>>> ALL ROADS SEEM TO LEAD TO THE PRESIDENT, THOUGH.
ISN’T IT SO?
>> I HAVE CONCERNED ABOUT ALL
ROADS LEADING TO PUTIN, WHICH
AGAIN ALL ROADS LEAD TO PUTIN.
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.
>> I ALSO POINTED OUT TO THE
PRESIDENT I HAD CONCERNS THAT
ALL ROADS SEEM TO LEAD TO PUTIN.
>> IN FACT, NANCY PELOSI
BELIEVES THAT IS THE VERY POINT
SHE WAS MAKING WHEN SHE STOOD UP
TO THE PRESIDENT PRIOR TO
WALKING OUT IN THE NOW FAMOUS
PHOTO THAT, WHILE IT MIGHT HAVE
BEEN TWEETED OUT BY OUR
PRESIDENT, HAS CERTAINLY BROKEN
THE OTHER WAY IN TERMS OF PUBLIC
OPINION.
OPINION. JUST LOOK AT THE MEN AT THAT
TABLE AND THEIR UNAMBIGUOUS BODY
LANGUAGE.
LANGUAGE. BUT WE DIGRESS.
BACK TO VLADIMIR PUTIN AND
SPECIFICALLY THE QUESTION OF
WHAT MOTIVATES HIM.
RACHEL MADDOW EXPLORES THAT IN
HER BOOK AND MAKES A CASE THAT
THE OIL INDUSTRY IS A HUGE PART
OF THE ANSWER.
IT IS ESSENTIALLY A BIG CASINO
THAT CAN PRODUCE POWER AND GREAT
GOBS OF CASH.
THAT EQUATION INVITES GANGSTER
GANGSTERISM
GANGSTERISM GANGSTERISM, AND THE SORTS OF
FOLKS THAT ENJOY THESE HOBBIES.
HAPPENS TO BE NUMBER ONE ON "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" BEST SELLER
LIST.
LIST. TALK ABOUT THE BUSINESS -- THE
BUSINESS NETWORKS TALK ABOUT
ROI, RETURN ON INVESTMENT.
TALK ABOUT THE INITIAL RUSSIAN
INVESTMENT IN SCREWING UP OUR
ELECTIONS, HOW CHEEP IT IS, HOW
VULNERABLE WE REMAIN RIGHT NOW
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. >> THAT WAS WHY I ENDED UP
WRITING THIS BOOK.
I HAD NO NATIVE INTEREST IN THE
OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.
I WAS NOT SETTING OUT TO WRITE A
BOOK OF ANY PARTICULAR KIND.
BUT HAVING SPENT SO MUCH TIME
COVERING THE RUSSIAN ATTACK AND
STUCK ON WHY IT MADE SENSE FOR
THEM TO DO IT, WHY THE RISK AND
REWARD BALANCE MADE SENSE.
AND IT WAS A VERY STRANGE
ATTACK, RIGHT?
ATTACK, RIGHT? IT WAS SORT OF McGYVERED
TOGETHER THING.
TOGETHER THING. THIS GUY WHO IS AN OLIGARCH WHO
HAS CATERING CONTRACTS AND ALSO
RUNS MERCENARY ARMIES SETS UP A
WEIRD SOCIAL MEDIA FACTORY IN
ST. PETERSBURG WHERE PEOPLE GET
PAID TO PRETEND THEIR AMERICANS
AND THEN THERE IS A MILITARY
INTELLIGENCE HACKING EFFORT
TARGETING DEMOCRATIC
TARGETING DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND THEN THEY
INVENT THIS TO SEND IT OUT.
IT WAS A WEIRD THING TO DO.
IT’S ALSO VERY, VERY CHEAP.
IT ALSO WAS A VERY DESPERATE IF
I THINK THR THEMFOR THEM.
THEY THOUGHT HILLARY CLINTON WAS
GOING TO WIN AS MUCH AS PEOPLE
IN THIS COUNTRY DID.
SHE WAS ALREADY A HAWK ON RUSSIA
COMING INTO THIS.
IF SHE HAD BEEN ELECTED
PRESIDENT AFTER RUSSIA HAD TAKEN
THIS WILD SWING AT HER, IMAGINE
WHAT THAT WOULD HAVE MEANT IN
TERMS OF THE POWER A NEW U.S.
PRESIDENT COULD DIRECT RUSSIA’S
WAY.
WAY. BUT YET THEY STILL SAW IT AS
WORTH IT.
WORTH IT. I THINK THE REASON IT WAS STILL
WORTH IT FOR THEM IS BECAUSE
THEY WERE SO DESPERATE.
AND THE REASON THEY WERE SO
DESPERATE IS THEIR ECONOMY IS
SUCH A DISASTER.
AND THE SPECIFIC WAY IN WHICH
THEIR ECONOMY IS A DISASTER IS
ABOUT OIL AND GAS AND IT IS
WORTH TO ALMOST TO TRY ANYTHING
TO GET OUT FROM THE U.S.
