ANALYSIS, WHICH FOUND THERE IS
NO CORRELATION NATIONALLY
BETWEEN SPENDING AND CRIME
RATES.
>> IN 2013 THE POLICE DEPARTMENT
IN CAMDEN, NEW JERSEY DISSOLVED
AND WAS REBUILT WITH A FOCUS ON
COMMUNITY POLICING.
JOINING ME NOW IS FORMER CAMDEN
POLICE CHIEF SCOTT THOMPSON.
SCOTT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
JOINING US.
HOW DID IT WORK?
>> SO, IN 2012, EVERY MEMBER OF
THE CAMDEN CITY POLICE
DEPARTMENT INCLUDING MYSELF WAS
FIRED.
I WAS A POLICE CHIEF PORE 20
YEARS, I HAD BEEN A POLICE
OFFICER FOR 20 YEARS, POLICE
CHIEF FOR FIVE.
MYSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE HAD TO
FILL OUT A 50-PAGE APPLICATION,
TAKE A PSYCHOLOGICAL, TAKE A
MENTAL -- THE PHYSICAL
CONDITIONING, INTERVIEW, THE
WHOLE NINE YARDS.
WE WERE ALL NEW EMPLOYEES.
THE OPPORTUNITY THAT THAT REALLY
PROVIDED FOR US WAS THE ABILITY
TO BUILD CULTURE AS OPPOSED TO
CHANGING IT.
SO IN THE PREVIOUS ORGANIZATION,
WE HAD VERY HIGH LEVELS OF
MISTRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY.
WE WERE IN A PUBLIC SAFETY
CRISIS, OUR CRIME RATES WERE
GREATER THAN THAT OF THIRD WORLD
COUNTRIES.
AND WE HAD A LABOR ORGANIZATION
THAT EVERY TIME WE TRIED TO
INSTITUTE A CHANGE FOR THE
POSITIVE, IT WOULD BE LITIGATED,
STALLED, AND IF IT DIDN’T HAVE A
PAY RAISE ATTACHED TO IT FOR THE
COPS, THEN IT ESSENTIALLY COULD
NOT COME TO FRUITION.
SO ALL OF THIS CAME TOGETHER.
THERE WAS A POLITICAL WILL FROM
THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF NEW
JERSEY TO THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT
LEADERSHIP TO THE CITY LEADER
SHIP TO TRY SOMETHING EXTREME.
WE STARTED OF.
WE CREATED A NEW POLICE FORCE.
WE CREATED A NEW POLICE FORCE
WHERE THE PHILOSOPHY WAS THE
EMPOWERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY
BEFORE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW.
WE WOULD BRING ON EVERY MEMBER
OF THE ORGANIZATION AND WE
WANTED THEM TO IDENTIFY MORE A
MEMBER OF THE PEACE CORPS THAN
BEING A SPECIAL FORCES OPERATOR.
AND THAT WE WOULD RECLAIM THE
CITY STREETS IN A MANNER IN
WHICH WE WERE EMPOWERING THE
PEOPLE SO THEY COULD RECLAIM IT
AS OPPOSED TO US MILITARIZING
THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND POLARIZING
THE COMMUNITY FURTHER.
>> HOW HAS THIS WORKED?
>> WE REDUCED MURDERS BY MORE
THAN 70%, WE REDUCED VIOLENT
CRIME BY 46%, WE WENT FROM A
DEPARTMENT THAT HAD THE HIGHEST
NUMBER OF EXCESSIVE FOR THE
COMPLAINTS IN THE STATE OF NEW
JERSEY TO HAVING A 95%
REDUCTION.
WE HAVE BODY CAMERAS ON ALL
OFFICERS.
WE INVEST IN TRAINING AND DEIGS
KA
DEESCALATION.
WE TELL OUR COPS IT’S OKAY TO
BACK UP.
WE MANDATE THEM BY POLICY TO
DEESCALATE SITUATIONS PRIOR TO
USING FORCE.
ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD
THAT’S KEY IN SIGNALING AND
EMPOWERING THE COMMUNITY, WE
WORKED WITH THE POLICE PROJECT
OF NYU LAW SCHOOL AND WE BROUGHT
IN THE ACLU OF NEW JERSEY, WE
BROUGHT IN OUR POLICE UNION, WE
BROUGHT IN THE COMMUNITY.
WE LET THEM ALL HAVE A VOICE IN
SHAPING AND FRAMING OUR USE OF
FORCE POLICY AND HOW WE WOULD
USE FORCE IN SITUATIONS.
I THINK THAT WAS TREMENDOUSLY
EMPOWERING.
IT SHOWED LEGITIMACY TO THE
COMMUNITY, AND THE BYPRODUCT OF
THAT IS WHEN WE HAVE REALLY
TENSE AND CRITICAL SITUATIONS
LIKE WE SEE NOW ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, CAMDEN IS RE MAINING IN
CALM.
>> DO YOU THINK THIS COULD WORK
IN OTHER CITIES?
