FOR PBS "NEWSHOUR," OUR FRIEND,
YAMICHE ALCINDOR IS BACK
AND ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE
REPORTER FOR AXIOS, AMY HARDER
IS HERE.
AMY, LET ME START WITH YOU
CAN YOU TAKE ME THROUGH THE VIEW
ON THE GROUND?
GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM HAS BEEN
OUTSPOKEN ABOUT THE SORT OF
FRUITLESSNESS OF DEBATING
CLIMATE CHANGE AT THIS POINT,
BUT IT DOES CONTINUE TO DAMAGE
HIS STATE.
SO JUST TAKE ME INSIDE THE
GROUND TRUTH
>> RIGHT
WELL, THERE’S A LOT OF FACTORS
THAT INFLUENCE WHAT MAKES
WILDFIRES WORSE.
AND I’M TUNING IN HERE FROM
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON, WHERE WE’VE
BEEN CLOAKED IN WILDFIRE SMOKE
FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.
AND SOY REALLY HAVE A
FIRST-PERSON PERSPECTIVE ON
THIS
AND THERE’S SEVERAL REASONS WHY
WILDFIRES ARE GETTING WORSE.
THE PRESIDENT IS ACTUALLY
CORRECT THAT FOREST MANAGEMENT
IS ONE OF THE FACTORS, BUT SO IS
CLIMATE CHANGE
WHICH IS DRYING OUT THE FOREST,
WHICH IS MAKING HOTTER
TEMPERATURES, WHICH IS CREATING
MORE DROUGHT, ALL OF WHICH FEED
INTO THIS PENT-UP FOR THAT WHEN
FIRES ARE STARTED, WHETHER IT’S
BY A BOLT OF LIGHTNING OR
HUMANS, THAT FIRE IS LIKE A
TINDERBOX.
AND IT GETS GOING AND IT RAVAGES
MORE PLACES THAN IT WOULD HAVE
OTHERWISE.
SO THE PRESIDENT IS FOCUSING ON
JUST ONE FACTOR, WHEN IT’S
ACTUALLY A LOT OF FACTORS,
INCLUDING, MOST OF ALL, CLIMATE
CHANGE.
CHANGE
>> JEREMY BASH, I JUST WANT TO
ASK YOU TO BROADEN THE LENS FOR
ME
YOU GO BACK TO THE HURRICANES
HEADING TOWARDS THIS COUNTRY AND
DONALD TRUMP TOOK A SHARPIE
SKPARLTAND
ALTERED THE PATH OF A HURRICANE.
I THINK IT WAS WEEKS LATER,
MAYBE MONTHS, THAT WE LEARNED
THAT THE SCIENTISTS INSIDE NOAA
HAD WRITTEN TO THEIR SUPERIORS
ABOUT JUST DESPERATELY TRYING TO
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF SCIENCE
THERE’S EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE IN
THE FIGHT AGAINST COVID.
WE’VE GOT A WHISTLE-BLOWER WHO
WAS -- WHO LEFT OR WAS FORCED
OUT BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO GO ON
THE HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE SCAM WITH
DONALD TRUMP AND RUDY GIULIANI
AND HIS FRIENDS AT FOX NEWS.
THERE’S EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF
DONALD TRUMP PUSHING MEDICAL
QUACKERY
I MEAN, IT IS A VERY, VERY
DIFFICULT MOMENT TO BE ON THE
SIDE OF SCIENCE.
>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP IS WAGING
A WAR, NICOLE, AGAINST SCIENCE,
AGAINST DATA, AND AGAINST
EXPERTS.
AND HIS M.O., AS BOB WOODWARD
POINTED OUT, IS TO DOWNPLAY ANY
THREATS.
YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT NOW
WITH RESPECT TO THE WILDFIRES,
CONSUMING AN AREA, I THINK THE
SIZE OF CONNECTICUT, IN THE
WESTERN PART OF THE UNITED
STATES
YOU SAW TRUMP DOWNPLAYING THREAT
FROM COVID-19.
AND OF COURSE, HE TOOK WAY TOO
LONG TO SPEAK TO IT OR
ACKNOWLEDGE IT
AND EVEN TO THIS DAY, HE
CONTINUES TO HAVE MASS SBLEES OF
PEOPLE THAT CAN BECOME SUPER
SPREADERS EVENTS
AND WITH RESPECT TO THE ELECTION, HE CONSISTENTLY
ELECTION, HE CONSISTENTLY
DOWNPLAYS THE SS FOREIGN ACTORS
SO HIS FIRST JOB IN THE
CONSTITUTION IS TO PROTECT
AMERICANS FROM CERTAIN THREATS
>> YAMICHE, PEOPLE IN YOUR LINE
OF WORK KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT
IS VERY LATE TO THIS ROLLING
CRISES
CALIFORNIA, OREGON, AND
WASHINGTON HAVE BEEN ON FIRE FOR
MANY, MANY DAYS.
THIS IS THE FIRST EVENT HE’S HAD
ON IT.
WHAT DOES YOUR REPORTING SUGGEST
ABOUT HIS PERSONAL DEGREE OF
CONCERN?
>> WELL, IT’S HARD TO SAY WHAT,
OF COURSE, IS IN PRESIDENT
TRUMP’S HEART.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS HE HAS BEEN
SOMEONE WHO HAS WANTED TO AT
LEAST SHOW THAT HE IS CONCERNED
ABOUT THESE FIRES.