SANCTIONS THAT HAVE PRECLUDED
WESTERN OIL MAJORS FOR HELPING
THEM DRILL WHAT THEY NEED TO
DRILL TO KEEP THEIR ECONOMY
GOING.
GOING. >> I ALSO SAY THE ECONOMY OF
TEXAS IS LARGER THAN THE ECONOMY
OF RUSSIA.
OF RUSSIA. >> YES, THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
RUSSIA IS 150 MILLION PEOPLE.
THEIR ECONOMY IS SMALLER THAN
TEXAS, SMALLER THAN ITALY,
SMALLER THAN SOUTH KOREA.
THEY HAVE ONE INDUSTRY, AND THAT
WAS A PUTIN DECISION BECAUSE HE
REALLY WANTED TO USE OIL AND GAS
AS A WEAPON.
SO HE DIDN’T WANT ADY DYIVERSIFI
ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. HE CONSOLIDATED IT ALL WITHIN
ITS OWN POWER.
THAT’S FINE FOR A WHILE.
BUT EVENTUALLY YOU GET TO THE
END OF THE ROAD.
>> IN A DIRD AWORLD ADDICTED TO
DINOSAUR JUICE, HOW SHOULD OIL
COMPANIES BE?
COMPANIES BE? THEY WAKE UP EVERY MORNING TO
FULFILL OUR ADDICTION TO OIL AND
GAS.
GAS. WHAT SHOULD THEY BE DOING?
HOW SHOULD THEY BE BEHAVING THAT
THEY HAVE NOT BEEN?
THE THING THAT IS INTERESTING TO
ME IN THE BIG PICTURE FOR THIS
BOOK IS THAT I THINK WE REALLY
UNDERESTIMATE OIL AND GASES
GEOPOLITICAL INFLUENCE.
GEOPOLITICAL INFLUENCE. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE
THE CLIMATE ACTIVISTS GET
EVERYTHING THEY WANT, AMERICA
AND EVERY OTHER BIG ECONOMY ON
EARTH SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE’RE
TURNING OFF OIL AND GAS.
WE’RE GOING TO RENEWABLES.
THEY WILL LOSE ALL THEIR MARKET
SHARE, LOSE A LOT OF THEIR
POWER.
POWER. I THINK WE SHOULD SEE THE
BOUNDARIES OF COUNTRIES CHANGE.
THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IS
PROPPING UP TERRIBLE GOVERNMENTS
ALL OVER THE WORLD.
IT IS BECAUSE THE WAY THEY
OPERATE, WHICH IS CONVENIENT FOR
THEM IS NONTRANSPARENT, OFTEN
BRINGS OUT THE WORST IN
DEMOCRACY AND IS COUNTER
DEMOCRATIC BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR
THEM.
THEM. IF U.S. REGULATIONS ON OIL
MAJORS THAT EITHER OPERATE HERE
OR ARE HEADQUARTERED HERE FORCE
THEM TO BE CORPORATE CITIZENS,
THEY WOULD BE BRIBING FEWER
DECEMBERAND
DECEMBERAND WORKING IN GOVERNMENT
ENVIRONMENTS THAT WERE ANSWERING
MORE TO THEIR CITIZENS AND LESS
TO THE INDUSTRY.
THOSE KINDS OF CHANGES ARE
WITHIN OUR GRASP.
THEY’RE WITHIN OUR GRASP IF THEY
CHANGE HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. >> BUT IT IS NOT LIKE WE’RE
NAMING OIL COMPANY CEOs TO
SECRETARY OF STATE OR ANYTHING,
SOMETHING I HEARD YOU SAY IN AN
INTERVIEW RECENTLY IN EFFECT
THAT YOU STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN
OTHER.
OTHER. >> NO.
>> NO. REX TILLERSON IS AN AMAZING
CHARACTER.
CHARACTER. BUT HE DID A HALF TRILLION
DOLLAR OIL DEAL WITH RUSSIA THAT
WAS PUT ON ICE BECAUSE OF
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. PUTIN GAVE HIM A MEDAL.
EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP AND REX
TILLERSON HAD NEVER MET OTHER
AND DIDN’T GET ALONG, ALL OF A
SUDDEN REX TILLERSON ENDED UP
BEING THE NEXT GUY IN CHARGE OF
U.S. POLICY.
U.S. POLICY. IT IS A REALLY, REALLY WEIRD
THING THAT WE STILL DON’T HAVE A
GREAT EXPLANATION FOR, EVEN AS
GOOD AS I GOT TO KNOW REX
TILLERSON OVER THE COURSE.
>> THANK YOU, MY FRIEND.
THANK YOU FOR HANGING OUT LATER
THAN YOUR NORMAL SHIFT.
>> IT’S ALL RIGHT.
>> HERE IS THE BOOK.