It's The Real News Network.
I'm Sharmini Peries, coming to you from Baltimore.
In Venezuela, President Nicolás Maduro won re-election, with sixty-eight percent of the
vote, on Sunday.
Participation, though, was at its lowest we have seen in Venezuela in decades, at just
forty-six percent, compared with, say, the turnout in 2013 following Chávez's death,
at eighty percent.
But it is not unlike some other recent elections we have seen, say, in Europe.
For example, the last set of presidential elections in France, when Emmanuel Macron
won, he was elected with just forty-eight percent.
In Venezuela, however, the low turnout is attributed to the boycott by the opposition
parties.
Maduro's closest rival, Henri Falcón, who did participate, got twenty-one percent of
the vote.
Falcón, who had originally promised to recognize the results as a condition of his participation,
reversed himself late Sunday night, saying that he would not to recognize the result
because the conditions for his participation had been violated, and he is demanding a new
election to be held in October.
Let's listen.
It's obligatory for us to denounce that the agreement signed was not respected and does
not exist.
And from there, we don't recognize this electoral process as valid and as haven taken place.
For us, there were no elections.
New elections in Venezuela need to take place.
President Maduro, meanwhile, while recognizing his victory, promised to engage in intense
dialogue with the opposition to resolve the country's problems, particularly the economic
crises.
And I turn over the page and look to the future.
And I propose Henri Falcón, Reinaldo Quijada, Javier Bertucci, and all the other leaders
of the opposition, let us get together, let us meet, let us talk about Venezuela.
Let's talk about ideas, solutions, and proposals.
I do hear and accept total responsibility of this initiative, this democratic initiative,
this needed initiative.
Joining me now to discuss the elections and analyze the results are Lucas Koerner, a staff
writer for Venezuelanalysis.com.
He joins us from Caracas, and also joining us from Caracas is Roger Harris.
He was an electoral observer during this Sunday's election.
Mr. Harris is with the Task Force on the Americas in San Francisco.
And finally, joining us also is Greg Wilpert, who's joining us from Quito, Ecuador.
He's a longtime Venezuela analyst and the author of Changing Venezuela By Taking Power.
For full disclosure, Greg's wife is Venezuela's ambassador to Ecuador.
All right, Lucas, let's start with you.
Now, what are the major complaints from various players in Venezuela as to why these elections
should not be recognized?
Well, I think, beginning with Henri Falcón, the opposition front runner- he, together
with Javier Bertucci, who was the evangelical candidate, they're saying that the election
is illegitimate.
And they point to, basically the main gripe that they cite, is the so-called "red points"
or "red tags," which are basically Socialist Party points that are basically set up within,
you know, supposedly one hundred, two hundred meters by law, two hundred meters of the voting
centers, and basically monitor- they're used for exit polling, that after voting, Chavistas,
or government supporters, voluntarily go to these sites, and they basically register they
had voted and it helps the Socialist Party tabulate projections for the outcome of the
vote.
And they're saying that these "red points" are used to coerce voters, or to distribute
patronage, or any other type of irregularities.
They have not really cited any other evidence for why they think- or any other claims for
why they think the elections are fraudulent.
The main opposition parties are- that boycotted the election are also thankful that this election
was fraudulent, but they are not even- they've already said that it was a fraud months ago.
And they have not cited any evidence.
Both Falcón and Betrucci are calling for the elections to be redone in October, and
Bertucci actually goes as far as to call for Maduro to be prohibited from running.
Maduro has, of course, called on his defeated rivals to recognize the results of the election
and to sit down to dialogue, and for national reconciliation, beginning today.
All right.
Roger, let me go to you.
You toured various centers in the state of Vargas, along Venezuela's coast.
What did you see at the polling stations and what did people tell you?
And focus, also, in on these "red tents" that were up.
From my experience, being at Venezuelan election polling stations, these "red tents" exist
two hundred meters away and they are there in order to, I guess, capture the different
voters that have come to the polling station, to make sure that their registration with
the certain parties are still updated, and they usually have celebrations or treats given
out.
But at the same time, now the opposition is claiming that these "red centers" or "red
tents" were giving out certain prizes for having voted.
And so, Roger could you comment on that as well?
Yes.
We were part of a large team, over three hundred internationals, looking at polling places
in Caracas, throughout the country, and also on the coastal state of Vargas, where I was,
as well as in Caracas itself.
We didn't see any irregularities, but that was just anecdotal.
I kind of would say that the big news is there is no news.
People were very worried about violence and obstruction of voting, and stuff like that.
We didn't see that.
It was a very orderly process.
I spoke to a young militant in the state of Vargas, his name was Jose, and the way he
describes the voting process was, it was their celebration of democracy.
The Venezuelans that we came in contact with were extremely proud of their democracy, very
proud to have a building to have elections, and very proud, specifically, about the technical
parts of their voting system.
It was so fraud-proof that from taking fingerprints, to using a photo I.D., to having a paper ballot
beneath the electronic ballot.
They were extremely proud of the foolproof-ness of their electoral process.
Lucas, you spent most of the day in Caracas, going to voting centers in different parts
of the city.
What do you make of the- Falcón's claim here, that the election agreement that he signed
with Maduro and the electoral council were violated?
What was supposedly violated, and is there any evidence?
Like I said before, Falcón's main complaint here is the presence of these "red points,"
which are supposed to be two hundred meters away from the entrance to the voting center-
that these were used to coerce or intimidate voters, or to otherwise distribute gifts,
or basically control the voting of voters.
We talked- spoke to witnesses for both Falcón, Progressive Advance Party, and Javier Bertucci's
Hope for Change Party.
And almost every voting center which we visited- and it's important to recognize that in Venezuela's
electoral process, opposition parties, as well as pro-government parties, all parties
have witnesses present, ideally, in all voting centers in the country, in order to basically
monitor any irregularities, as well as they will basically have access to the results
of the printed out paper ballot- the tabulation of the results at the end of the day, which
they can cross-check with the electronic results, in order to make sure that no irregularities
take place.
And they told us that they had found they had no issues with the that it was taking
place, that it is all going smoothly, without irregularities.
And these opposition witnesses- they did complain that these "red points" were too close to
the entrance to the voting center.
Nonetheless, they stressed that in no way was the right of people's-people's right to
suffrage being interfered with in any way whatsoever, that people voted their vote.
And given that Venezuela has a secret ballot, regardless- even Chavistas go and register
with this, you know, "red point."
They could they could have voted for the opposition, the government.
It's just an exit polling mechanism.
So, I think that that's the bottom line, that there- I think it's lastly important to recognize,
these "red points" had been used by as standard practice by the government for the past- excuse
me, by the Socialist Party and its antecedents, for the past twenty years.
It's part of its mobilization strategy.
And that it had even been used in elections, like the December 6, 2015 parliamentary election,
in which the opposition won by a landslide, scoring nearly two thirds of the seats at
that time.
So, it doesn't appear to be a lot of real evidence for the fraud claims.
And in fact, the opposition, the other parties, the opposition that boycotted the election,
under the MUD, they similarly cried fraud in 2015- excuse me, in last year's October
15th elections for governor, they cried fraud.
They did not cite any evidence.
And at that time, Henri Falcón's economic adviser, Francisco Rodriguez- he actually
conducted a study that dismissed those fraud claims, that actually really confirmed the
standing results.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of water in these claims.
All right, Greg let me go to you.
The opposition just released a statement, claiming that the turnout was just eighteen
percent.
Now, Marco Rubio also tweeted that Maduro claims to have won with more votes than people
actually went to vote.
What is your response to this?
Yes, It's quite ridiculous.
I mean, the first thing about the 18 percent- it was actually something that was released
earlier that had to be retracted, because there's just no evidence, really, whatsoever.
The thing is, over fifty percent of the ballot boxes are actually counted by hand.
And it would really represent a tremendous stuffing of ballot boxes that supersedes the
imagination.
I mean, it would be completely unprecedented in the history of elections to basically fake
what they're claiming is millions and millions of votes.
It's just completely out of the question.
And like Lucas was saying, they haven't presented any evidence whatsoever that the result is
that much lower.
As a matter of fact, actually, I think opposition forces recognize that this is a completely
false claim, and that's why they've been relatively muted in stating it.
However, the problem is that many media outlets have been picking it up, even though the opposition
itself isn't really making it or substantiating it.
I just saw a report from Bloomberg, for example, that has been reporting and repeating that
claim.
And even the New York Times, they cited a thirty percent turnout figure- again, totally
unsubstantiated.
That hasn't even been repeated that often by forces- I mean, political forces within
Venezuela.
But now it's becoming amplified, because there's nothing else that the media can hold on to
in order to substantiate the claims that everybody is trying to make, which is that these elections
were somehow fraudulent.
All right, Greg.
