>> Jeyan: THE LONG-AWAITED APOLOGY BY THE POPE TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN
LAND HAPPENED THIS SUMMER.
CHARNEL ANDERSON COVERS THE NORTHWEST FOR OUR ONTARIO HUBS, AND SHE JOINS US NOW FROM
THUNDER BAY ON REACTION TO THAT.
WELCOME.
>> Charnel: HI, JEYAN.
>> Jeyan: SO YOU SPOKE TO THREE INDIGENOUS LEADERS FOR THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE APOLOGY.
BUT BEFORE I ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, HERE'S A REMINDER OF WHAT THE POPE SAID.
HE SAID:
ALL RIGHT, CHARNEL.
WHAT DID THE DEPUTY GRAND CHIEF OF NISHNAWBE-ASKI NATION HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE APOLOGY?
>> Charnel: SO IN JULY, ANNA BETTY TRAVELLED TO MASKWACIS, ALBERTA WITH SOME RESIDENTIAL
SCHOOL SURVIVORS TO WITNESS THE APOLOGY.
WHEN WE SPOKE AFTER THE APOLOGY, SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE DIDN'T REALLY FEEL IT WAS HER PLACE TO
SAY WHETHER SHE ACCEPTED IT OR NOT.
SHE SAID IT WAS REALLY UP TO THE SURVIVORS, THE PEOPLE WHO ENDURED THE ABUSE IN CANADA'S
RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT CAN MAKE THE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE APOLOGY OR
NOT.
AFTER THE APOLOGY SHE DID SPEAK WITH SOME SURVIVORS WHO SAID IT WAS A REALLY MEANINGFUL
EXPERIENCE FOR THEM.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE AT LEAST 2015 TO HAVE THE POPE
APOLOGIZE FOR THE CHURCH'S ROLE IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM IN CANADA ON INDIGENOUS SOIL WHERE
THESE HORRIFIC EVENTS TOOK PLACE.
SO IT WAS MEANINGFUL FOR SOME PEOPLE.
BUT ANNA BETTY SAID THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ANGRY ABOUT THE VISIT,
THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TRIGGERED FROM IT, THE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE HAD FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE
RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SURVIVORS WHO ARE NO LONGER WITH US AND DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WITNESS
THIS APOLOGY.
THERE WERE A LOT OF DIFFERENT REACTIONS JUST KIND OF BASED ON WHERE PEOPLE ARE AT IN THEIR
HEALING JOURNEYS.
>> Jeyan: SOL MAMAKWA, NDP MPP FOR KIIWETINOONG, DESCRIBED THE EMOTIONAL HEAVINESS OF THE
MOMENT BUT WAS CRITICAL OF THE WORDS THEMSELVES.
HOW SO?
>> YEAH, SO SOL WAS ALSO IN MASKWACIS FOR THE APOLOGY, AND HE SAID THAT, AS THE POPE WAS
APOLOGIZING, HE SAW PEOPLE EMBRACING ONE ANOTHER, CRYING, YOU KNOW, LIVING THROUGH THIS
HEAVY EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE, AND I SPOKE TO SOL THE DAY AFTER THE APOLOGY AND AFTER HE HAD SOME
TIME TO DIGEST IT AND HE SAID THAT HE FELT THAT IT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE POPE APOLOGIZED FOR PHYSICAL, VERBAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL AND SPIRITUAL
ABUSE, BUT HE DIDN'T MENTION SEXUAL ABUSE, SOMETHING THAT IS DOCUMENTED IN THE TRC.
SO PEOPLE FELT THAT THAT WAS A GLARING OMISSION IN THIS APOLOGY.
ANOTHER THING THAT SOL HAD MENTIONED THAT WASN'T IN THE APOLOGY WAS THE DOCTRINE OF
DISCOVERY.
SO THAT'S A PAPAL BULL FROM THE 15TH CENTURY THAT REALLY LAID THE FOUNDATION AND JUSTIFIED
COLONIALISM AND THE SEIZURE OF INDIGENOUS LANDS INCLUDING HERE IN CANADA.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MANY PEOPLE WERE CALLING FOR THE POPE TO REVOKE OR AT LEAST REVISIT,
HAVE SOME DIALOGUE AROUND IT, BUT HE MADE NO MENTION OF THAT IN HIS APOLOGY.
>> Jeyan: THE BEGINNING OF RECONCILIATION.
THAT'S WHAT ONTARIO REGIONAL CHIEF GLEN HARE CALLED IT.
WHAT ELSE DID HE SAY?
>> Charnel: GLEN HARE, HE DIDN'T GO TO ALBERTA.
HE SAID IT WAS A DAY FOR THE SURVIVORS, SO HE JUST STUCK AROUND IN ONTARIO.
BUT HE TOLD ME THAT HE GOT A SENSE FROM MANY PEOPLE THAT THEY WERE SATISFIED WITH THE APOLOGY.
HE FELT THAT THE POPE MEANT THE WORDS THAT HE SAID, THAT IT WAS AUTHENTIC.
PRIOR TO THE VISIT THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE POPE MIGHT CANCEL HIS VISIT TO CANADA
BECAUSE OF HIS DECLINING HEALTH.
BUT HE CAME THROUGH AND HE BROUGHT BACK TWO LITTLE PAIRS OF MOCCASINS THAT WERE GIFTED TO
HIM BY A CHIEF IN SASKATCHEWAN WHO WENT TO ROME EARLIER THIS YEAR.
SHE GAVE HIM THOSE MOCCASINS AS A REMINDER OF THE CHILDREN WHO ATTENDED RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL.
BUT SHE NEVER INTENDED FOR THE POPE TO KEEP THEM.
SHE WANTED HIM TO BRING THEM BACK WHEN HE CAME TO CANADA TO VISIT, AND HE DID.
SO GLEN SAID THAT THOSE WERE IMPORTANT THINGS FOR SURVIVORS TO SEE, THAT THE POPE HAD
FOLLOWED THROUGH ON HIS PROMISES.
>> Jeyan: LET'S TALK NEXT STEPS.
AFTER YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE THREE INDIGENOUS LEADERS, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE ON WHAT NEEDS TO
HAPPEN NEXT?
>> Charnel: SO, I MEAN, RECONCILIATION IS COMPLEX AND THERE ISN'T NECESSARILY A SINGLE
CONSENSUS ABOUT WHAT TO DO NEXT.
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF IDEAS AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN, YOU
KNOW, INCLUDING A DIALOGUE AROUND THE DOCTRINE OF DISCOVERY AND POTENTIALLY RESCINDING THAT,
WHICH OF COURSE WOULD NOT BE EASY BECAUSE OF HOW ENTRENCHED IT IS IN LAW BOTH HERE IN CANADA
AND ELSEWHERE.
BUT YOU KNOW THERE'S ALSO DIFFERENT INITIATIVES TO SUPPORT SURVIVORS, GENERATIONAL
SURVIVORS.
HE MENTIONED HE'D LIKE TO SEE KIND OF A CONCRETE PLAN FOR A HEALING INITIATIVE.
GLEN SPOKE ABOUT EDUCATION, THERE'S STILL FIRST NATION KIDS TRAVELLING HUNDREDS OF
KILOMETERS FROM HOME AT 12 OR 13 TO GO TO SCHOOL.
GLEN SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SUPPORT FROM THE VATICAN FOR FIRST NATION SCHOOLS WHERE
STUDENTS CAN SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGES, SOMETHING THAT KIDS WHO ATTENDED RESIDENTIAL
SCHOOLS WEREN'T ALLOWED TO DO.
AS SIGNIFICANT AS THE APOLOGY WAS, GLEN SAID IT'S REALLY JUST STEP ONE IN RECONCILIATION.
A BIG STEP BUT ONLY THE FIRST STEP.
>> Jeyan: CHARNEL, ALWAYS A PLEASURE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS.
>> Charnel: THANKS, JEYAN