♪.
LARRY: ALL RIGHT.
THE DEMOCRATS RECONCILIATION
BILL, THE BUDGET BILL, BUILD
BACK BETTER BILL, MIGHT TOTAL
1.75 TRILLION, I DON’T KNOW.
THERE IS A LOT OF SPENDING
GIMMICKS IN THERE BUT IT IS
STILL STUFFED WITH WELFARE, NOT
WORKFARE, JOB KILLING TAX HIKES
GUARANTEED PRAYS PRICE INCREASES
FOR GASOLINE HOME HEATING
BECAUSE THE GREENEYS WANT TO
DESTROY FOSSIL FUELS.
YOU I AM CALLING THEM MY
SAVIORS, STEVE FORBES, ART
LAFFER, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIC
ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT
RONALD REAGAN, STEVE MOORE,
COMMITTEE TO UNLEASH PROSPERITY
HOTLINE, MANY OTHER THINGS THAT
ARE GOOD AND GRAND.
STEVE FORBES, I WANT TO BEGIN
WITH YOU, I DON’T KNOW IF YOU
HAVE SEEN YOU KNOW OUTLINES OF
THIS NEW TEXT THAT THEY’RE
PUTTING OUT, SO-CALLED
FRAMEWORK.
YOU KNOW.
A LOT OF THINGS A LOT OF BAD
THINGS WERE PULLED OUT BECAUSE
OF MANCHIN AND SINEMA BUT THEN
LOOKS TO ME LIKE A LOT OF BAD
THINGS HAVE BEEN PUT BACK IN BUT
I WANTED TO GET YOUR TAKE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU SEE FROM
THIS NEW ROUND?
>> WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS THEY
HAVE KEPT SOME ENTITLEMENTS IN
THERE.
YOU TAKE THE CHILD CREDIT.
THEY HAVE ONLY ONE YEAR ON IT
BECAUSE THEY KNOW NO WAY IN
ELECTION YEAR YOU WILL LET THAT
EXPIRE.
TWO OTHER PROGRAMS, PRE-K, AND
CHILD CARE, WHICH WILL BE BOONS
TO THE UNIONS RATHER THAN
HELPING THE KIDS, THERE THEY PUT
SIX YEARS.
WHY SIX YEARS?
TO HELP BUILD UP CONSTITUENCIES
TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT
ALLOWED TO EXPIRE.
SO YOU SEE WHAT THEY’RE DOING ON
HEALTH CARE, EXPENDING
GOVERNMENT’S FOOTPRINT THERE.
SO THIS IS A REAL VICTORY FOR
THE FAR LEFT.
I HOPE THOUGH THAT THEY DON’T
SEE THAT AND THAT THEY WILL END
UP KILLING BOTH BILLS.
BUT RIGHT NOW IF YOU SAID THIS A
YEAR AGO WE WOULD BE HIT WITH
THIS, YOU WOULD SAY THIS IS
GOING TO BE BAD FOR NOW AND FOR
THE FUTURE BUDGETING BECAUSE
KNOWS NUMBERS ARE GOING TO
EXPLODE.
LARRY: THESE TOP LYNUM BERKS
1.75 TRILLION, IS REALLY A BUNCH
OF PHONY BALONEY.
ART LAFFER, WHAT IS THIS KIND OF
STUFF MEAN FOR THE ECONOMY AS
YOU SEE IT?
>> WELL, ABOUT IT GETS THROUGH
AND IT GETS DONE IT WILL DO A
LOT OF DAMAGE.
NUMBER ONE THERE ARE HUGE INCOME
EFFECTS OF THIS TYPE OF BILL, IT
WILL CONVINCE PEOPLE NOT TO
WORK.
LOW INCOME WORKERS WILL LEAVE
THE THING.
INCOME EFFECT, YOU WILL HAVE
WITHDRAWAL OF ASSETS FROM THE
MARKET PRICE.
ALL THE PRICES WILL BE BID UP
SUBSTANTIALLY.
TAX PEOPLE WHO WORK, AND PAY
PEOPLE WHO DON’T WORK, LARRY,
YOU WILL GET A REAL PROBLEM.
ALL THE STUFF THE WAY IT IS
BEING DONE REMINDS ME AFTER
CHARLIE CHAPLIN FIRE DRILL.
EVERYONE SCREAMING, I JUST ASKED
THE CAB DRIVER, HE HAS A GREAT
IDEA FOR NEW TAXES.
