>> NOW LET'S HEAR FROM SOMEONE
WHO RECENTLY LEFT UKRAINE.
SOMEONE WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO
ON THIS PROGRAM DAYS AFTER
RUSSIAN FORCES BEGAN THEIR
ATTACK. WE SPOKE TO TERRELL
JERMAINE STARR, A JOURNALIST
IN KIEV. FOR EVERYDAY PEOPLE.
HOW ARE THEY DECIDING WHETHER
TO STAY OR TO GO.
>> BEARS WON THE OTHER
RESOURCES TO GO. I MEAN, YOU
KNOW, BEING ABLE TO LEAVE THE
COUNTRY, MAKING SURE THAT YOU
HAVE THE PROPER DOCUMENTS TO
GO. I'M GOING SOMEPLACE AND
AND BE BEING ABLE TO PAY FOR A
EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE THE
LUXURY OF DOING THAT. PEOPLE
DIE TO DEFEND THEIR DEMOCRACY
HERE AND THEY DON'T WANT TO
FEEL LIKE THEY'RE JUST BEING
PUSHED. THEIR LAND BECAUSE
PEOPLE WANT TO BE A BUILDING.
>> LET'S THROW JERMAINE STAR.
HE'S A SENIOR NONRESIDENT
FELLOW AT THE EURASIA CENTER
WITH THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL HOST
OF THE PODCAST LIKE DIPLOMATS
AND HE JOINS US HERE IN
STUDIO. LIST ARE WELCOME THANK
YOU. SO YOU'RE LIKE 24 HOURS
BACK IN THE YOU DO
>> MY MIND. AND MY BODY IS
STILL IN THE COUNTRY TO BE
QUITE HONEST WITH YOU. AND I
MISS MY FRIENDS, BUT I REALLY
NEED TO COME BACK TO. I'M KIND
RECALIBRATE MY MIND. 5 STILL
MISTER COUNTRY. I'M STILL
GETTING USED TO BEING HERE IN
THE STATES. WHAT DO YOU MISS
OR DO I MISS. WELL, YOU KNOW,
IT'S NOT ABOUT SO MUCH, BUT
WITHOUT MISSES SO MUCH GOING
ON. YOU STORM USED TO
EXPLOSIONS. AND SO NOW I'M IN
NEW YORK CITY, WHICH IS LEFT,
WHICH IS ALREADY LOUD AND YOU
MAY WANT OUT QUITE THAT LOUD.
AND THEN ALSO YOU HEAR JUST
SUDDEN SOUNDS. AND IT JUST
KIND BRINGS BACK SOME TYPE OF
MEMORY OF YOU BEING BACK HERE
SOMETIME EXPLOSION BECAUSE
ADDITION TO SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. BUT IT'S NOT SO MUCH I
MEAN. I MISS MY FRIENDS. I WAS
THE MOST. THEY'RE JUST SOUNDS.
I'M GETTING THAT I'M GETTING
USED TO NOT HEAR IT.
>> YOU SAID THAT YOU WILL BE
BEFORE WE TO SHOW THAT YOU
MEANT TO BE IN UKRAINE FOR
LIKE 3 WEEKS RHETT AND YOU
ENDED UP BEING THERE FOR 3
MONTHS. SO WHEN YOU WERE
THERE, DID YOU HAVE AN INKLING
THAT SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN
THAT WOULD KEEP YOU THERE
LONGER LIKE HOW MUCH OF WHAT'S
TRANSPIRED DID YOU SEE COMING
AND HOW MUCH DID YOU NOT
ABSOLUTELY. SO I WAS IN
GEORGIA IN 2008 WHEN THE
RUSSIANS ATTACKED THERE. SO
HERE UKRAINE. I KNEW THAT
THERE WAS A PRETEXT. THERE WAS
A HISTORY OF I'M MAKING THESE
TYPES OF DECISIONS. AND SO I
FIGURED THAT THERE WAS A
STRONG POSSIBILITY THAT THE
BRIDGE WOULD TAKE PLACE NOT
DECIDE TO STAY AFTER THAT
WOULD BE USED FOR COLLECT THE
STORIES TO KNOW WHAT THOSE
STORIES WOULD BE. DIDN'T KNOW
THE OUTCOME TO BE WHAT IS MY
FIRST TIME IN THE COUNTRY FROM
A JUROR WAS IN ACTUALLY
GETTING INFORMATION. AND SO.
>> YOU KNOW, LISTEN FOR THIS
FOR A CAPSULE LIKE THAT LIVE.
SHE WAS FROM MY NEIGHBORHOOD
WHERE BUILDINGS WERE HIT.
BUYER, DIRECT YOU KNOW,
MISSILE STRIKES. I HAVE
COVERED PEOPLE WERE LEAVING
THE COUNTRY WORKED WITH A
DEFENSE CAPTURING THEIR
WORKING WITH. THEY DIDN'T MISS
A THAT THE MISSILE STRIKE BY A
COUPLE 100 METERS. A LOT OF
THINGS THAT I KNEW SOMETHING
WOULD HAPPEN BUT NOT WITHOUT
DISCUSS YOU. WE JUST SHOW THAT
PICTURE OF YOU PUTTING ON
HELMET THAT SIT WITH SOME OF
YOUR NEW DAILY WHERE YOU
SHARED A LOT OF IMAGES FROM
THE GROUND AFTER SOME OF THE.
>> APPARENT RUSSIAN AIRSTRIKES
OF ONE TWEET YEAR-OLD WHAT
KILLS MANY FOLKS IN MISSILE
STRIKES ISN'T THE HIT ITSELF
BUT THE SHRAPNEL, MANY CARS
ARE CUT UP LIKE SWISS CHEESE.
ANOTHER VIDEO. YOU TWEETED YOU
WERE JUST WROTE, THANK GOD
THERE WERE NO FATALITIES AT
THIS BROVARY STRIKE. TALK
ABOUT WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM
BEING ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE
THAT MAYBE IS HARDER TO SEE
JUST FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE
WATCHING IT HERE IN THE
DEPENDING ON YOU ARE JUST THE
DAY-TO-DAY OF JUST SURVIVING
KNOW IF YOU'RE MARIO OR IF
YOU'RE IN AND A FOR EXAMPLE,
WHERE THE CITIES OF BEING
DEMOLISHED, THEN YOU'RE JUST
FOR, YOU KNOW, THAT IS KIND OF
LIKE THE LOTTERY. ALMOST AS A
FRIEND OF MINE DESCRIBED, YOU
KNOW, THE MISSILE CAN HIT IS A
STRONG CHANCE THAT A MISSILE.
YOUR BUILDING. YOU KNOW, YOU
CAN LIKELY WON'T. THE CHANCE
THAT ONE OF THOSE MISSILES
COULD HIT YOU VERY HIGH
POSSIBILITY. BUT ALSO JUST THE
IDEA OF HOW, YOU KNOW THE
DECISION TO LEAVE THEIR LOT OF
ELDERLY PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE
AND PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO GO
THEN ONCE THEY REALIZE THAT
THE PROBLEMS A LOT WORSE AND
THEY THINK THEY WANT BE BEEN
EVERYTHING. BUT ANOTHER THING
THAT I NOTICE THERE IS THAT,
YOU KNOW, THAT IS INTERESTING
WHEN YOU'RE IN THE WAR
COUNTRY, THERE'S THERE THERE,
THOSE CITIES THAT COSTLY BOBBY
OF A PLACE LIKE HE'VE WHERE,
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN BED AND
YOU'RE YOU'RE EXPLOSION ABOUT
10 KILOMETERS AWAY. BUT AT THE
SAME TIME PEOPLE HAVE THERE'S
SOME CERTAIN NORMALITY OF
LIFE. I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE GOING
OUT AND THEY'RE SHOPPING.
