall male riders on the road.
I have many questions and feel that we could do a full podcast together.
So first of all, way to go, Holly, uh, that's awesome.
Just smashing egos left and right.
Um, that's that's cool.
Uh, then you say, uh, however to keep it functional, I downloaded
trainer road and have been doing it.
RPE based workouts is I don't have a power meter or indoor trainer, which is
actually something that we probably don't talk enough a lot or talk about enough.
If you don't have an indoor trainer indoor training, isn't feasible,
like you're in an apartment and it would just be too loud, right.
Or any number of different things.
And you don't have a power meter.
You can still follow your training plan.
With RPE based, uh, power targets.
So you won't have, you know, do X Watts instead.
It'll be do seven out of 10 for this amount of time.
Uh, you'll still get, uh, uh, quality training experience right now.
If you want to step it up even more, then you can get power
measurement and everything else, but so kudos Holly on doing that.
That's awesome.
She says, I was just promoted into leadership of my company and
suspect that my outdoor training will be compromised for awhile.
Congratulations.
She says, so thinking of going in for an indoor trainer.
So first, do you have any trainer gear, recommendations and best
practices I should be cognizant of?
And then second question I've been dying to ask.
I have two large active dogs that I need to walk for at least 90 minutes
every day, including rest days.
This is part of my activity baseline for five years.
However, I have heard you all talk about the need to really rest on rest days.
So am I disrupting my recovery?
Thanks so much for your podcast and product.
It has really helped me jump into this sport, which I'm absolutely
loving cheers from Holly.
So, uh, equipment levels first, and we've talked about this plenty of
times before, but, uh, virtual power, power meter and smart trainer are
usually kind of like the three tiers.
They that you can kind of jump into getting started with training with power.
Uh, Nate, can you describe what virtual power is for you?
Yeah.
Virtual power.
So back in the day, like 2010, when I started coding this, maybe.
Launched in 2011.
Uh, not everyone had power, meters, power, meters were expensive back then.
I don't know if you remember, like, it was easy to have like a $2,000 powered meter.
And, uh, what we did is we took all the trainers that we could get our hands on in
the market and we put a power meter and we had somebody ride at different wattages.
And that did is we could.
Develop a power curve saying at this certain speed, this is the
wattage that you would get out.
And what happened is you, you, you develop this curve, but then the, um,
where that lands on the Y access kind of like the offset of the y-axis would be
different based on rolling resistance, but rolling resistance is pretty stable.
So what this allows us to do with virtual power is if you keep your
tire pressure the same and the tension of the drum on the tire.
We could develop this curve where you would get repeatable
power numbers, because we're not measuring the rolling resistance.
And that can change a lot with, by how tight it is.
It's not the same as a power meter where it'd be, um, accurate, but it could still
be precise as every time you did it.
It was the same.
So let's say it would put Pete up.
Maybe let's say.
250 Watts instead of three 50.
But if people was always 250 and he went in and he could then
progress, that would be great.
It just, you can't compare it to other people and you get a kind of an ego hit.
Usually if you go from virtual power to a power mural boost, I've
seen ways where you thought you were really strong and then you're
like, Oh shoot, I'm not strong.
So that's spiritual power, but it's cheap.
You just get a speed sensor.
So like a $20 speed sensor rather than a $2,500 power meter.
Yup.
And then I'd say power meter is probably, if you had to pick power
meter between smart trainer, I probably pick power meter, but what do you,
what say you, uh, Ivy on that one?
Well, I think that Holly just doesn't want to get in a situation where, I
mean, I, it sounds like with their promotion, they're still gonna want
to write outside, but maybe just less.
But you just don't want to get in a situation where like you have two sets
of workouts and like one of them is missing the data that you wish you had.
And that can really, I know for me, that has impeded
workouts at times when, like, I.
In one setup, I have data and have information to go off of.
And the other writing RPE, it's hard to like hit the same marks and be motivated.
So I would recommend for a power meter getting something that would give you
like the most bang for your buck, that you can have both indoors and outdoors.
So it might not be a smart trainer.
It may be, you know, and Holly may have two bikes, like two setups, like something
that stays on the trainer and like stays inside and something else that's outside.
So having something that maybe can.
Be used in both scenarios would be most effective for, for
training and for peace of mind.
And.
Yeah.
So I really liked those new garment pedals, because like you said, the
versatility, I know that like Favero SEOs does exists and that sort of thing,
but being able to swap effectively, you could swap that those pedals from road,
even over to mountain bike or a cross bike or gravel bike or anything like
that, versatility really does matter because once you have power once, like
you don't want to ride without it, like, I have power on my Enduro bike, and
honestly I'm never going out and doing structured workouts on my Enduro bike.
But I feel like I do want to know the impact of that ride after I've
done it right on like, what's how, what's the impact on my training
and without power I can guess.
And I can probably get close, but it's just nice peace of mind to have.
Yeah.
So for a Holly, um, for adaptive training that having the power meter on both
will be better, but it really depends.
So if you're like a two workout a week on the weekdays, and then I'm just going,
gonna ride for fun with my friends.