THESE GUYS ARE UNPROFESSIONAL,
UNPREPARED, REALLY JUST A SHAME
ON THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM
AND IT SHOULD BE STOPPED RIGHT
NOW AN REPLACED BY SOMETHING
SERIOUS ABOUT ALSO WITHDRAWING
ALL THE POLICIES ONCE THEY GET
INTO PLACE WHICH THEY DO.
LARRY: STEVE MOORE, ART’S POINT
IS WELL-TAKEN.
THIS IS HODGEPODGE, THROWING
STUFF UP AGAINST THE WALL SEEING
WHAT IS GOING TO STICK BUT THERE
IS SOME NASTY SURPRISES IN
THERE, OR MAYBE I SHOULDN’T SAY
SURPRISES BUT AS YOU GO UP THE
INCOME LADDER, FIVE MILLION,
10 MILLION, 20 MILLION, YOU’RE
GOING TO PAY MUCH HIGHER TAX
RATES.
I THINK I CALCULATED THE TOP
PERSONAL TAX RATE WILL GO BACK
TO NEARLY 50%.
I’M NOT SURE BUT CAPITAL GAINS
MAY BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME
SURTAXES, IN ADDITION TO GOING
FROM 20 TO 28.
THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY SURTAXES.
THEN YOU EVER THE CORPORATE
MINIMUM TAXES, STEVE, WHICH
MEANS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU’RE NOT
GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXPENSE OR
DEDUCT CAPITAL EQUIPMENT OR NEW
TECHNOLOGIES AND THINGS OF THAT
SORT.
THIS IS PRETTY ROUGH STUFF.
>> LOOK IT IS A TERRIBLE BILL,
NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, BUT I WANT
TO SOUND A LITTLE NOTE OF
OPTIMISM.
FIRST OF ALL THERE WAS NO DEAL
TODAY.
THAT IS JUST FLIMFLAM.
MANCHIN ISN’T ONBOARD, SINEMA
ISN’T ON BOARD.
THIS WAS THEATRICS TODAY.
THEY HAVE A LOT WORK TO DO TO
GET THIS THING DONE.
WE HAVE 50% CHANCE OF KILLING
THIS BILL ENTIRELY.
BUT WE’RE MAKING PROGRESS,
LARRY, NOTWITHSTANDING ALL THE
TERRIBLE THINGS IN THE BILL.
THE DEATH TAX INCREASE THEY
WANTED, THAT IS OUT OF THE BILL.
PAID PARENTAL LEAVE.
THAT HAS COME OUT OF THE BILL.
28% CORPORATE TAX RATE IS OUT OF
THE BILL.
WE ARE MAKING SOME PROGRESS.
THE THING IS SHRINKING, I WAS
THINKING, LARRY, DO YOU REMEMBER
WHEN YOU AND I SAT DOWN WITH
SENATOR RON JOHNSON RIGHT BEFORE
THE TRUMP TAX CUT WAS PASSED.
AND WE GOT THAT AND JOHNSON
QUITE CORRECTLY SAID WE HAVE TO
GET THE SMALL BUSINESS TAX RATE,
REMEMBER, LARRY, DOWN TO BELOW
30%.
WE GOT IT DOWN TO 29 1/2%.
WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?
BECAUSE WHAT BIDEN DOES IN THIS
BILL HE RAISES THE SMALL
BUSINESS TAX RATE BECAUSE WHEN
HE TALKS ABOUT THE RICH, THOSE
ARE PEOPLE WHO OWN SMALL
BUSINESSES, THEIR RATE GOES FROM
30% TO 50%.
LARRY: RIGHT.
>> IN THIS BILL.
HOW IS THAT GOING TO CREATE
JOBS?
I GUARRANTY YOU ONE THING, STEVE
FORBES HAS BEEN RIGHT ABOUT THIS
30 YEARS.
STEVE IF WE HAD YOUR FLAT TAX AT
WHAT 18%, WE WOULD GET MORE
REVENUE AT 18% THAN THEY’RE
GOING TO GET AT 50%.
LARRY: STEVE MOORE, GOING BACK
TO RON JOHNSON, THEY HAVE
REMOVED THE SMALL BUSINESS
DEDUCTION.
>> I KNOW.
LARRY: YOU’RE RIGHT ABOUT THE
TOP RATE.
THAT IS WHAT THE S-CORPS PAY,
YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, ON TOP
OF THAT ADDING INSULT TO INJURY
THEY HAVE TAKEN AWAY THE
DEDUCTION.
STEVE FORBES, IT IS LIKE, OKAY,
YOU WILL SPEND MORE.
THE FED IS FUNDING OR FINANCING
THE SPENDING.
SO THAT STIMULATES THE DEMAND.
BUT YOU’RE TAKING INCENTIVES TO
WORK AWAY.
INCENTIVES TO INVEST AWAY.
AND AS THE GREAT ART LAFFER SAID
YOU TAX SOMETHING MORE YOU WILL
GET LESS OF IT.
SO THEY’RE GOING TO RAISE DEMAND
AND THEY’RE GOING TO CUT BACK ON
THE SUPPLY OF GOODS AND
SERVICES.
SO THAT TELLS ME THIS INFLATION
IS NOT TEMPORARY.
IT IS GOING TO BE PERMANENT AND
IT IS GOING TO KNOCK DOWN THE
ECONOMY.
>> WELL THERE ARE ALWAYS
TWISTING WORDS.
TRANSITORY WHICH ONCE MEANT, A
FEW WEEKS, A FEW MONTHS?
NOW IT WILL BE A FEW YEARS,
PERHAPS A CENTURY.
THAT IS THE NEW TRANSITORY LIKE
THEIR NEW NORMAL.
SO, YES, YOU RAISED
CAPITAL-GAINS TAX TO 32%, 31.8%
THAT HURTS INVESTMENT.
YOU WILL HAVE THE KIND
STAGFLATION, WITH DETAILS LIKE
WE HAD IN THE 1970S.
THIS WILL SET THE STAGE, WE HOPE
WE CAN REPEAL IT.
WE HAVE TO GET AS BATCHED STUFF
OUT OF THIS BILL WE CAN SO THE
REPAIR WORK WILL BE MORE
MANAGEABLE WHEN WE GET BACK IN
BECAUSE THERE WILL BE A LOT OF
REPAIR WORK TO DO WITH WHAT THE
PEOPLE ARE DOING NOW.
LARRY: YOU KNOW, SINEMA SAID NO
INCREASE IN THE PERSONAL TAX
RATE OR THE CORPORATE TAX RATE
OR THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX RATE
BUT ART LAFFER, THROUGH SOME
BACKDOOR, OR SIDE DOOR, WHAT
THEY HAVE DONE IS THEY ARE
RAISING THE PERSONAL TAX RATE
AND THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX RATE
AND THE CORPORATE RATE.
I MEAN RAISING, 15% MINIMUM TAX
ON CORPORATIONS AT HOME AND
ABROAD, WHAT IS THAT?
THAT IS A HUGE TAX HIKE.
>> IT SURE IS.
I’VE JUST GOT A BOOK COMING OUT
LARRY, SHORTLY WITH JEAN SINK
AND BRIAN DEMETRICH.
TAXES HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
WHEN YOU RAISE THE HIGHER TAX
RATE, YOU CAUSE THE RICH TO BE
WORSE OFF, TO SHELTER MORE.
YOU CAUSE THE POOR TO BE WORSE
OFF.
YOU CAUSE THE ECONOMY TO BE
WORSE OFF AND LOSE REVENUES.
THEY WILL LOSE MONEY.
IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE TAX
BILL, THE 2017 TAX BILL PAID FOR
ITSELF WITHIN TWO YEARS.
THIS WILL COST.
JUST PLAY THE FILM BACKWARDS,
THIS WILL COST A FORTUNE.
THE ONLY THING GOOD ABOUT THE
BILL MEANS THERE WILL NEVER BE
ANOTHER DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE,
WHITE HOUSE, OR SENATE EVER
AGAIN.
THIS IS THE END.
LARRY: COULD YOU ELABORATE ON
THAT FOR A MOMENT?
>> SURE.
THIS IS, THIS IS A, YOU KNOW,
THIS IS A CHARLIE CHAPLIN FIRE
DRILL.
THESE PEOPLE ARE THE MOST
UNPROFESSIONAL PEOPLE.
I WISH YOU HAD THE FAVORABLE,
UNFAVORABLE FOR BIDEN.
IT LOOKS LIKE THAT GOING.
IT IS AMAZING.
THEY HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THEY
POSSIBLY CAN TO RUIN AMERICA AND
TO RUIN THEIR REPUTATIONS AND TO
RUIN ALL THAT THEY HAVE STAND
FOR.
IT IS NOT A SECOND PARTY THIS IS
THE LAST-DITCH EFFORT BEFORE
THEY JUMP OFF THE CLIFF.
LARRY: WE GOT SOMETHING ON THE
SCOREBOARD HERE.
>> IT IS GREAT NEWS ON THAT.
LARRY: BIDEN SUPPORT CRASHES.
ACTUALLY TRUMP’S SUPPORT IS
RISING, FASCINATING.
PEOPLE YEARN FOR THE CALM,
PLACID, ORDERLY PROSPEROUS YEARS
OF MY FORMER BOSS PRESIDENT
DONALD TRUMP.
YOU KNOW, STEVE MOORE, I’M
REALLY IN TERMS OF THE STUPIDITY
METER, I THOUGHT THE RETROACTIVE
UNREALIZED CAPITAL-GAINS TAX ON
BILLIONAIRES, ACTUALLY
100 MILLION OR ABOVE, I THOUGHT
THAT WAS THE SINGLE STUPIDEST
THING I HAVE SIGN IN THE A LONG
TIME CONGRESSMAN RICHARD NEAL
BASICALLY DON’T WANT TO TOUCH IT
BUT SENATOR RON WYDEN STILL
THINKS HE IS GOING TO DO IT.
YOU KNOW, STEVE JOBS,
JEFF BEZOS, EVEN WHEN THEY
WEREN’T RICH THEY WILL HAVE TO
BE CHARGED BACKWARDS,
RETROACTIVELY THE UP FRONT TAX
HIKE.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> THAT WAS A TRIAL BALLOON THIS
WEEK AND IT FLEW LIKE THE
HINDENBURG.
THAT THING BLEW UP.
NOBODY LIKED THAT IDEA.
YOU KNOW, JEFF BEZOS, I DON’T
AGREE WITH JEFF BEZOS ON HIS
POLITICS BUT HE SAID SOMETHING
VERY WISE.
HE SAID, LOOK, THEY WANT ME TO
GIVE ALL OF THIS MONEY IN TO THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
HE SAID LOOK, I BUILT A TRILLION
DOLLAR COMPANY.
WHO DO YOU THINK THAN INVEST
THIS MONEY BETTER, ME OR THESE
POLITICIANS?
THAT IS PRETTY WISE.
WHY ARE WE TAKING MONEY AWAY
FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THE
PEOPLE WHO BUILD GREAT COMPANIES
AND GIVING IT THE POLITICAL
CLASS?
WHEN ART LAFFER TALKED ABOUT THE
STUPIDITY OF THIS BILL I WILL
NAME ANOTHER ONE.
YOU MENTIONED THIS THE OTHER DAY
ON YOUR SHOW, LARRY.
WE’RE PRODUCING I THINK YOU SAID
TWO MILLION FEWER BARRELS OF OIL
A DAY UNDER JOE BIDEN.
DO THE MATH.
OIL AT $84 A BARREL.
IF MY MATH IS RIGHT,
$165 MILLION A DAY WE’RE NOT
GETTING PRODUCTION HERE AND IT
IS GOING TO OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE
RUSSIA AND OPEC AND
SAUDI ARABIA.
TELL ME WHAT SENSE THAT MAKES.
ALL SORTS OF DECISIONS LIKE THAT
ARE BEING MADE EVERY DAY AND
INCIDENTALLY, CHINA IS NOT GOING
TO GLASCOW.
THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT CLIMATE
CHANGE.
THEY CARE ABOUT TAKING OVER THE
WORLD.
THEY’RE LAUGHING BEHIND OUR BACK
AS YOUR FORMER BOSS DONALD TRUMP
WOULD SAY.
LARRY: STEVE FORBES, THE CONCEPT
HERE IS WEALTH CONFISCATION.
THIS IS THE MOST BLATANT EXAMPLE
OF AN ATTEMPT AT MASSIVE WEALTH
CONFISCATION.
THAT IS WHAT IS BEHIND THE
THINKING OF THIS CRAZY
UNREALIZED CAPITAL GAINS
BILLIONAIRE’S TAX GOING ALL THE
WAY BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ASSET
VALUE.
AND I’M SURPRISED MORE
REPUBLICANS AREN’T UP IN ARMS
ABOUT THIS, OR MAYBE THEY ARE
AND I’M JUST NOT HEARING IT?
>> WELL I THINK THE IDEA OF
TAKING THAT KIND OF CONFISCATION
WASN’T AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO
EVEN ROUSE SOME REPUBLICANS BUT
TO YOUR POINT, LARRY, IT IS
TRUE, THIS IS NOT ABOUT
ECONOMICS.
THIS IS ABOUT POLITICAL CONTROL.
THIS IS ABOUT SOCIALISM.
THEY REALIZE, IN THE OLD -- YOU
DON’T HAVE TO CONFISCATE
COMPANIES.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO TAKE THEM
OVER, STEEL COMPANIES AND THE
LIKE AS THEY USED TO DO IN
BRITAIN AND ELSEWHERE.
THE WAY TO CONTROL AN ECONOMY
THROUGH REGULATION WHERE
COMPANIES CAN’T SURVIVE WITHOUT
YOUR BENEFICENCE, IF YOU MAKE
MONEY, THEY DO TAKE THE MONEY
AWAY UNDER THE GUISE OF HELPING
THE PEOPLE.
IT IS MR. POLITICAL CONTROL,
WEALTH CONTROL, KEEPING THEM IN
POWER EVEN IF IT IMPOVERISHES
THE ECONOMY.
THAT IS WHAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT,
POWER, NOT PROSPERITY.
LARRY: I TEND TO AGREE.
ART LAFFER, GIVE YOU THE LAST
WORD ON THIS, IF THIS STUFF GOES
THROUGH, ALL RIGHT, MINIMUM
TAXES, 15 AND 15, HOME AND
ABROAD, THE SURTAX ON WEALTHY
PEOPLE, EVEN THE BILLIONAIRE’S
WEALTH CONFISCATION TAX, WILL
THAT BASICALLY UNWIND THE TRUMP
TAX CUTS, OR MIGHT THE TRUMP TAX
CUTS STILL HAVE A SHELF LIFE
LEFT?
>> WELL THAT WILL UNWIND THEM,
LARRY T REALLY WILL.
WHAT THEY HAVE DONE WITH ALL THE
TAXES AND EVERYTHING IS JUST
DISASTEROUS.
THEY HAVE NOT SPECIFICALLY
UNWOUND THE TRUMP ONES YET BUT
THE TRUMP ONES IMPLY IN THE
ENVIRONMENT.
BUT THAT, GOOD NEWS HERE THAT IF
THEY DO THIS STUFF, THEY WILL BE
REPLACED.
THEN WE’LL TAKE CARE OF THEM.
IT REMINDS ME VERY MUCH 1958,
1959 WHEN YOU WERE JUST BORN
AND --
LARRY: I WISH.
>> WE HAD THE KENNEDY REVOLUTION
TO RESPOND WITH EISENHOWER.
WE HAD ’79 WHEN JIMMY CARTER,
ALL OF THAT STUFF.
IT LED TO RONALD REAGAN.
WITHOUT JIMMY CARTER THERE
WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN A
RONALD REAGAN.
WITHOUT PELOSI, SCHUMER AND
BIDEN, GOODNESS KNOWS WHAT IT
WILL BE, IT WILL BE SPECTACULAR
WHAT WILL FOLLOW THEM.
>> THE REASON WE’LL WIN ON THIS,
BECAUSE GLENN YOUNGKIN WILL WIN
THE VIRGINIA GOVERNOR’S RACE ON
TUESDAY.
WHEN HE DOES THAT, THE DEMOCRATS
WILL RUN FOR THE HIGH GRASS,
LARRY.
I’M WITH YOU, SAVE THE COUNTRY,
KILL THE BILL.
LARRY: SAVE AMERICA, KILL THE
BILL.
>> FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EARS.
FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EARS,
STEVE.
LARRY: STEVE MOORE IS RIGHT.
I THINK WE’RE GAINING ON IT.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE STILL IN A
CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD.
IT IS JUST A PITY, FELLOWS, THE
TRUMP TAX CUTS AND ITS
DEREGULATION PROGRAM, ITS ENERGY
PROGRAM, DELIVERED A TERRIFIC
ECONOMY, PROSPEROUS ECONOMY, LOW
UNEMPLOYMENT, BIG JOBS, FAMILY
INCOMES BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
AND WHEN WE REOPENED DURING AND
AFTER THE PANDEMIC, HE REALLY
DID IT TWICE IN THE SPACE OF
FOUR YEARS.
HE MAY NEVER GET CREDIT FOR IT.
THESE GUYS WANT TO REVERSE IT.
SO THEY REVERSE THE TAX CUTS,
THEY WILL REVERSE THE ECONOMIC
PROSPERITY.
THAT IS THE WAY I SEE IT.
REAL SIMPLE.
>> EXACTLY.
LARRY: STEVE FORBES, ART LAFFER,