What happens now?
As we saw in the clips at the beginning, Maduro is offering a dialogue, while the opposition,
including Falcón here, is calling for new elections.
Meanwhile, there are so many people trying to get in on this conversation, including
the United States.
And also, I should mention that in terms of that dialogue, Zapatero, former Prime Minister
of Spain, who was in the process of mediating the dialogue between the opposition and the
Maduro government, has reoffered to continue or start up those negotiations again.
Your thoughts on that?
Yes, the dialogue is going to be extremely difficult because the positions are so far
apart.
I mean, the big question is whether or not the opposition would agree to a dialogue.
And if they're making a call basically for a new election, it is very- I mean, if that's
the only thing that they want to talk about, it's very unlikely that Maduro will agree
to that.
I mean, what he has said is that he wants a dialogue about the policies of his government,
not about whether or not there's going to be new elections.
So, they're completely diametrically opposed positions here between the opposition and
the government.
And so, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible to actually have any kind of
meaningful discussion, even though, like you said, Zapatero has offered to mediate again.
I just don't see it happening.
The big problem, the big danger, of course, is what is the United States going to do at
this point?
And we already saw the Lima Group declaring that they are not recognizing- this is fourteen
countries governed- in Latin America- that are governed by conservative governments.
And they're basically suggesting, also, that they will impose sanctions of some sort.
But the real serious sanctions would be if the United States imposes sanctions on oil
exports from Venezuela.
All right.
Now Greg, you mentioned the Lima Group has, of course, objected to these elections and
are refusing to recognize them.
That includes Brazil, Argentina, Canada- some of the big players in Latin America on that
list.
But at the same time, we have China and Russia, who will likely side with the Venezuelan government
on this issue.
China was already asked earlier today as to whether they recognize it, and they said that
the sovereignty of Venezuela is their diplomatic position, and that they will honor what the
Venezuelan people has chosen, which is the Maduro government.
Now, I imagine Russia will also take that position, although we haven't heard from the
Kremlin yet on this.
Any thoughts on this, Greg, before I go to Roger for the last word?
Yes, I mean, that's certainly going to be Venezuela's, so to speak, life raft, is the
connection to China and Russia, because if they cannot sell oil to the United States,
then those will be the main alternatives.
And that's why it's so important for Venezuela to maintain its alliance with both Russia
and China.
And that's really going to be the only solution for them in that sense, in the long term,
because the other left governments in Latin America, principally Bolivia, Nicaragua, Cuba,
are not going to be able on their own- considering that they're some of the poorest countries
in Latin America, going to be able to help Venezuela very much.
So, it all comes down to really Russia and China.
And I think that's- and Venezuela will welcome, of course, allying itself- or has welcomed
allying itself with these countries.
And we're seeing, really, a kind of a reshaping of blocs within Latin America, in that sense.
All right, Roger.
Now, you had gone to Venezuela to observe the elections.
I imagine there was many observer delegations, including from the European Union.
The European Union has not issued a declaration, at this point, about the elections yet, but
I'm wondering what your thoughts are, and what you- whether you ran into any of the
European delegation members- what they might be saying, and also what message you'll be
carrying forward as you head home?
Yes, I met a number of Europeans that were observers.
Some of them were in the European Parliament.
I don't know if they were there in any official capacity, but let me answer your question
in a much broader sense, because I've been coming to Venezuela even before Chávez was
here, and there's been a sea change in this country.
Before Chávez, this country looked to the United States for their identity.
Baseball was the national pastime, not fútbol, or what we call soccer.
Now, Venezuelans have a strong national identity and a dignity about themselves.
Also, the society has become much, much more inclusive, especially for women and youth.
I believe that there are some over three hundred mayoralties in the country, and about a hundred
of them, the mayors are below thirty years in age.
And finally, and I think this is the most important thing, not only for Venezuela but
for the region, and for the entire society, for humanity, is that Venezuela led the "pink
tide," the so-called left leaning countries.
That tide has been ebbing, but today we saw a staying of that ebbing.
And that tide put socialism on the agenda for the twenty-first century.
We have to see what happens in the future.
All right, Roger.
I thank you so much for joining us today.
And Lucas, your connection wasn't that great, but I hope we got the gist of what you had
to say.
Thank you for joining us today.
Thanks for having me.
And Greg Wilpert, in Ecuador, in Quito, I thank you so much for joining us, as well.
My pleasure.
And thank you for joining us here on The Real News Network.