>>> LIGHTING THE FUSE. LET’S PLAY "HARDBALL."
GOOD EVENING.
GOOD EVENING. I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS IN WASHINGTON
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. WE’RE AWAITING WORD FROM LAWYERS
REPRESENTING CHRISTINE BLASEY
FORD ON WHETHER OR NOT SHE WILL
TESTIFY BEFORE THE SENATE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE NEXT WEEK.
THE SENATE REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN
OF THE COMMITTEE HAS SAID A
DEADLINE OF 10:00 P.M. TONIGHT
FOR HER LAWYERS TO RESPOND AND
SAID THE COMMITTEE WILL VOTE ON
THIS CONFIRMATION ON MONDAY IF
FORD’S LAWYERS DO NOT MEET THE
DEADLINE OR IF SHE DECIDES NOT
TO TESTIFY.
TO TESTIFY. SO WE COULD BE HAVING A VOTE
THIS MONDAY.
THIS MONDAY. WE’RE GOING GET TO THAT NEXT
WITH A FRIEND OF DR. FORD’S WHO
IS A FELLOW STUDENT.
BUT THE OTHER BREAKING STORY IS
THAT THE FUSE HAS BEEN LIT I
BELIEVE FOR A SATURDAY NIGHT
MASSACRE.
MASSACRE. FOR OVER A YEAR NOW PRESIDENT
TRUMP HAS BEEN SEARCHING FOR A
WAY TO GET RED OF SPECIAL
COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER, AND NOW
IT LOOKS LIKE HE MAY HAVE FOUND
THAT FUSE.
THAT FUSE. THAT’S BECAUSE THE ONLY MAN WITH
THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY OVER THE
MUELLER PROBE IS ONCE AGAIN IN
TRUMP’S CROSSHAIRS.
TRUMP’S CROSSHAIRS. THE "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED
TODAY WHAT THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY
GENERAL ROD ROSENSTEIN SUGGESTED
LAST YEAR THAT HE SECRETLY
RECORD PRESIDENT TRUMP, SECRETLY
RECORD HIM IN THE WHITE HOUSE TO
EXPOSE THE CHAOS CONSUMING HIS
ADMINISTRATION, AND HE DISCUSSED
RECRUITING CABINET MEMBERS TO
INVOKE THE 25th AMENDMENT TO
REMOVE MR. TRUMP FROM OFFICE FOR
BEING UNFIT.
BEING UNFIT. ROSENSTEIN’S REMARKS CAME IN A
MEETING WITH JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
AND FBI OFFICIALS JUST ONE WEEK
AFTER THE PRESIDENT’S FIRING OF
JAMES COMEY.
JAMES COMEY. THE ACCOUNT OF WHAT HAPPENED IS
ATTRIBUTED TO PEOPLE BRIEFED ON
THE MEETING AS WELL AS PEOPLE
FAMILIAR WITH THE CONTENT OF
MEMOS DOCUMENTING ROSENSTEIN’S
COMMENTS.
COMMENTS. HOWEVER, OTHER SOURCES FAMILIAR
WITH THAT CONVERSATION TELL A
DIFFERENT STORY TO MSNBC NEWS,
SAYING THAT ROSENSTEIN’S REMARKS
WERE NOT MEANT SERIOUSLY.
ONE SENIOR JUSTICE OFFICIAL WHO
WAS IN THE ROOM FOR THE MEETING
SAID THIS STATEMENT WAS
SARCASTIC AND WAS NEVER
DISCUSSED WITH ANY INTENTION OF
RECORDING A CONVERSATION WITH
THE PRESIDENT, YET "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" FURTHER NOTES THAT
ROSENSTEIN ALSO DISCUSSED
RECORDING THE PRESIDENT,
RECORDING THE PRESIDENT IN THE
OVAL OFFICE ON OTHER OCCASION,
AT LEAST ONE OTHER OCCASION.
IN A STATEMENT EARLIER TODAY,
ROSENSTEIN CALLED THE REPORT
INACCURATE AND FACTUALLY
INCORRECT, ADDING THAT IT’S
BASED ON ANONYMOUS SOURCES WHO
ARE OBVIOUSLY BIASED AGAINST THE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. AND HE SAID, THIS IS ROSENSTEIN,
BASED ON MY PERSONAL DEALINGS
WITH THE PRESIDENT, THERE IS NO
BASIS TO INVOKE THE 25th
AMENDMENT.