You don't really need a power beyond the situation, but if you're
saying I'm going to mix my workout, some indoor, some outdoor, then
I would go for the power meter.
But if it's just casual outside, and there's no
sounds like Holly, like roll call when she goes
outside, she's taking names, calling
its power meter
for sure.
Then if you go smart trainer, the other option there.
Once again, you only have power inside, and this is something that we've
said plenty of times, and I feel like it's, it's good to explain it though.
If you're going to go smart trainer, I feel like it's, if you're going
to spend that money, in other words, I feel like it's best to get one of
the top tier trainers, because, so there's two things with the trainer.
There's.
That how the trainer actually works.
And in other words, how it feels when you're pedaling,
like, is there resistance?
Is it, does it feel smooth?
It doesn't feel like you're peddling through chunky peanut butter all the time.
Does it ramp up in a really strange way that just feels
completely unrealistic and foreign.
So then when you get out on the road, it feels strange or does it represent.
What you feel when you're on the road.
And this is a good example of people are cost constrained and
looking for an indoor trainer.
I usually push them toward the kinetic road machine because it
just feels so good in that regard.
It's like one of the best trainers, right?
If it doesn't have resistance control, but you as a rider have
built in resistance control as well.
It's just, you adjust your cadence and shift heres right.
And he can hit your targets.
So a lot of the time, a lower end smart trainer it's you have resistance control,
but it's paired to a trainer that doesn't perform as well in terms of how it feels.
So then you'll have smart control, but it's always on kind of
like a marginalized experience.
So that's why we usually recommend if you're going to get smart
trainer, you go for that top tier.
So we're talking like, you know, the.
The top one from tax, like the tax Neo top one from saaris the H three, that
sorta thing, like that level is what you want to be looking at with those, um,
Pete, what, what, what say you on that?
You deal with a lot of devices in particular with it?
Yeah, I
would say, uh, one of the interesting things about, uh,
trainers is that they always make sacrifices to make them cost less.
I mean, just as a, from a basic business standpoint.
So you have to remember that, that they're making some sort of sacrifice to make it.
At a lower price point.
And generally speaking, everything feels better at the top end, which is a lot.
But, uh, one of the final things that is really important to do is
there's a lot of kind of trainer specific, um, Information that you
should do to optimize your experience.
So just putting your bike on and clicking through the gears and going works.
But if you, if you kind of optimize your setup and if, uh, actually, if you go
to the help center on trainer road and look up your trainer, there's a huge
article on all the best practices you should do, which gear you should be in.
Um, how to set everything up when the, when the.
Calibration, you know, everything that you need to know to make
your experience much better.
So no matter what train you're on, definitely do that.
And you'll be surprised at how it can change your experience.
So I was just at a Kia.
And I bought some stuff and then it broke like two weeks later, but it just
feels, no, my dad's actually like Swedish and we get real Swedish meatballs.
It's like, it's like taco bell, right.
There's a place
for taco bell.
and it's like, I don't go there just for that.
Um, but it's so the Akia stuff's nice, but after a while you're like,
Oh, I wish I have to buy it again.
Right.
And if you are the type of person who you're like, this is I'm going to
be on this trainer every day, right?
For an hour or two hours or mealtimes times a week.
This is a huge part of my life.
And I really want to, um, do this and have a good experience.
I would save up the extra two or 300 to get that extra level.
Another tip I love, unless it's the road machine is really good,
but if you're going to get a smart trainer, the wheel off.
Where you get to put the chain on it, you will save a tire.
Like you got to think about that.
The tire that gets worn down on a, uh, on one.
That's not that, that, that is a cost for sure.
And that will then after you use it for a couple of years, that's a
good $200 of tires that you could eat through easy, um, or more.
And then, or you could get like a, a special wheel with one of the orange,
you know, the, the trainer tire tires.
But then that's also more money and more setup and you have
to change it all the time.
Um, that's what I think.
And I'm not saying all the other trainers are going to break or something, but
there is a difference as Pete said, It's probably the trainer companies
love is saying this too, because there's probably more margin on the higher
trainers, your most expensive thing.
Yeah,
it's
great.
Yeah.
And the other benefit that you get with the wheel off ones on the higher
end models in particular is you get more flexibility with through axles.
Or with normal road axles.
If you have an older bike that you want to put on there and even like
drive train stuff, whereas you could maybe swap the free hubs.
So you could run like a swam XD driver, maybe this new, new Shimano,
micro spline drivers, something like that might not be accessible on a
lower end smart trainer as well.
So there's a lot of things to keep in mind.
I have to say
this too, because Ivy is going to get a excuse question, a ton.
Cause they don't want to want to read is just keep your chain line straight.
Um, I like to be in a big gear on the trainer.
If you're in a small gear and you have a lower speed, the trainer will
actually have an easier time of like adjusting the power very, very quickly.
I find with the new power match, that's not even an issue.
Sure.
Like a big 53, 11 or 12, nine.
I liked them.
The big, the high inertia field.
Um, and then, uh, after the, if you do not have a power meter after
the warmup, then do your spin down.
Cause you want your trainer to warm up.
If you do have a power meter, you do not need to, uh, do a spin
down of your trainer if you're using parametric by default.
