- My next guest is an award-winning journalist
we all know and love.
In her new BET show Disrupt & Dismantle,
she takes a deeper look at systemic racism
and the steps we can take to achieve lasting change.
Check it out.
- Attacking the issues head on.
- Children are out here, and fighting for their lives.
- [Soledad O'Brien] Making it right.
Is it as simple as money?
- Yes.
We need more funding.
- [Soledad O'Brien] Real action.
- She was absolutely denied her basic human rights.
- [Soledad O'Brien] Standing by is no longer an option.
- This shouldn't be happening.
And it's just wrong.
- [Voiceover] Disrupt and Dismantle,
hosted by Soledad O'Brien.
- Wow. Please welcome Soledad O'Brien everybody.
(upbeat talk show music)
(audience cheering)
- I matched it to the blue on your dress.
- [Kelly Clarkson] I literally,
I literally just painted a,
my whole, my living room that color
'cause I think it's such a great, peaceful great color.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- And it brightens everything up.
- You look beautiful.
- Thank you. Likewise.
And likewise. And likewise.
- Thank you for coming on the show.
So what made you wanna do a show like this?
You wanna see change?
- [Soledad O'Brien] Yeah, and I think
we felt the time was right.
I think in the, the wake of the killing of George Floyd,
I noticed, and I think a lot of other people did too,
that the conversation around race, and racism
was, was changing.
That people across the board, not just black people,
but all people were like, we need to figure this out.
- No, and it's actually a really important time I think
to do it right now because I think a lot of people
that didn't know things are happening.
Like that, you can't change them,
unless you know it exists, you know?
But you say it's, it's important to highlight
how systems are often the root of injustice,
so can you explain that?
- Yeah, well systems are complicated.
Right, in a way, it's almost easier to say,
"Well that person did this, and that person did this."
But systems are big and overwhelming
and how do you think about the system that keeps people
in an unequal plane?
For example, my mom and dad came to this country.
My mom was Afro-Cuban, black and Cuban.
My dad was white and Australian.
When they moved into their neighborhood,
no one would sell them a house
because they would not allow black people
to move into their neighborhood.
That, that's a system, right.
That's not even individuals.
That's a system that changed over time.
And so we wanted to both look at,
at history, what put these systems in place,
and then also look at, okay well if it's a system
and it's big and complicated, I think there's a real
tendency to be like, "Well that's just.
That's overwhelming."
- [Kelly Clarkson] Overwhelming, yeah.
- I can't manage that by myself.
And we wanted to show people how you could disrupt
and dismantle systems.
What specific things you could do.
- [Kelly Clarkson] I actually love that about this
because you're not only providing what the problems are,
you're providing solutions right?
- Yeah, and it's really easy to admire problems
like yeah, well, that is bad.
That is depressing.
- [Kelly Clarkson] But like what the hell do you do?
- [Soledad O'Brien] Exactly. Exactly.
And so we wanted to provide a real, you know, map.
There are ways, and sometimes those ways are,
get involved in politics,
figure out zoning.
Understand who you're elected officials are.
Can you name them?
Do you have their numbers?
What are your rights in terms of what you're
trying to change in your community.
- [Kelly Clarkson] Yeah. Agreed, agreed.
Well, one of the episodes focuses on infant mortality.
So can you tell us more about that?
- [Soledad O'Brien] Yeah.
You know, if you look at the disparity
between black women and white women when it comes
to maternal mortality, and infant mortality.
- [Kelly Clarkson] I have actually heard of this.
- The numbers are terrible.
Black women are three to four times more likely,
three to four times more likely to die in childbirth.
It mean, it's, it's crazy.
So we wanted to understand that.
And what you really see pretty clearly pretty quickly
is that there are these sort of racial
and systemic racism that sort of influences outcomes
for women and also their infants as well,
the infant mortality numbers are terrible too.
And so we wanted to explore what was happening
around infant mortality.
The stories are terrible, and they go from women
not getting good access to health care,
women living in healthcare deserts,
where they're just not anywhere close
to good places to get healthcare.
And also, a lot of black women reported doctors
just not really listening to them.
There're lots of studies that say doctors and others
believe black women have a higher tolerance for pain.
So we're really interested
in exploring, well what exactly is involved?
Sometimes it's just access to, to better systems
around funding for healthcare, et cetera, et cetera.
So we looked at this and thought,
okay, here's the problem, it's fully documented.
We know a lot of the reasons. How do you solve it?
There was nothing unusual about Kim's pregnancy,
and the delivery was normal.
Yet, three days after giving birth,
Kim's health took a drastic turn.
- [Family Member] Like she couldn't see well,
and she kept having a lot of headaches.
We had talked to this doctor about sending her to Memphis
several times trying to figure out
what was going on with her.
But he decided not to send her.
So she continued to deteriorate.
- Wow, welcome back.
That was a clip from Disrupt & Dismantle.
And I'm here with the host of the show Soledad O'Brien.
Give it up for her everybody.
(audience applauding)
So in that episode, Soledad examined
the infant mortality rates in Mississippi.
We have two of the women from that episode
joining us right now.
Everybody please welcome sisters Notoya and Nikitra.
(audience applauding)
Hi ladies.
- Hi.
- Hey.
- Well first of all, I have to start with this,
you both look beautiful with the colors you're wearing
and your smiles are gorgeous.
- Oh well, thank you.
- Yeah. Absolutely.
I was like, "Wow, y'all look like little lights
on the screen."
Well Notoya, I'll, I'll start with you.
You started researching infant mortality
after losing your baby, right?
Can you tell us what happened?
- [Notoya] Yeah sure.
So in February of 2016,
I was about 25 weeks pregnant at the time,
and I started experiencing some like upper-quadrant pain.
So fast forward, you know, we went to the emergency room.
Of course I was quickly seen,
but in a matter of literally minutes,
we were, you know, we were, we realized
that things were taking a turn for the worst.
I was told that I would be transferred
to Jackson Mississippi,
which is two hours away from Starkville.
And I would probably deliver there
or stay there until delivery.
And so, I later found out that
the University of Mississippi Medical Center
is the only level four NICU in this state.
And two days later, I delivered Jordan
via emergency C-Section at 25 weeks, one day,
weighing a whopping one pound and one ounce.
- [Kelly Clarkson] Wow.
- [Notoya] And so, after Jordan passed at eight months old,
my husband and I started thinking about, you know,
we knew that we couldn't prevent this from happening
to another child, but if we could ease the burden
of a family going through it,
then that's what, you know, we were like,
maybe we were chosen for this path for a reason
and so what will we do going forward?
And so in combination with the
University of Mississippi Medical Center
in Jackson Mississippi, we formed a family advisory board.
And so it's made up
of current NICU parents, former NICU parents.
Nurses, hospital administration, social workers.
And we basically serve as a support
for, you know, parents going through the NICU journey.
- [Kelly Clarkson] That's amazing.
I was literally gonna say, "Power in numbers."
Like making that, having that network
of people that support from, from people,
especially from the professionals that you have in that,
that network environment too, telling you,
you know their expertise, this might be happening,
this might be, you know what I'm saying?
Like having that group to kind of go to.
Nikitra you, you've looked at the infant mortality crisis
from another perspective right?
- [Nikitra] Yeah.
So, I, I've been in public health for about 13 years now,
and most of my career has been
in sexual and reproductive health.
And so, when you think about reproductive health,
that of course includes reproductive rights,
and pregnancy labor delivery.
I kind of took my family lens off and started trying
to look at this from a public health perspective
because this wasn't just a strange turn of events
for our family, it's happening across the country.
And so, I was trying to figure out how,
how do we fix this?
What do we do?
And so I started looking at the system.
And that's where the issue lies.
We can tell a woman to say, "I'm hurting.
I need this. I feel this way."
But if a doctor's not listening to her,
then that's a problem.
If we have our moms healthy,
then we can get our babies healthy.
But, in order to do that,
we really have to address systemic racism,
and all of those barriers that keep a woman
from being able to navigate that system
of healthcare in a way that gets her out
on the other side and gives her
this great experience of childbirth.
We, we always see childbirth in this,
you know, this great experience.
But, it's so complex for black mothers
that we don't get that opportunity.
And so that's the lens that I look at it from.
- That's what I'm, that's why it's unfortunate
that doctors really don't listen
because it is so different.
Even with the same woman,
my two pregnancies were very different.
You have no idea, like what's, what's happening.
And it could be a, a plethora of,
of things, you know, happening.
So I, I'm, I'm so sorry and I,
I wanna say this so.
Soledad, you, you see hope that,
the infant mortality rate can be reduced, right?
- Yeah, look at these two sisters
who could be doing a 100 other things
and instead have decided to dedicate their lives
to making change, because they know
it's not just their story,
it's the story of a lot of black women.
A lot of women, and a lot of black women.
And I think there's always hope when you have people
first,
deciding to have a difficult conversation.
What is the data?
What are the facts?
What do we know?
In Mississippi, they track this now,
because people deserve to understand the data.
And really it's what our whole entire show is about.
We deserve to understand the data,
and after you do that,
you can say, "Okay, now we know, what do we do to change?"
- [Kelly Clarkson] Yeah. And how is information ever bad?
And that's my thing, is like, the more information
we, the more conversations, the more information we have,
the, the more we can progress.
- Yeah.
- Thank you for doing what you're doing
to help, you know, not only your family, but everyone.
You're trying to, to affect change, that ripple effect
is gonna hit everyone, not just your, your family.
So it's, it's a really cool thing what you're doing.
And, and like Soledad said,
thank you so much for taking the time to do that,
'cause you're be, you could be doing anything
with your lives.
So this is really important.
So thank you.
(people applauding)
- Thank you.
- Thank you for having us.
- Thank you so much.
- Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, everybody Disrupt & Dismantle
airs Wednesdays on BET.