AMENDMENT. WHATEVER ROSENSTEIN’S INTENT,
THE DISPUTE OVER WHAT WAS SAID
OR HOW IT WAS SAID IS NOT LIKELY
TO DETER THIS PRESIDENT IF HE IS
INTENT ON CLEANING HOUSE AT THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. JOINED RIGHT NOW IS THE AUTHOR
OF THAT STORY, MICHAEL SCHMIDT
OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
MICHAEL GRISEHOLME.
MICHAEL GRISEHOLME. I CAN ONLY BELIEVE IF TRUMP
KNOWS THAT HE ALREADY KNOWS FROM
THIS REPORT THAT ROSENSTEIN WAS
TALKING ABOUT GOING TO INVOKE
THE 25th AMENDMENT, THAT HE WAS
TALKING ABOUT WIRING HIMSELF ON
TWO OCCASIONS TO GO IN AND SEE
THE PRESIDENT, AND BASICALLY
TAUGHT THE PRESIDENT THAT HE IS
ON HIS WAY OUT.
>> IS THE PRESIDENT GOING TO
LOOK AT THIS AND SAY FAKE NEWS
BECAUSE HE IS VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT THE 25th AMENDMENT?
THIS IS A BIG ISSUE FOR HIM.
HE DOES NOT LIKE THAT.
A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM THE WHITE
HOUSE ON THAT, TRYING TO GET US
TO NOT WRITE ABOUT THAT.
IS HE JUST SIMPLY GOING TO LUMP
ALL THAT IN THE SAME BASKET,
THIS IS JUST A FAKE STORY.
I DON’T CARE ABOUT IT.
OR IS HE GOING TO HAVE A LARGER
ISSUE WITH ROSENSTEIN.
WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT IS ALREADY
CONSIDERING BEFORE THE STORY
CAME OUT FINDING NEW LEADERSHIP
AT THE TOP OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. HE’S GOING TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER
THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS TO PUT
SOMEONE ELSE IN.
THIS IS SOMETHING HE HAS WANTED
TO DO SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HIS
PRESIDENCY, SINCE ATTORNEY
GENERAL SESSIONS RECUSED HIMSELF
FROM THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
SO HERE WE ARE NOW.
THE PRESIDENT MAYBE HAS SOME
AMMUNITION.
AMMUNITION. MAYBE HE DOESN’T.
IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.
WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM YET
HE’S HAD SEVERAL PUBLIC
APPEARANCES TODAY.
APPEARANCES TODAY. >> JULIA, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
HAS SWEEPING DISCRETION AS THE
WHAT TO PROSECUTE.
WHY WOULDN’T THE PRESIDENT USE
THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY WITHIN A
COUPLE OF WEEKS TO SIMPLY SAY
YOU KNOW WHAT?
I’M GETTING RID OF SESSIONS WHO
I DON’T THINK ANYTHING OF.
I’M GOING GET RID OF ROSENSTEIN.
I’M GOING FIND A WAY TO PLUMBER
MY WAY, FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT
PLUMBING SYSTEM THAT GETS ME TO
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT
MUELLER AND QUASH THIS DAMN
THING, BECAUSE I DON’T WANT MY
SONS, I DON’T WANT MY
SON-IN-LAW, I DON’T WANT MY
DAUGHTER PROSECUTED, I DON’T
WANT MY SON PROSECUTED.
THE FASTEST WAY TO DO THAT IS TO
GET RID OF THE TEAM THAT SEEMS
INTENT ON PROSECUTING ME.
>> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT, CHRIS.
THIS ARTICLE COULD BE HANDING
EXACTLY THE AMMUNITION HE WOULD
NEED TO CARRY OUT THAT KIND OF
SATURDAY NIGHT MASSACRE THAT
YOU’RE DESCRIBING, ESPECIALLY
WHEN YOU PUT IN THE CONTEXT THAT
THE FACT THAT HIS PERSONAL
LAWYER IS NOW COOPERATING WITH
MUELLER’S TEAM AND PAUL
MANAFORT, HIS FORMER CAMPAIGN
MANAGER HAS FLIPPED AND IS NOW
COOPERATING AS WELL THERE A LOT
OF PRESSURE ON HIM RIGHT NOW,
WHICH IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. BUT, CHRIS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE
CALENDAR, WE ARE JUST A LITTLE
MORE THAN A MONTH OUT FROM 2018
MIDTERMS.
