>>> BEFORE THE BREAK I SPOKE
ABOUT THE PHRASE "DEFUND THE
POLICE."
JOINING ME FOR MORE ON THAT,
THIS IS THE BEAUTIFUL CITY OF
PORTLAND YOU’RE LOOKING AT,
PORTLAND OREGON CITY
COMMISSIONER JOANNE HARDSTI, THE
FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO SIT ON
PLOIG’S
PORTLAND’S CITY COUNCIL AND
JOINING ME THE HOST OF THE
PODCAST UNDISTRACTED AND AN
EXPERT ON POLICING AS WELL.
THANK YOU TO BOTH OF YOU.
GOOD MORNING TO BOTH OF YOU.
JOANNE, LET ME START WITH YOU.
PART OF WHAT THIS THING HAS COME
DOWN TO IS, PEOPLE WHO EMBRACE
THE PHRASE "DEFUND THE POLICE"
ARE ACCUSED OF BEING PEOPLE WHO
WANT TO ELIMINATE THE POLICE,
ABOLITIONISTS OF POLICE.
YOU BELIEVE THAT’S INACCURATE?
>> IT IS ABSOLUTELY INACCURATE.
THIS IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
REDIRECTING PUBLIC RESOURCES TO
TOTALLY ELIMINATING POLICE.
I’M OLD ENOUGH TO NOT BELIEVE
THAT ABOLITION WILL HAPPEN IN MY
LIFETIME, BUT WHAT I KNOW IS
THAT BASED ON OUTCOMES,
POLICING, THE WAY WE DO IT
TODAY, DOES NOT WORK.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE CRIME, IT DOES
NOT PREVENT CRIME, AND WHAT IT
DOES IS ACTUALLY EXACERBATE A
LOT OF SOCIAL ILLS IN OUR
COMMUNITY.
>> BRITTNEY, LET’S TALK ABOUT
THIS.
WHAT DOES SUCCESS LOOK LIKE?
YOU STUDIED THIS ISSUE WELL.
WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN?
WE’VE BEEN PUSHING MORE AND MORE
PUBLIC MONEY INTO POLICING.
LARGELY BECAUSE AS SECURITY
ISSUES BECOME BIGGER THINGS, WE
THINK THAT THE WAY TO SOLVE THEM
IS POLICING WHEN IN MANY CASES
IT WAS MENTAL HEALTH OR
SUBSTANCE ABUSE COUNSELING OR
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUES.
HOW DO WE SOLVE THIS, BRITTNEY
IN.
>> ACTIVISTS USE PHRASES LIKE
DIVEST OR DEFUND THE POLICE,
WE’RE ULTIMATELY TALKING ABOUT
REENVISIONING PUBLIC SAFETY.
WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT AS I’VE
SAID SO OFTEN, GOT THAM WITHOUT
BATMAN.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING
STRONG COMMUNITIES FROM THE
GROUND UP.
THIS CONVERSATION IN MY OPINION
ISN’T ABOUT LANGUAGE AT ALL.
IT’S ABOUT ACTION.
VERY SIMPLY THE CONVERSATION HAS
EXPANDED AND NO MATTER HOW YOU
DESCRIBE IT, AT THE VERY LEAST,
AMERICANS HAVE DECLARED WHAT
THEY WANT THE OUTCOMES TO BE AND
ARE LARGELY IN FAVOR TO POLICING
AND INCARSATION.
ACCORDING TO THE PRISON POLICY
INITIATIVE THERE IS BROAD
SUPPORT.
NEARLY 80% WANT 911 TO BE
DIRECTED TO MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICES AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE
SUPPORT.
NEARLY 60% OF PEOPLE BELIEVE
POLICING FUNDS SHOULD BE SHIFTED
IT TO THOSE ORGANIZATIONS THAT
MAKE THINGS HEALTHY FROM THE
GROUND UP.
THIS IS A FASCINATING NUMBER A
LOT OF PEOPLE MISSED.
EVEN IN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF
THE VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES,
WANT TO SEE US INVEST OUR MONEY
IN COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS AND
THINGS LIKE EDUCATION AND MENTAL
HEALTH, INSTEAD OF PRISONS AND
JAILS.
WE’VE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WE SAY,
BUT MY QUESTION, OUR QUESTION
SHOULD ALWAYS BE, WHAT ARE WE
GOING TO DO.
THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT
WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT WE DO IS
INVEST IN THE THINGS THAT HEAL
US AND REMOVE THE MONEY FROM THE
THINGS THAT HURT US.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> THAT’S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN
PORTLAND, RIGHT?
THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT HERE
ABOUT CUTTING ABOUT $15 MILLION
OUT OF THE POLICE BUDGET.
FOR PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT YOU
WANTED TO CANCEL THE ABILITY
OF -- THE POLICE’S ABILITY TO
RESPOND TO 911 CALLS YOUR POINT
IS THE BUDGET WAS $240 MILLION
IT TO START WITH.
YOU’RE ASKING FOR $15 MILLION TO
BE REDIRECTED TO DO SOMETHING
THAT MIGHT BE MORE EFFICIENT
PARTICULARLY FOR SEGMENTS OF
SOCIETY WHO NEED OTHER HELP,
OTHER THAN ARMED POLICE SHOWING
UP TO DEAL WITH THE MATTER.
>> NO QUESTION.
IN FACT, I GOT $15 MILLION CUT
OUT OF THE BUDGET EARLIER THIS
YEAR AND THAT MONEY IS BEING
REDIRECTED INTO PROGRAMS THAT
SERVE OUR HOUSELESS POPULATION
AND A CREATION OF A PROGRAM
CALLED PORTLAND STREET RESPONSE
WHICH WILL SEND A THREE-PERSON
TEAM TO RESPOND TO 911 CALLS
WHERE THERE’S NO WEAPONS
INVOLVED, THERE’S NO VIOLENCE
INVOLVED.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I MANAGED THE
911 CALL CENTER IN PORTLAND AND
THE BIGGEST INCREASE OVER THE
LAST FIVE YEARS AND CALLS TO 911
ARE FOR UNWANTED PEOPLE.
SENDING AN ARMED RESPONSE FOR AN
UNWANTED PEOPLE HAS PROVEN TO BE
DEADLY FOR SOME FOLKS.
SO WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY
UNWANTED?
IT COULD BE SOMEONE WHO LOOKS
DISHEVELED, SOMEONE WHO IS
SUFFERING FROM A MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUE, OR SOMEONE WHO QUITE
FRANKLY JUST DOESN’T HAVE A
SAFE, AFFORDABLE PLACE TO LAY
THEIR HEAD AT NIGHT.
SO WHEN WE SEND IS PEOPLE WITH
WEAPONS AND PEOPLE WITH
AGGRESSIVE INTERVENTIONS, WHAT
WE END UP WITH IS MORE COMMUNITY
VIOLENCE.
THE COMMUNITY WANTS RESPONSES
LIKE PORTLAND STREET RESPONSE
WHICH WILL SEND A QUALIFIED
MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, AN
EMT, AND A PEER SUPPORTER, A
THREE-PERSON TEAM, TO GO OUT AND
HELP PEOPLE BE AS SAFE AS THEY
CAN BE WHERE THEY ARE.
OUR BIG PROBLEM IS WE DON’T HAVE
MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT WHEN
PEOPLE FEED IT, WE DON’T HAVE
HOUSING PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO
LIVE IN.
WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH LIVING WAGE
JOBS THAT PEOPLE CAN TAKE CARE
OF THEIR FAMILIES.
SO THE OUTCOME OF THAT IS WE
HAVE AN EXPLOSION OF HOUSELESS
PEOPLE.
WELL, BRINGING THE POLICE IN TO
THAT MIX MAKES NO SENSE, RIGHT.
SO WHAT DO WE DO?
WE ARREST THEM AND NOW THEY HAVE
A CRIMINAL CONVICTION AND THEY
REALLY CAN’T GET HOUSING, RIGHT,
THEY REALLY CAN’T GET EMPLOYMENT
TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY AND THAT
HAS BEEN -- THAT’S THE PROBLEM.
THAT’S BEEN THE CONVERSATION.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
FEARFUL WITH THE TERM "DEFUND"
BECAUSE WHAT THEY WANT TO KNOW
IS WHAT IS GOING TO REPLACE IT.
THE REALITY IS, IS THAT WE CAN’T
THINK OF IT AS A ONE-FOR-ONE
EXCHANGE.
WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE
HAVE SQUANDERED HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO A
PUBLIC SAFETY SYSTEM THAT DOES
NOT KEEP US SAFE.
THAT’S WHY ONE OF MY INITIATIVES
IS RETHINK A COMMUNITY SAFETY.
COMMUNITY SAFETY LOOKS DIFFERENT
BASED ON THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN,
YOUR SOCIAL ECONOMIC STATUS AND
THAT’S THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE
TO ISHAVE, RIGHT.
THEN WE SAY WHAT ROLE DOES
POLICE PLAY IN THAT.
WE WILL STILL HAVE CRIMES THAT