THEY'RE GETTING MILK FEELING A
LITTLE THEY DID TO SOME
EXTENT. BUT THEN AGAIN, LIVE A
MISSILE HIT A BUILDING. AND
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DIE WITH
REGARDS TO PEOPLE STAYING OR
GOING YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW
YOU'VE HELPED A FEW PEOPLE TRY
TO GET OUT OF COUNTRY AND WE
HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE PRESENCE
OF PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT
IN UKRAINE. I THINK I WAS
AMONG THOSE WHO WAS
SURPRISING, THOUGH THOSE
POPULATION THERE LIKE A
VIBRANT POPULATION.
>> OF DIVERSE PEOPLE FROM ALL
OVER THE WORLD. WHAT'S YOUR
VIEW IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU SAW
WITH PEOPLE OF AFRICAN
DESCENT, ESPECIALLY TRYING TO
GET OUT, TRYING TO GET WEST
FROM LVIV THROUGH POLAND.
THERE'VE BEEN A LOT OF
CONTROVERSY ABOUT RACE
AFFECTING THE REFUGEE OUTFLOW
FROM UKRAINE. YES, ABSOLUTELY.
SO THAT THAT THE CONVERSATION
ABOUT RACISM THAT'S ALWAYS
BEEN THERE, RIGHT. SO IT
DIDN'T TAKE A REFUGEE CRISIS
OR WAR.
>> IN NORTHWEST SEE THAT
THERE'S RACISM IN UKRAINE OR
POLAND OR THESE OF THESE
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. YOU KNOW,
WHEN TRAGEDY HITS EXACERBATES
WHATEVER PROBLEMS EXIST RIGHT.
IS A UNIQUE TO UKRAINE PER SE.
BUT YOU KNOW, IN THE FIRST FEW
WEEKS YOU THAT THE CASES THE
RACISM OF PEOPLE BEING
MISTREATED. THE BORDER
DEFINITELY WERE TRUE. ONE OF
THE THINGS OF THOSE OVER THE
WEEKS, HOWEVER, IS THAT WHEN
THAT LARGE RUSSIA PEOPLE, ONE
OUT START HERE. IF YOU'RE IN
FOR REPORTS NOW, THERE ARE
REPORTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
GETTING STUCK IN POLAND BY
BORDER PATROL OVER THAT SIDE.
EVEN WHEN THEY LEAVE UKRAINE,
THAT INVESTIGATION DONE BY THE
INDEPENDENT LONDON. AND SO
HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO GO
THROUGH GO TO BORDER PATROL
WITHOUT A PROBLEM. AND SO YOU
HAVE THAT AS WELL. NOW, WHAT
WE ARE DOING WITHOUT AND
CURRENTLY I'M WORKING ON IS
TALKING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIKE UKRAINE IS PEOPLE WHO YOU
KNOW, BECAUSE THIS DEAL
STORIES HAD ABOUT THESE GROUPS
OF PEOPLE BECAUSE ONE OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES NOTHING
EVER DOES WHAT SOME PEOPLE
AMERICAN THAT IS THAT THEY YOU
KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE YOU'RE IN A
COUNTRY, YOU PREPARED TO GO TO
SCHOOL, RIGHT. YOU DON'T
PREPARE FOR A WAR AND HAVE THE
FINANCIAL RESOURCES. IT LEAVES
OUT. TELL OUT PAY FOR RELIEF
FROM KIEV GOING TO THE BORDER
WITH THE LAST PERSON COST $600
TO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THAT
MONEY. YEAH. YOU KNOW, SO IS
OR IS NOT. SHE WILL GET TO A
FEW AUDIENCE QUESTIONS. BEFORE
LET YOU GO, VIRGINIA ASKED THE
ARGUMENT SCOOTING USES TO
JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF
UKRAINE.
>> WORK FOR HIM WHEN HE
INVADED AND DESTROYED
CHECHNYA. HUHNE HAS A HISTORY
OF COMMITTING ACTS OF VIOLENCE
AND BLAMING THOSE HE WISHES TO
TARGET AND ELIMINATE, DO YOU
THINK THE WORLD RECOGNIZES
THIS. WELL, YEAH. SO I THINK
THE WORLD ONLY RECOGNIZES IT.