BUT HE ALSO IS SOMEONE WHOSE
POLITICAL CAREER HAS REALLY BEEN
FOUNDED ON THE IDEA THAT HE
KNOWS EVEN WHEN HEALTH OFFICIALS
AND SCIENTISTS SAY OTHERWISE
IT GOES TO SHOW YOU, WHEN HE WAS
RUNNING, HE TALKED ABOUT CLIMATE
CHANGE BEING A HOAX BY THE
CHINESE, AND NOW YOU SEE HIM AS
PRESIDENT ROLLING BACK
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION AFTER
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION
HE ESSENTIALLY SAYS THAT HE’S ON
THE SIDE OF BUSINESS, NOT
SCIENCE AND YOU HEAR HIM TODAY
SAYING ESSENTIALLY THE SAME
THING.
THERE ARE A LOT OF CRITICS FOR
THE PRESIDENT WHO WOULD SAY,
THIS IS REALLY PAR FOR THE
COURSE
BUT AS WE LOOK AT THE POLITICAL
RAMIFICATIONS, THE PRESIDENT
HASN’T HAD TO PAY LARGE
CONSEQUENCES IN HIS FIGHT
AGAINST SCIENCE.
IT GOES TO SHOW THAT, YES, HE’S
IN OREGON, CALIFORNIA, OUT WEST,
TALKING ABOUT THESE FIRES, BUT
HAS NOT BEEN SOMEONE WHO’S MADE
HIS PRESIDENCY BEING ABOUT BEING
EMPATHETIC FOR PEOPLE.
INSTEAD, HE’S BEEN SOMEONE WHO’S
BEEN HARD CHARGING AND SAYING, I
HAVE THE ANSWER, EVERYONE ELSE
IS ESSENTIALLY WRONG >> AMY, LET ME SHOW YOU GOVERNOR
>> AMY, LET ME SHOW YOU GOVERNOR
GAVIN NEWSOM ON FRIDAY
>> I’M A LITTLE BIT EXHAUSTED
THAT WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO
DEBATE THIS ISSUE.
THIS IS A CLIMATE DAMN
EMERGENCY.
THIS IS REAL
AND IT’S HAPPENING
THIS IS THE PERFECT STORM.
>> AMY, HE APPEARED IN A FOREST
AT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL
CONVENTION
HIS STATE HAS BEEN HARD HIT BY
THE TWO CRISES FACING THAT
REGION, CORONAVIRUS AND THE
FOREST FIRES
WHAT IS SORT OF THE VIEW ON THE
GROUND
DO PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THE FIRST
ISSUE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT,
LAND MANAGEMENT IS -- HAS BEEN
NOT UP TO PAR?
DO PEOPLE FEEL LIKE CLIMATE
CHANGE HAS BEEN IGNORED.
OR DO PEOPLE FEEL THE WAY THE
WHOLE COUNTRY DEALS WITH THESE
CRISES, IT DEPENDS ON THEIR
POLITICAL CAMP
>> I THINK IT CERTAINLY DEPENDS
A LOT ON YOUR POLITICAL
PERSPECTIVE.
UNFORTUNATELY, CLIMATE CHANGE IS
THE MOST POLARIZING ISSUE,
ACCORDING TO DATA FROM PEW AND
GLOP
GALLUP, SO YOU REALLY LOOK AT
THIS ISSUE THROUGH THE LENS OF
YOUR POLITICAL PARTY
I THINK RIGHT NOW THESE
WILDFIRES ARE HITTING BLUE
STATES, AND THAT IS, OF COURSE,
NOT GOING UNNOTICEDBY THE WAY
THE PRESIDENT IS HANDLING HIS
INTERACTIONS WITH THESE STATES
I THINK THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE
HERE IN WASHINGTON STATE, FOR
EXAMPLE, THAT DO ACKNOWLEDGE
CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT ALSO WANT
THERE TO BE BETTER FOREST
MANAGEMENT
AND THE PROBLEM WITH A PROBLEM
LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT IT
TAKES DECADES TO OCCUR AND ALSO
REVERSE.
EVEN IF WE STOPPED EMITTING
GREENHOUSE GASES TOMORROW, WE
WOULD STILL HAVE BAD WILDFIRES
FOR DECADES TO COME.
WHICH IS WHY SMART PEOPLE,
INCLUDING PEOPLE LIKE GOVERNOR
INSLEE AND OTHER PEOPLE ON THE
GROUND, GOVERNOR NEWSOM OF
CALIFORNIA, THEY’RE -- THEY
SHOULD TAKE A TWO-PRONGED
APPROACH, RIGHT?
ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT ALSO
DEAL WITH THINGS THAT THEY CAN
DO NOW, WHICH IS BETTER
MANAGEMENT OF THE FOREST, MORE
MEASURED BURNING, AND COLDER
SEASONS, WHERE THE TINDERBOX
ISN’T AS PRESENT
SO IT’S REALLY NOT EITHER/OR
BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO THE
POLITICAL ARENA, UNFORTUNATELY,
IT BOILS DOWN TO WHETHER OR NOT
YOU BELIEVE IN CLIMATE CHANGE.
AND BELIEF ISN’T EVEN THE WORD
WE SHOULD BE USING
THE WORD IS ACKNOWLEDGE.
BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS A