(upbeat music)
>> Narrator: From Barcelona, Spain.
It´s theCUBE.
Covering Cisco Live 2018.
Brought to you by
Cisco
Veeam
and theCUBE´s ecosystem partners.
>> Everyone, welcome back to theCUBE´s exclusive
live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain
with Cisco´s Live 2018 Europe.
I was going to say DevNet,
but we´re on the DevNet zone.
I´m John Furrier, your host,
with Stu Miniman, analyst at Wikibon.com .
Our next guest is Susie Wee,
who´s Vice-President, CTO of DevNet.
Susie, CUBE alumni, welcome back to theCUBE,
great to see you.
>> Great to see you, welcome to Barcelona.
>> John: Thank you for having us,
we´re in the hot section of the Devnet Zone,
the signs, cause it´s a big part of
the hallway here.
And it´s really where the action is.
>> Susie: It is.
>> You guys have continued to do a great job
and we´re psyched to be on the ground where the action is.
Thanks for inviting us.
>> Great, I´m glad that you´re here.
There´s so much going on. >> Okay, so Devnet is
this renaissance going on at Cisco.
But it´s also not just a Cisco phenomenon,
the world of software development
is seeing an explosion.
I mean, from the edge of the network,
and crazy fringe of cryptocurrency, blockchain,
all the way into app development and then
under the hood DevOps.
Some really great things are happening,
you have it featured here, DevOps, at Devnet.
What´s going on at the DevNet zone?
>> Yeah, it´s really interesting because what happens is
here at Cisco live and here in the DevNet zone,
we have basically people who deployed
network and Compute Infrastructures,
around Europe.
And so, it´s pretty amazing that we have the people
who are like feet on the street, working in those
networks, deploying them, digitizing Smart Cities,
putting up new buildings,
putting up new infrastructure everywhere.
And, what´s really cool is, they´re all interested
in learning about APIs and software.
And, so, that´s not easy, right?
That´s something that´s a big shift in,
like, I´m running a network infrastructure,
and I´m ready to learn about software
and deep-dive into APIs.
So, our new products are coming out,
which actually have built-in programmability.
Like, the network now has APIs, it´s getting built
into the network.
And whereas you could always like take
a Compute Infrastructure and manage it virtually,
use, you know, CICD pipelines
and everything there with DevOps.
But the thing is, now the Network has APIs
and you can now kind of flexibly deploy your network
in that same way of DevOps but using Net DevOps,
and that´s kind of what it´s all about.
>> Yeah, Susie, I wonder, there was so much hype
for a bunch of years about like,
software to find networking.
(Susie laughs)
But, under the covers, like behind the scenes,
you know, it´s the API economy.
That´s where the actions happen, it doesn´t seem
like it´s gotten quite the attention,
you have some interesting things
about where Net and Dev go together.
What do people miss out there, that, you know,
kind of the industry watchers, that, you know,
aren´t here, aren´t seeing the people that are,
you know, been spending days already doing stuff here.
>> Susie: Yeah.
>> And obviously you´re really excited.
>> Well there was all the kind of excitement
and hype, you know, it kind of went through
it´s hype curve of what software-defined networking was
and would be and could be.
But the thing that we have to remember is that
there´s like real mission critical networks operating
all around the world and people who are out there,
who deploy them and run them and manage them.
And so, what happens is,
you need to do more than just like
put out a new protocol or put out a new innovation.
You need to kind of bring the community along
and kind of still make those revolutions, but,
by evolving, right, having the evolutions
and the folks who are deploying
and making all the right thing happen.
So, what happens is, just SDN is now
becoming a reality.
Because, it took more than just putting a controller
on top of an existing network,
like, that´s good, that´s an important part of it.
But, it´s also just building programmability
into the network elements themselves.
And then, being able to get that really
kind of rapid responses.
You´re, you know, deploying new configuration,
setting policy, incorporating security, you know.
And so, now, just SDN is becoming real
and the real world here, all of these folks
are picking it all up.
>> So I have to ask you, you mentioned Net DevOps,
cause, you, we love, we´ve talked about DevOps
all day long, Stu and I,
with all the shows
and, you know, we´re hop the trot for DevOps.
But you said Net DevOps.
>> Susie: Yeah.
>> What is that?
(Susie laughs)
>> Can you explain?
>> Yeah, it´s really awesome, it´s just basically
the fact that, you know, with DevOps you´re taking
your applications, cloud applications,
deploying them fast, right?
Rapidly, CICD, using this infrastructure-as-code
type of thinking.
Well now, it´s not only the Compute
but the network plays in that too.
So, basically, if you picture underneath that network
is a bunch of network devices, a bunch of security,
you know, products, all of these things are
coming together to really connect everything.
And, that´s becoming programmable.
And what happens is now with Net DevOps
you can create and treat the network as code.
So, you want to deploy changes in your network,
you´ll do it with a software configuration update.
You know, you want to like, add new devices
into the network.
You want to add new users and set new policies
for security, control how apps are done,
how cloud, you know, applications are running.
You can actually roll that out as software changes.
So, what happens is suddently,
it´s not only Compute that works in a DevOps pipeline,
but the network is also participating
in this Net DevOps pipeline.
>> You know, I love this new trend, Net DevOps,
because it´s kind of like, the old days was
you moved up the stack.
Now you see the movement down the stack
from the applications, to DevOps, now moving lower
to NetOps, Net DevOps.
>> Susie: Yes.
>> But the question is, that makes still no sense,
by the way, but I need to ask.
Who´s writing that code?
The network guys?
So, in DevOps, we knew who the DevOps guys were,
it was the operators and the developers
kind of coming together.
>> Susie: Yeah.
>> Yeah, pushing code, real agile.
Who does that, the same guys doing DevOps?
Or is it the network guys, a combination oh both?
Would you...
>> Oh, my God.
>> A lot of people. (says in foreign language)
>> Yeah, it´s really exciting the way that
it´s evolving.
So, what you see is, you know,
in Cisco Live, we have a huge kind of community,
just people who come to Cisco Live to get trained,
to get their certifications on how to deploy
the latest networking technologies
and operate, manage them.
They get certified and their running those networks
around the world.
They´re now here, picking up the software skills
and learning to use these,
the new software products,
and being able to deploy in Net DevOps.
So, they´re all here to learn about how can I put
built-in automation.
You know, once you have that programmability
and automation you can scale and work things out
in really big ways.
How can I put applications performance monitoring
into my network?
You know, and make sure that it´s operating properly
and we´re getting the right assurance
that it´s performing well.
So, the network operators, are picking up those skills.
But, in addition, there´s actually the app developers,
who are coming in and app developers who are writing,
for example, management or DevOps or even,
you know, Docker, Kubernetes.
Folks who are in that, who need the network.
And basically now they´re like "the network
has APIs, I can actually use that, so that,
if I, you know, for Docker and for Kubernetes,
you know, we´re working with Google on stuff.
Our developers are actually now writing tools
to make sure that, as you´re optimizing
your microservices,
the placement of them, you´re taking the network
into account as well.
>> So you kind of get both. >> So it´s interesting,
and Kubernetes plays an interesting role
because you can actually run those functions
>> Susie: Yes.
>> On Kubernetes, can´t you?
>> Susie: Yes.
>> So that´s kind of a new trend.
>> Susie: Yeah.
>> Who´s, I mean, so they´re writing code
in here, in DevNet Zone?
Or is that, the network operators are coming in
banging out code?
>> So, network operator are here
banging out code.
There´s app developers who are coming in
and banging out code as well.
And this whole thing of like,
you know, the infrastructure guys,
the app developer guys.
And then, the DevOps. There´s this DevOps professional,
kind of like the IT folks that are moving on
to embrace DevOps
and they´re kind of emerging in the middle of here
to use all of these tools that are created
in open source.
>> So you´re appealing to all constituency stakeholders
of software.
>> We are, we are, yeah.
(laughs)
>> We are, and actually I that some...
>> Is that why DevNet´s so popular?
(laughs)
>> I think that people have a need, they see a need
and (laughs), and basically what I think,
like the trend that´s going on that´s kind of making
this stuff happen,
is that, we know there´s so much exciting,
excitement in applications and cloud
and all of the developments there,
and the internet of things.
These applications need the network
more than ever before.
So, before, they only used the network
for connectivity, but now they need the network
for security.
They need it for scale.
They do need more bandwidth, they need good performance.
And, so...
>> John: And they need to program that too.
>> And they need to program it, exactly.
And so, that´s what the new network APIs,
the fact that you have a programmable network
is what´s letting those guys play.
And not just say, you know, before it was
"here´s your network, like, just do the most you can,
given the performance of the network", right?
>> So Susie, first of all... >> But now it´s programmable.
>> Congratulations on, you know, the DevNet Zone here
is awesome.
>> Susie: Thank you.
>> And, we know it´s challenging to bring developers in
and to, you know, pull this community in
where, they might not have been before,
there´s retraining everything,
but, I was wondering if you can give us
a little inside into Cisco.
So, Cisco, you know, has been around for decades.
Networking company.
Software has been a piece of it for a long time,
I mean, it´s, you know, even when it´s, you know,
"hey, we spent a lot of money on building
this chip out there",
I was who´s what drove that.
Software´s a large piece but, the whole
developer angle, getting Cisco behind this,
give us a little bit of inside as
for what kind of transformation, you know,
your team has driven inside to get more
of Cisco onboard.
I mean, you know, people that are used
to selling boxes, and things that, you know,
the networking industry is about ports
and cables and speeds and feeds and,
you know, apps are very different.
>> It is, it is very different
and it´s, um, it was actually really great.
So we´ve built DevNet over the last four years.
And it was one thing to kind of have
a strategy, like, we knew that the products
were going to software, that SDN was emerging.
And that, the only way it could actually become
real is for Cisco to also participate in it, right?
Just cause there´s so much network out there
that is Cisco.
And so, the entire industry has made that
become more real.
But, you need to build an ecosystem around it, right?
The only reason that it´d have software,
like, there´s many reasons, but one of the main reasons
is actually to make sure that the ecosystem
is participating in the innovation.
So, yeah, we created DevNet to,
not just focus on our internal development
but to provide and kind of catalyze the industry
to participate and really innovate
and build software on top using all the new APIs.
So, um, so yeah, it´s been,
it´s been amazing to see the growth
and what´s interesting is,
over the last 4 years,
it´s the community.
So, from our first DevNet Zone
we had a lot of people who are interested.
You know, they´re all like, ah!
You know, my day job´s been networking.
I coded a long time ago, let me get back into it.
But now we see that audience, plus much more.
Like, if you look at here at how engaged all of these
kind of networkers and developers are,
is, they´re right in there.
They´re just hungry saying, you know, I have applications
that I need to deploy.
Applications are hitting the infrastructure.
My network can make a difference in how well
these new applications run.
They´re all in. >> Susie, you´ve done this
you´ve done this a number of times, now.
Do you have like, kind of the hero numbers
as to a what percentage of the attendees
you know, spend a bunch of time in the DevNet zone,
how much code or applications get written?
Just, kind of order of magnitude.
>> Susie: Oh.
>> Kind of the engagement.
>> You mean like, kind of like, from before til now?
>> Yeah, well, pr just, you know, what expectations...
>> Yeah.
>> For this show, what you´ve seen at some
of the previous events.
>> Yeah, well, kind of what´s funny is,
what happened is,
the DevNet Zone, like having a developer conference
within Cisco Live,
it kind of grew as like a "What´s going on there?".
And people where immediately interested, it was full.
But we have just kind of grown and grown it
to have learning labs, to have ISV partners in here,
to have just kind of, like, you know, resellers.
People who are solutions providers,
they are kind of all here.
This has, actually turned into the busiest
area of Cisco Live.
>> Yeah, and you´ve got your own events, too.
>> Yes, yes, that´s right.
And on top of like having the DevNet Zone here,
our developer conference within Cisco Live,
what other Cisco audience comes in, right?
A huge ecosystem.
But also have DevNet Create.
So, when we´re going out,
app developers are also interested in network APIs.
So, it´s not just networkers.
And, so, we actually have DevNet Create,
which is just the dedicated developer conference
for IOT, cloud developers, app developers.
And they´ve shown big interest
in all of this as well.
>> And this is a whole new constituency,
but it´s kind of the same game, though, right?
It´s like, you offering the programmable network
to a whole another net new Cisco community?
Is that kind of like you guys look at it?
>> It is, and, exactly.
And like, we´ve gone outside,
we´re offering the network.
And what we´re doing is, we´re actually,
you know, when you´re a real networking geek,
like a networking expert.
>> John: Like us.
>> You can do network talk, right?
And you´re talking network, and you´re kind of getting
into all of that.
And before app developers were like,
we don´t care about that, like, just,
we need to write our apps.
We shouldn´t have to worry about the network.
But, now that those APIs are coming too,
and again, their apps are dependent
on network performance, they´re dependent on security
they can get from the network.
It turns out that once we express the value
proposition to them, like, this is what
a network API can do for you.
They´re really interested.
>> And even though that we´ve observed that there´s
a separation between app developers
who just want to write apps
>> Susie: Yep
>> And software engineering, which is under the hood
they still need to be involved in the network
because of microservices.
>> Susie: Yes.
>> So now they have the ability to use APIs
that they´re comfortable with, they know ABIs.
And, make unique changes to the app,
based upon unique network characteristics
they can tap into.
>> Yeah.
>> John: This seems to be the glue in
the crossover point for you guys.
>> It is.
>> John: Did I get that right?
>> It is, it is.
So, what happens is, there will always be
a set of app developers, who of course,
are not going to use the network.
They´re going to write their app, they´re going to want
it to deploy everywhere, of course.
I mean, that´s what everybody wants.
But you´ve already seen it.
As someone writes a cloud app, right?
They write a cloud service or a cloud app,
and it scales,
and they´re deploying their app across different
clusters and
>> They are learning a lot >> John: They´re going to write
>> About what´s going on >> John: They´re going to write
policy.
>> They´re going to write policies >> Yeah
>> They have to decide what countries
am I going to spin up my servers in, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> So, actually, they do a lot of that.
So, what happens is, this set of kind
of cloud developers, and specially as they moved
to microservices as you said, their applications
are going to a microservices-based architecture.
Things can spin up in different places
and then it becomes more critical of,
you know, how do these different containers
talk to each other?
What´s the networking policy for what data
can go in and out?
What´s the security policy?
And, you need to build that in.
So, the network matters to them.
>> Well, a beautiful thing about what you guys
are doing is, you´re catering to a whole new
generation of developers who are
slinging APIs on one end, but also potentially
writing Node.js code.
And so, the´re very familiar with IO.
>> Susie: Exactly, yes.
>> So, microservices is like fish to water.
And so, you´re just making it easier
>> Susie: Yes.
>> for them.
That´s the, that´s the angle on the app side.
>> That´s right, and then we´re just giving
them that tool.
And they had so much pain with it before
because a lot of times people would be like
writing their app, right?
They´re doing it in their cluster, then they push
it to production.
Boom, it goes out.
And then, it doesn´t work anymore.
And a lot of times it´s because
the network is not set up properly in their new thing.
So they blame the network and the blame...
But, once you start to open up the APIs,
you can start to move these things and do it, you know...
>> Well, Susie, you´ve got a great group.
It´s the biggest story here.
We believe, we´ve been reporting DevNet Zone.
You know, theCUBE, we´re always
on the best trends and the best waves, you´re on it.
>> By the way, have you seen the security
challenge over here?
>> The blackhat
>> So,the blackhat, white hat security challenge?
It´s actually pretty interesting.
(John laughs)
>> It shows...
>> John: Well, we´ll have to go test our chops, too.
>> That´s right, that´s right.
>> John: Dust off those coding hands.
>> That´s right. (laughs)
>> We´ll go over there.
Well, I love the tagline,
all around these classrooms.
Learn, code, inspire and connect.
>> Yes.
>> Great motto, cause you´re building community
in one end, and educating on the other spectrum.
So, education to community,
great spectrum.
Congratulations.
>> Thank you.
>> Susie Wee, Vice-President and CTO of DevNet,
here at Cisco, doing a great job.
This is where the action is.
This is the transformation of Cisco.
It´s becoming software and network DevOps.
New term, Net DevOps, heard here on theCUBE.
I´m John Furrier and Stu Miniman.
We´ll be back with more live coverage,
in Barcelona, Spain
after this short break.
(upbeat music)