BONUSES SINCE THE TAX BILL WAS
SIGNED AND OVER THREE AND A HALF
MILLION PEOPLE GETTING THE
BONUSES.
>>> NOW THIS: THE PRESIDENT
WANTS MONEY FOR THE WALL, AND HE
WANTS TO END THE VISA LOTTERY
SYSTEM AND CHAIN MIGRATION.
IN RETURN, SOME OF THE DREAMERS
CAN STAY.
THAT’S THE PRESIDENT’S DEAL.
JOINING US NOW IS BROOKINGS
INSTITUTION SENIOR FELLOW
WILLIAM GALLSTON.
WILLIAM, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
YOU MAKE THE CASE IN AN ARTICLE
I JUST READ FOR A MERIT-BASED
IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
GOT IT.
WHAT DOES -- DOES THAT MEAN YOU
WANT TO END CHAIN MIGRATION AS
WELL?
>> NO, IT MEANS I WANT TO
REBALANCE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM
FOR THE 21ST CENTURY.
WE HAVEN’T FUNDAMENTALLY ALTERED
OUR FRAMEWORK OF IMMIGRATION
POLICY SINCE THE REFORM BILL OF
1965.
THERE HAVE BEEN MOMENTOUS
ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL CHANGES IN
THE COUNTRY, AND I THINK OUR
POLICIES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
OUGHT TO REFLECT THOSE CHANGES
AND BUILD ON THEM.
I THINK WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
NOW -- I’M SORRY.
STUART: NO, NO, I DIDN’T MEAN TO
INTERRUPT BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND
EXACTLY WHAT YOU’RE SAYING, AND
IN THE LARGE PART I DO AGREE
WITH YOU, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN?
DO YOU ACCEPT THAT WE NEED
BORDER SECURITY TO STOP ANOTHER
WAVE OF IMMIGRANTS COMING IN
UNAUTHORIZED?
DO WE NEED TO END THE LOTTERY
SYSTEM BECAUSE IT’S JUST NOT
PART OF A MERIT-BASED SYSTEM?
DO WE WANT TO DO THAT SIDE OF
THE LEDGER AS WELL?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE
CERTAINLY NEED ENHANCEDDED
BORDER SECURITY, AND I THINK
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE IN
AGREEMENT ON THAT POINT AND HAVE
BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
DEMOCRATS UNANIMOUSLY VOTED FOR
AN IMMIGRATION REFORM PACKAGE IN
2013 THAT INCLUDED MORE MONEY
FOR BORDER SECURITY THAN THE
PRESIDENT IS REQUESTING.
SO IT’S JUST A QUESTION OF
SPENDING THAT MONEY EFFECTIVELY
AND EFFICIENTLY.
WITH REGARD TO THE LOTTERY
PROGRAM, FIRST OF ALL, IT’S NOT
A VERY BIG PROGRAM, AND IT’S
GENERATED A LOT MORE HEAT THAN
ITS SIZE MERITS.
BUT SECONDLY, THERE IS NO
CONTRADICTION BETWEEN A LOTTERY
PROGRAM AND A MERIT-BASED
PROGRAM BECAUSE YOU CAN
SUPERIMPOSE MERIT CRITERIA ON
TOP OF THE LOTTERY SYSTEM.
STUART: OKAY, FAIR POINT.
>> BECAUSE WE CAN SQUARE THIS
CIRCLE.
NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE HEART OF
THE MATTER AND THAT IS THE ROLE
OF FAMILY REUNIFICATION WHICH IS
WHAT DEMOCRATS CALL IT OR CHAIN
MIGRATION WHICH IS WHAT
REPUBLICANS CALL IT, THE FACT OF
THE MATTER IS NOBODY ELSE IN THE
WORLD DOES IMMIGRATION THE WAY
THAT WE DO.
NOBODY GIVES THE WEIGHT TO
FAMILY CONSIDERATIONS, NOBODY
ELSE DOES --
STUART: YEP.
>> THE UNITED STATES IS A REAL
OUTLIER HERE.
I UNDERSTAND THE REASONS THAT
HAVE LED US TO THIS POLICY, BUT
IT HAS OUTLIVED ITS USEFULNESS,
IN MY OPINION, AND THERE’S A
GOOD ARGUMENT FOR REBALANCING
AWAY FROM EXTENDED FAMILY
REUNIFICATION AND TOWARD
ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS.
STUART: LAST ONE, WHAT ABOUT
ANCHOR BABIES?
ANYONE BORN IN AMERICA IS AN
AMERICAN?
THAT’S THE WAY IT IS HERE.
NOT NECESSARILY TRUE ELSEWHERE
IN THE WORLD.
WOULD YOU END THAT, THE ANCHOR
BABY CONCEPT?
>> I WOULD NOT.
STUART: OKAY.
>> THE PRINCIPLE THAT IF YOU’RE
BORN IN AMERICA, YOU’RE AN
AMERICAN CITIZEN DOES MUCH MORE
GOOD THAN HARM, AND I THINK IT
WOULD BE MISCHIEVOUS, ALL THINGS
CONSIDERED, TO ALTER THAT
PRINCIPLE.
STUART: I HAVE TO ASK YOU ONE
LAST QUESTION HERE.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS
THAT A NUMBER OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS
ARE QUESTIONING NANCY PELOSI’S
LEADERSHIP.
THERE’S A HEADLINE IN THE TIMES,
FRONT PAGE, PELOSI FIGHTING TO
KEEP HOLD ON SPLIT PARTY.
TOP DEMOCRAT MAY BE LOSING HER
IRON GRIP.
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE A
DEMOCRAT OPERATIVE IN THE DAY.
DO YOU THINK THAT MS. PELOSI IS
LOSING HER GRIP?
[LAUGHTER]
>> I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH.
SHE IS THE BEST FUNDRAISER IN
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BY FAR AND
ESPECIALLY IN A MIDTERM ELECTION
YEAR, THAT REALLY COUNTS A LOT.
THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT THE
FACT THAT SHE IS IN THE MIDDLE
OF A CAUCUS, A PIECE OF WHICH IS
TO HER LEFT AND ANOTHER PIECE OF
WHICH IS TO HER RIGHT.
AND SHE HAS THE DIFFICULT TASK
OF HOLDING IT TOGETHER, BUT
SHE’S HARDLY THE ONLY POLITICAL
LEADER TO BE FACED WITH THAT
KIND OF BALANCING ACT.
STUART: I DON’T THINK SHE SHOULD
HAVE LABELED $1,000 BONUSES AS
CRUMBS, AND I DON’T THINK SHE
SHOULD HAVE SAID THE TAX DEAL
WAS ARMAGEDDON.
HOW ABOUT YOU?
>> I AGREE WITH YOU, AND I
SUSPECT IF YOU PUT THOSE
QUESTIONS TO HER PRIVATELY, SHE
MIGHT WELL AGREE THAT THOSE WERE
NOT HER FINEST -- DID NOT
REPRESENT HER FINEST HOUR.
STUART: SIR, I THINK THIS MARKS
A LANDMARK FOR THE PROGRAM.
I AM IN A GOOD DEAL OF AGREEMENT
WITH SOMEONE FROM THE BROOKINGS
INSTITUTE, AND I THINK THAT’S
ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE.
[LAUGHTER]
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US,
SIR.
>> YOU SHOULD TALK TO US MORE
FREQUENTLY.
[LAUGHTER]
STUART: IF YOU’RE NOT CAREFUL.