MIDTERMS. AND IT’S SORT OF BEEN AN
ASSUMPTION FOR SOME TIME THAT
THE PRESIDENT WOULD WAIT UNTIL
AFTER THE 2018 MIDTERMS TO FIRE
JEFF SESSIONS AND THE
POTENTIALLY ROD ROSENSTEIN AS
WELL, THAT HE DIDN’T WANT THIS
AT THIS TIME IT WOULD BE HARD TO
GET SOMEBODY CONFIRMED IN THIS
KIND OF ENVIRONMENT THE TAKE
THAT PLACE.
THAT PLACE. AS WE KNOW, THE NUMBER THREE
RIGHT NOW IS IN AN ACTING
POSITION.
POSITION. SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO FALL WAY
DOWN THE TOTEM POLE TO THE
SOLICITOR GENERAL.
SOLICITOR GENERAL. YOU WOULD REALLY HAVE A JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT WEAKENED AT THE KNEES
IF HE DECIDED TO FIRE THESE
PEOPLE OVERNIGHT.
PEOPLE OVERNIGHT. >> WELL, THE PRESIDENT’S SON
SPEAKING OF HIM, DONALD TRUMP
JR., IS ALREADY FANNING THE
FLAMES TODAY AFTER THIS REPORT
CAME OUT, TWEETING, SHOCKED,
ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!
ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED! WHO ARE WE KIDDING AT THIS
POINT?
POINT? NO ONE IS SHOCKED THAT THESE
GUYS WOULD DO ANYTHING IN THEIR
POWER TO UNDERMINE DONALD TRUMP.
HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. HE IS TALKING ABOUT ROD
ROSENSTEIN.
ROSENSTEIN. AND LATE TONIGHT, THE DAILY
BEAST REPORTED THAT CURRENT AND
FORMER ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS
SAID THAT THEY FULLY EXPECTED
PRESIDENT TRUMP TO DISMISS STAFF
INSIDE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
LESS CLEAR WAS HOW MANY PEOPLE
WILL GET THE AX AND WHEN EXACTLY
IT WILL FALL.
GIVE US A SENSE OF THIS, BECAUSE
TRUMP TALKS ABOUT THE POWER OF
THE PRESIDENT UNDER THE SECOND
ARTICLE, ARTICLE 2 OF THE
CONSTITUTION AS SWEEPING, THAT
HE IS THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIAL OF THE LAW, THAT HE IS
IN CHARGE OF ALL EXECUTIVE
AUTHORITY IN THIS COUNTRY, THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. THAT’S HIS INTERPRETATION OF
THINGS.
THINGS. WHY WOULDN’T HE ACT IN ACCORD
WITH THAT AND JUST TAKE OVER
THIS PROSECUTION?
THIS PROSECUTION? >> WELL, SADLY, THING IS ONE
MORE EXAMPLE THAT THE PRESIDENT
DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE
CONSTITUTION FULLY.
CONSTITUTION FULLY. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS NOT
HIS LAW FIRM.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS NOT HIS
PERSONAL LAWYER.
PERSONAL LAWYER. AND IT SEEMS THAT FOR MONTHS,
WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT NOT HAVING
HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL AND HOW SAD
IT IS, IT’S NOT HIS ATTORNEY
GENERAL.
GENERAL. IT’S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT
REPRESENTS THE INTERESTS OF THE
UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO ROD FOR
A SECOND, AND I THINK THIS IS
SOMETHING PEOPLE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND.
UNDERSTAND. I KNOW IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
ARTICLE THEY MADE REFERENCE TO
IT.
IT. ROD IS A CAREER GUY.
HE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE 1990.
HE SERVED AS U.S. ATTORNEY IN
MARYLAND FOR 12 YEARS.
HE WAS APPOINTED BY GEORGE W.
BUSH.
BUSH. HE WAS ASKED TO STAY OVER BY
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
PRESIDENT OBAMA. AND I CAN TELL YOU DURING THE
TIME I SERVED WITH ROD AS A U.S.
ATTORNEY, I CAN NEVER RECALL HIM
TALKING ABOUT POLITICS AT ALL.
BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT
ROD IS HE HAS A VERY DRY SENSE
OF HUMOR.
OF HUMOR. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> AND WHEN I READ THAT, THERE