Cause that's because your power meter drives it.
Um, and then for your power meter, you can zero that before you get on and
that's enough for the whole ride, you don't have to worry about anything else.
Boom, no notes needed Pete.
Boom.
I'm very proud.
You would have had so many questions.
I have it, you know it
for sure.
Let's get into your question about recovery.
Pete, you have, uh, you have Nova your pup and you're always taking her
out for walks and everything else.
Uh, or dog, I should say.
She's not a puppy anymore.
Um, how do you manage that?
Because you take her out regularly for walks.
But then training work, busy
life.
Yeah.
I think it's enjoyable in the sense that it is not training
or work or regular life things.
So there's something to be said for a recovery walk that is more
for you or the dog or whoever.
Um, so that, that shouldn't be discounted.
Um, but I think for most people, unless you're really at the high end of your
total stress that you can handle as a person, um, I would say a dog Walker,
isn't going to, um, Diminish your ability to train or tackle new things.
Um, so think about how, how you feel on a daily basis.
If you're barely struggling through your workouts and every time you
get up, you feel lethargic and then you have to do a 90 minute dog walk.
I would say the dog walk may actually be impacting you.
Um, but if you feel pretty good most of the time, and you're
getting enjoyment and the dogs are getting enjoyment, I would say it's
totally valid and works really well.
Um, walking is, is a lot less stress on your body than you would think, especially
if you're used to doing it all the time.
A, you mentioned that you, you knew of like pro riders
that intentionally took walks.
So dog, they just said Fox it's like part of their, as part of their program, right?
Yeah.
A couple, um, world tour guys that I know, like even during stage races
and like grand tours, like every night take like a 30 minute walk, um,
because it's good to like get away from your team setting and like do
something different other than writing.
And there are a lot of like good cognitive benefits to.
10, just like.
Walking for a few minutes alone.
Um, but yeah, so it, it doesn't have to be taxing all the time, but on
the other side of this, um, it can be one of my like weird odd jobs during
pro road racing was being a dog.
Walker was, um, some days it was really like too much, like
too hard to do a 90 minute walk.
Like not a chance, no way after a hard workout.
And so one of my hacks was, um, Holly should get a, it.
You know, one of those like catapults stick on, so you just lean against
the fence and just, you know, take
zero effort.
Or if your dog is super well socialized, like I would take my dogs.
I walked to, um, a dog park and just like sit down and eat a sandwich and
recover and let the dogs get tired.
Ivy brings out the NormaTec boots to the dog park chair.
Yeah.
I was hoping for the treadmill.
not the same experience for a dog, sadly.
Yeah.
Um, I've found that I, my dogs admittedly get much longer walks
and much more frequent walks if it's during recovery weeks and off season,
like when it's, and if I was doing mid volume, I could manage more.
But as I'm doing high volume, that's taking up a whole lot
more of my available stress.
Space, so to speak as a result, that extra time on my legs and
everything else, I do feel it.
Uh, I don't want to feel it.
I want to just be able to spend all that time, walking the dogs, do all
that stuff, but I, I, I do feel it.
So, but, but the thing is, there's two sides of this.
Number one, if you're not used to walking your dogs for 90 minutes and
suddenly you start walking your dogs daily for 90 minutes, that will feel.
Like an increase in stress.
Now you mentioned Holly that this is like your baseline.
You've done this for years.
So you're probably used to that.
So the other end is then what Pete's talking about is.
How, like how full is the glass or is it already almost to the very brim so that
it's almost overflowing and 90 minute walk is going to have an impact, but if
you have some room before you fill up that glass of stress, so to speak, and
you're probably okay, Hey, I'm sorry.
I cut you off.
You were going to say something or you didn't.
Oh,
I mean, if that's the bedroom and then everyone cuts me off all the
time, because I always want to say something, but I trying to work on
not saying things as quickly, uh, Holly, absolutely walk your dogs five
years, 90 minutes for five years.
This is the think of this as a, uh, cortisol lowering event.
Like in the evening or in the morning, what it is, walk you relax
Cortez, like the stress in your body.
That's a huge toll on people as for recovery.
And again, that parasympathetic state of like, you can think about
your intention for the next day.
You could write things down as you walk and things come into your
brain because you're not, there's not like stimulus coming in, right.
You're with your dogs, you come back and you're really ready to relax.
And I don't think if you're adapted to it.
90 minutes every day for five years, it's no issue.
That's like me saying, should I really walk from my car to my office?
Like, I'm my stuff.
Like, I've been doing it for my lifetime, but it might be too much.
Um, I think you're going to be fine, Holly, and yeah, just, I think you would
be worse not doing actually, because then you would probably stress about your dogs.
Uh, you wouldn't have that like decompression time and you'd be too
focused, which we see all the time, right.
With, with people you get too tied up in the details like, Oh,
this is that's five more grams of fat than I wanted in this meal.
All my goodness, my whole thing's gone.
And the stress of that in worrying.
Is the thing that makes you slower, which is not that not the
action you're doing or not doing.
It's his stress that does it.
So don't worry, Holly, you are good.
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