Well, hello and welcome to this week's episode.
I'm super excited to continue our conversation about boundaries and in this week's episode
I'm going to be talking about how narcissists and codependents can basically heal that toxic
cycle, which I'll get into the cycle, with boundaries.
So let's start with why is it irresistible for narcissists and codependents to get into
relationships with each other?
It is so seductive.
It is such a, it's sort of this perfect combination and why is that?
Because narcissists and codependents are basically two halves of this perfect whole.
So you have the narcissist who's basically the taker and the controller, and then you
have the codependent person who is the fixer, the giver, the person who wants to make everything
okay, wants to fulfill all the needs of the narcissist so they feel okay about themselves,
which works just fine for the narcissist because they want all of their needs fulfilled.
That's what they're focused on as well, but there's something about this dynamic in the
beginning because narcissists are also incredibly charming in the beginning.
This is part of this process is where they can come in and sweep you off your feet.
You can feel a connection that you've never felt before in your life.
They have this ability to make you feel like the only person in the room, like you're the
perfect match for them, like you are their perfect unit.
It's sort of this, this super romantic feeling, and sometimes this is referred to from the
point of view of what the narcissist is doing to the codependent, sometimes is referred
to as love bombing, so it's very easy to have this hot and heavy, fast and furious relationship
develop.
What ends up happening though is that you get to this point where once you're in, once
the narcissist really knows that they have you, basically, a lot of that, the stuff that
you thought made you perfect together starts to go away.
So what is this toxic cycle?
What does it look like and how can boundaries help?
So the toxic cycle is basically being in a relationship where everything is great.
You have these peak moments and then everything you do is wrong.
You're being criticized all the time and then you're working to gain that person's approval
back and then you get the approval back, even if it's brief or whatever.
And that's the cycle.
It's not, um, there's no stability to this union.
There's always a lot of ups and downs in this process of a relationship between codependents
and narcissists.
So what is happening?
Each person, what are they really doing?
They're trying to, um, psychologically defend themselves, right?
Then we're not really dealing with core issues.
When you're doing this dysfunctional dance in this type of relationship, you're not handling
core issues.
You're not really effectively problem solving.
It's like you have this silent agreement to just act out your wounds without actually
getting any, um, real resolution in the end.
So what is the narcissist doing, right?
The narcissist is trying to uphold their false self.
As Alice Miller from the Drama of the Gifted Child, she talks about the erection of the
false self will that so much of what a narcissist is doing is working to continue to hold up
and build up this false sense of themselves.
And they're not just doing this for the outside.
This is a desperate attempt to avoid the self-loathing, the deep, deep insecurity that most narcissists
really feel deep down.
So that's basically what they're doing and they're wanting to get from the codependent,
what we call their narcissistic supply.
So feeding their ego, doing everything around their schedule, getting all of their needs
met.
But the problem is that no matter how much you acquiesce to what they want, no matter
how much you organize your entire life around them, they need to have the cycle so they'll
find a reason for it to go bad again in order for you to then, if you're the codependent,
struggle to make it good again.
So let's talk about what the codependent is doing.
The codependent is always walking on eggshells.
A codependent person, if you really have it bad, is constantly dialed into other people's
wants, desires, and needs, codependents feel overly responsible for the outcome of others,
for the bad choices of others.
Taking responsibility endlessly for what is not theirs.
And why do you think that is?
What is that, what is the secondary gain?
As I've talked about before, right, the un-obvious gain for doing that, what do you get to avoid?
You get to avoid your own feelings of insecurity, inadequacy, or whatever it may be.
This becomes your reason to live is fulfilling the needs of others.
The problem with this codependent dance and this codependent cycle, first of all, it's
dysfunctional.
Secondly, there's a superficiality to it because when we're acting out these wounds, because
that's what both people in this dance are doing, they're acting it out.
You're never going to get to a deeper level of intimacy and as much as in the very beginning,
the codependent is very like all in with this dance with the narcissist, right?
Because they're so good at anticipating someone's needs and making sure they have everything
the way that they like it and the way that they want it.
There's this maybe unspoken hope many times with the codependent that sooner or later
if they're good enough, if they do it enough that the narcissist will really know them,
will really acknowledge them, will really stay happy with them, like be happy with them
and stay happy with them as opposed to doing that cycle that I've been talking about.
Do you think without any kind of therapeutic intervention or change that that is going
to happen, do you think that the narcissist will one day wake up and become a truly appreciative
person of the codependent?
No, because they come out, not even because they don't want to.
They're not capable of it because they're not there in the process.
So let's talk about how do we bring boundaries into this mix?
So many of you who write in to me and who are watching this, I mean about 80 percent
of my audience is female.
So much of the time when I'm talking about codependence and narcissism, a lot of times
I feel like I'm speaking to the women as the codependents.
That is not always true.
So if you're a guy and you're watching this, I'm not leaving you out, but it really is
when we talk about boundaries, the person who's not drawing boundaries in the narcissistic/codependent
relationship situation is the codependent, right?
So the boundaries that I'm talking about in this episode, I'm giving you four steps of
how to start to introduce boundaries so that we can have some kind of a, um, a pattern
interrupt, a cycle interrupt, and keep in mind when I'm talking about healing the cycle,
sometimes it actually means ending the cycle, right?
Some situations will be too, already entrenched in this dynamic or this dance to be able to
just change.
So I don't know what your situation is.
Maybe you're watching this for a friend, I don't know, but let's talk about the steps
that you can take.
If you're familiar with my work, you guys, you know, what is the first thing that I always
talk about?
Awareness.
You must be aware of you.
You must be aware of yourself.
You must be aware of what you're doing and what you're not doing right?
So you have to know yourself.
That is step one, is knowing yourself.
How happy are you?
How unhappy are you?
How satisfied are you in this relationship?
Do you feel good?
Do you feel terrible?
Right?
You have to focus on your own needs and when you've been trained so much of it because
family of origin, background, but you've been trained, we become codependents you guys for
a reason, right?
You don't just fall off a tree this way.
It happens for a reason.
It's not like something's wrong with you.
This is an adaptive response to a dysfunctional situation in childhood.
I don't know.
Nine point nine percents, you know, nine point nine times out of 10.
I mean certainly childhood has everything to do with who we become as adults, especially
the way we interact in our romantic relationships.
So you have to look at yourself.
Are you a hardcore codependent or as I say so many women in my crew are high-functioning
codependents, so they don't really feel identified with the codependent Melody Beattie, you know,
from Codependent No More where it used to be that, you know, you were all involved with
addicts only.
No, that's not my crew.
My tribe are these high-functioning successful women who are just working themselves to death
in their relationships, all of their relationships, so I renamed it high-functioning codependency
because it's something that actually they feel identified with in a way that they didn't
with the other name of codependency, so your step one has to be to get really honest with
yourself about what is happening in this relationship and not just this relationship.
Other relationships as well, and then the second step is going to be you observing yourself
without judgment.
Look at the way that you deal with the people in your life, even your friends.
Do they say, what do you want to do?
And you go, I don't care.
Whatever you want to do is good.
If they say, what do you want to order in for dinner?
You go, I don't care.
Whatever you want is good.
I want you to start dialing into observing the way that you're behaving, not just in
your romantic relationship but with everyone, because if you're extremely codependent in
a relationship with a narcissist, I imagine that you have these codependent behaviors
in your other relationships as well and in every single one of those relationships.
What this serves to do is block you being authentically known.
It blocks the level of intimacy that you can have even in your friendships, and it may
sound silly or strange to think that you telling the truth about what you want to eat for dinner
matters, but I promise you it does, because it's an indication of a systemic way of being.
Not prioritizing your preferences, your pleasure, your desires, whatever it is that you want,
and this is part of the problem, because how can you draw boundaries if you don't know
what it is that you want, right?
Awareness is always the first thing because how can we change that which we are unaware?
You actually can't.
So let's talk about moving on to step three.
You're going to start small.
You're going to start asserting yourself in small ways.
How will you do that?
If a friend asks you, and it's also good to start in relationships that you feel more
secure in or that are less volatile than the romantic relationship if you are involved
with narcissist.
So a friend says, what do you want to eat for dinner?
Tell them, start actually asking yourself what you want and then telling the truth.
So we start with small steps of asserting yourself and it can even be in public places.
If you order something and it comes wrong, if you would normally just eat it or not eat
it, but not send it back, you can nicely send it back.
That is a step in the right direction of drawing boundaries in your relationship.
And step four is about language, is once you observe and decide where are you going to
start to assert yourself using very simple, you know, nonviolent communication type language.
And because it's hard usually for anyone who suffers from codependency that it's always,
um, appropriate and fine to start with something positive.
So even if you're drawing a boundary and you know, um, turning down a friend, last week's
video was about saying no with ease and grace, but you can start by saying I love that you
always think to include me.
Thank you, but I can't go next Sunday because I already have plans, but I really love that
you thought of me.
So this, especially for a codependent, it makes it a little bit easier if you want to
provide context for why you're saying no, you can.
If you're going to start drawing boundaries within a relationship with a narcissist, again,
starting with positivity and saying thank you for whatever it is or I love how adventurous
you are and that you're always planning things for us.
But I actually don't want to do whatever the thing is.
Also understanding, and don't worry you guys, I have a little downloadable, uh, like a cheat
sheet that you'll be able to put some language on there for you.
And these four steps to make it easy.
Um, understand that when you draw boundaries, even if it's not with a narcissist, that's
going to create feelings, feelings for you, but that stress and anxiety of doing it can
be short lived, right?
But then the benefit, the relief of doing it can actually last a much longer time.
So I want you to think about it that way.
You don't have to be perfect at it, you just have to start small because the process of
healing that toxic cycle between a codependent and a narcissist, boundaries really is the
answer and the truth is once you start drawing boundaries, you are not sure what will be
revealed because you have to get dialed into if you are the codependent.
Are you willing to give up this familiar cycle of behavior, this familiar cycle where things
are great.
We're getting along swimmingly.
Everything is great.
Sex is great.
She or he seems so appreciative of me right now, until there's something you do that becomes
some crime and then the berating, begins and then the cycle goes again and then they're
mad at you.
You don't even know how, in a relationship with a narcissist, you can be mad at them
and somehow by the end of that conversation they're mad at you and you kind of think they're
right, like they're very, very crafty and very smart, so perhaps ending the cycle in
this kind of a relationship.
What it may look like is ending the relationship, because not all unions that are built with
narcissism codependence will be flexible enough to handle the insertion of boundaries into
that union because you are going to be toppling that apple cart, right?
It's called the homeostasis in a relationship, which is basically the balance in a relationship
and when we change something, we change one of the steps to the dance.
We change the way we're doing it.
That shifts things and now we're, everything is like mixed up for a while and when we are
in transition, even as a couple, it can be scary.
Scary for you, scary for them.
Even if the cycle itself, if you're in this type of a cycle, is horrendous, it's familiar.
So what I'm asking you to do, if you want to see if your relationship can handle this
is you've got to be brave.
And here's the thing, if you're the codependent who really struggles with boundaries, you
need to learn how to do this anyway.
If you ever want to have the life that you could have, if you ever want to live to your
full potential, it will never ever happen if you never learn how to properly draw boundaries.
Because when you really think about what drawing boundaries, what, what does that mean?
You know, Brene Brown would say, it's basically telling the people in your what is okay and
not okay with you, right?
Um, this other woman, what's her name?
Sari, something's got a Ted Talk about this.
Um, she, she says that your boundaries are basically a compilation of your yeses and
nos.
And in order for you to effectively draw boundaries, you have to know what those are.
So I know there's a lot of food for thought.
I hope that this episode inspired thought for you.
If you liked it, I will ask you to share it on your social media channels with other people.
If you think you have a friend or family member who might find it helpful, please do share
it because that is the best way that you can support my mission in life, which is to empower
as many people as possible while I am on planet Earth.
I also want to remind you guys, hey, you know, Boundary Bootcamp season is on.
It's so exciting.
I'm doing Wednesday Wisdom livestreams, breaking down all things about boundaries.
So if you're a guy, you can join me on my Facebook business page, which is Terri Cole,
LCSW. and if you are a woman, you can join me in my all gals Facebook group, which is
called The Real Love Revolution.
I would love to see all of you on that livestream, Wednesday 3:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.
And I'm going to be doing that until September 5th.
So you don't want to miss it.
And we also have our Big Beautiful Boundary Challenge coming up in September.
So stay tuned for all the details.
I hope you have an amazing week and as always, take care of you.