I THINK WHAT THEY'RE
RECOGNIZES THAT UKRAINE IS NOT
JUST MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE YOU
DEFENSE SYSTEMS THAT CAN SHOOT
SHE MISSES IN THE CASE OF
CHECHNYA. RIGHT. AND THEN I
THINK ANOTHER THING, TOO, IS
THAT WHAT REALLY SHOWS YOU HOW
BOONE'S THINKING IS THAT HE
THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD BE
JUST ME. AND HE DID. SO IDEA
UKRAINIANS WILL BE LIBERATED.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE THERE
THERE ARE PLENTY OF EXAMPLES
IN AND RUSSIAN HIS RATHER BE
THE SOVIET UNION FOR EXAMPLE,
WHERE THEY UNDERESTIMATED OR
ADD A LACK OF SOPHISTICATION
ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT THEY
WERE TARGETING, PARTICULARLY
WITH BLACK PEOPLE IN THE
UNITED STATES, YOU KNOW, BUT
THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER THING.
BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE A
SITUATION WHERE THE UKRAINIAN
PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING BACK AND
YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW,
THEY HAVE IN THE RUSSIANS HAVE
NOT FOR THE MILITARY LIKE
UKRAINE ARE YEAH. ONE MORE OF
OUR VIEWERS ASKED WHY YOU ARE
IN UKRAINE IN THE FIRST PLACE
AND WHETHER YOU LIVED THERE
BEFORE THE WAR STARTED. I
LIVED THERE BEFORE THE WAR
STARS FULBRIGHT GRANT SEE IN
2000, 9, 2000, 10 STUDY,
RUSSIAN DID A PROJECT ON. BUT
UKRAINE'S ITS RECENTLY ENOUGH
THAT WE KNOW EARLIER TALKING
ABOUT THAT AND I WAS THERE TO
START A TOURISM COMPANY THAT'S
NOT GOING HAPPEN THIS YEAR,
ACTUALLY GOING TO I'M WORKING
ON A RECENT A CLOTHING RESALE
BUSINESS OF WHAT CLOTHING. AND
SO THAT'S STILL ONGOING. BUT I
WAS THEIR STAR BUSINESS. WENT
IN THERE AND START COVERING
THE WAR. YEAH. BEFORE I LET
YOU GO, I JUST WONDERED HOW
HOW YOU'RE DOING. I KNOW IT'S
ONLY BEEN LIKE 24 HOURS. SHE
GOT BACK THE LEG ARE YOU OKAY.
HOW ARE YOU WHAT THEY GOT
PRETTY MUCH I TALK TO
THERAPIST AND TALK ABOUT THE
THINGS I'VE SEEN AND WHAT I'VE
EXPERIENCED BECAUSE THE THING
ABOUT WAR REGARDLESS TO WHAT
ASPECT OF IT. YOU SEE. IT IS
TERRIBLE. IS THAT SOMETHING
THAT ANYONE OR TO GO THROUGH
IS IT BREAKS DOWN
PSYCHOLOGICALLY. AND SO THERE
ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T
HAVE ACCESS TO THERAPY
TREATMENT LIKE I DO AND
DESPERATELY NEEDED. AND SO ONE
OF THE THINGS I'M FINE BECOME
MORE PROACTIVE ABOUT WAYS I
CAN HELP. I'M GOING BACK TO
UKRAINE IN JULY. AS A MATTER
OF FACT. SO WHILE I'M HERE
WORK WITH DIFFERENT
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE IN FIG USE
MY PLATFORM TO SOME MONEY TO
PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST. I
APPRECIATE YOU MAKING TIME TO
TALK TO US. I APPRECIATE YOU
TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. I'M
SURE GLAD TO BE ABLE TO GET
BACK TO THE BARBER SHOP AND
IT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL TO
HAVE YOU HERE TO KIND OF WALK
US THROUGH WHAT'S GOING ON
FROM THE GROUND THROUGHOUT.
JERMAINE STARR, APPRECIATE YOU
THINK IT ABSOLUTELY THANK YOU.