>> YOU KNOW, ANYTHING IS
POSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW, ONE THING I KNOW IN
YOU’RE EXTREMELY CHALLENGED
CITIES IS THAT THE PEOPLE ARE
RESILIENT.
USUALLY THE IMPEDESTRIANDVSAEDES
OCCURRING IS NOT THE PEOPLE,
IT’S THE POLITICS,
BUREAUCRACIES, THE INSTITUTIONS
INVOLVED.
THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS
DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND
OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A
DIFFERENT RESULT.
I THINK WHAT A LOT OF CITIES
NEED TO FIND THEMSELVESES IN
THIS SITUATION TO ANSWER THE
QUESTION IS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO
DO DIFFERENTLY?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO APPROACH
THIS DIFFERENTLY?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO REALLY TRY
TO GET TO THE ROOT CAUSE ISSUES
OF WHAT IS LEADING TO DISORDER
AND CRIME BECAUSE WHAT I’VE
LEARNED AND IN A PLACE
PARTICULARLY LIKE CAMDEN AND MY
EXPERIENCES IS THAT A TICKET
BOOK, A SERVICE REVOLVER AND A
PAIR OF HANDCUFFS REALLY IS NOT
THE SOLUTION TO MOST OF THESE
PROBLEMS THAT ARE VEXING OUR
INNER CITIES.
>> YOU MENTIONED THE POLICE
UNION A SECOND AGO.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT REFORM IN
POLICE DEPARTMENTS, THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF OBSTACLES, BUT ALSO
ONE OF THE BIGGEST OBSTACLES IS
THE POLICE UNION.
BY DISBANDING THE CAMDEN POLICE
DEPARTMENT, WHAT HAPPENED WITH
THE UNION?
>> WELL, EVERYBODY WAS
TERMINATED INCLUDING MYSELF.
THE UNION -- THEY WERE -- THAT
WAS GONE AS WELL.
THE NEW ORGANIZATION, THE STATE
OF NEW JERSEY IS A STATE WHEREIN
THE LABOR LAWS ALLOW PEOPLE TO
ORGANIZE.
THE NEW ORGANIZATION, THEY DID
ORGANIZE AND FORM A UNION.
IT WAS THE SAME UNION.
THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE
BUT UNDER DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT’S NOT ALL
UNIONS ARE BAD.
IT’S OFTENTIMES YOU’LL FIND
ROGUE INDIVIDUAL LEADERSHIP.
LOOK, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE IN SOME
OF THESE LABOR ORGANIZATIONS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY THEY’RE NOT
NECESSARILY REFLECTIVE OF THE
DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE ORGANIZATION
ITSELF OR THE COMMUNITY IN WHICH
THEY’RE POLICING.
OFTENTIMES THAT’S AN UNDERLYING
ISSUE AS WELL.
>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO
ARE CONCERNED ABOUT NOT BEING
ABLE TO GET A POLICE OFFICER WHEN THEY NEED ONE?
WHEN THEY NEED ONE?
MIGHT NOT TRUST THE IDEA OF A
COMMUNITY GROUP COMING TO PATROL
THEIR STREETS OR MIGHT NOT TRUST
THE IDEA OF A SOCIAL WORKER
DOING WELLNESS CHECKS, THEY FEEL
THEY NEED A POLICE OFFICER THERE
TO STAY SAFE.
>> THE ISSUE IS NOT WHETHER THE
POLICE ARE THERE OR NOT.
I THINK THE POLICE SHOULD ALWAYS
HAVE SOME TYPE OF ROLE FOR A
PRESENCE FOR READINESS.
THE ISSUE COMES IN WHEN WE HAVE
THE EXPECTATION OF THE OFFICER
WHO IS ILL-EQUIPPED,
UNDERTRAINED, AND NOT EDUCATED
TO HANDLE SOME OF THESE
SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE WITH
Ph.D.s AND A SPECIALTY IN THAT DISCIPLINE HAVE FULLY BEEN ABLE
DISCIPLINE HAVE FULLY BEEN ABLE
TO ADDRESS AS WELL.
I DON’T THINK GETTING RID OF
POLICE IS THE ANSWER.
I DON’T SEE HOW WE CAN DO THAT.
YOU STILL NEED POLICE TO
INTERSECT WITH REALLY BAD PEOPLE
DOING REALLY BAD THINGS.
BUT IT IS NOT UNREASONABLE TO
SAY THAT SOCIETY WOULD BE BETTER
OFF IF WE STOPPED PUTTING THE
EXPECTATION AND POLITICALLY
DELEGATING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
DEALING WITH MENTAL ILLNESS,
DEALING WITH HOMELESSNESS,
DEALING WITH ADDICTION TO A
22-YEAR-OLD THAT JUST GOT OUT OF
THE ACADEMY AND HAS A HIGH
SCHOOL DIPLOMA AND EXPECT THEM
TO FIGURE IT OUT WITH A PISTOL,
A PAIR OF HANDCUFFS AND A TICKET
BOOK.
>> YEAH.
SCOTT THOMPSON, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR COMING ON AND SHARING
THIS.
IT IS A FASCINATING DISCUSSION