[THEME MUSIC]
Yo, tonight we got the Bronx homie, journalism god,
podcaster, author.
Author, you know what I'm saying?
Host of the Emmy-winning "All In with Chris Hayes."
What's his name? Chris Hayes.
Chris Hayes.
Chris Hayes, come to the table.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
DESUS: Yeah.
What's up dude?
How are you, man?
Hey, the reunion.
Oh, my guy.
He's back.
How are you guys doing?
Shout out to Ms. Bannerman's class.
We back in this bitch, yeah.
Hold on, hold on--
How much Latin do you remember?
- None. - None.
None. Why were they teaching us Latin?
- Let's fix this. - I've got a show tonight, man.
Yeah, that's fine.
Go Chris.
Yeah.
Salud, salud, salud.
Hey, hey, hey.
My guy.
De lo mio
So everyone wants to know, what
was I like in middle school?
You were-- you know what?
You were a polite, kind, and well-behaved young man.
You know what? I remember that.
- I'm serious. - I won an award for--
- Like you were not-- - --most polite.
It was like-- I was like, "Yo, this is the wackest fucking
award they give out."
Most-- did we have a most polite award?
Yeah, it was in Ms. Gersh's class.
- OK, OK. - Yeah.
Is that worse than perfect attendance?
Yeah, yeah.
Perfect attendance was the bottom.
Because that just means I'm an ass kisser.
Like I get a--
teacher gives you like a scantron.
You're like, "Thank you."
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
(HIGH-PITCHED VOICE) Uh, Ms. Gersh,
is there any homework today?
So what is it like--
because now you're on MSNBC.
And people see you and they think you're a nerd.
But your background-- you were in like some--
you were in some rough schools. - I know.
Like you grew up in the Bronx.
You were in Co-Op city.
You know what my favorite--
I don't know if I told--
I've told you before, but my favorite--
when I tell people, when we were in the high school at Truman--
Oh, yes, which you people--
listen, how-- this is how real shit was.
Our junior high school had wild asbestos.
Right.
So they made us-- for a full year,
we were on the top floor of a high school--
we never went out for lunch.
We never went out for research--
for recess.
And we were always hanging out with high school kids.
Like playing craps.
Playing craps.
Shit was wild.
Like literally as a fifth grader, like during gym.
Hey, yo, [WOO] yo, Chris need that [WOO]----
He's got the hot hand in the dice game.
Come on, baby. Come on.
They call me Chris Hayes, baby.
Exactly.
I'm about to smoke y'all.
I, of course, didn't know the rules.
Right.
So it was like money gone after 10 minutes.
But, yeah, it was-- those schools were--
I mean, I love that place though.
- That was-- that was a very-- - But it was like--
--that was an experience.
It was a little-- it was a little--
And this is the wild part, yo, every girl
had a crush on Chris.
You remember this.
I don't remember it that way.
Because I was like, yo, fam, there was this one girl.
You're the guy-- when you're the guy--
This one girl, and she was like, like I was like,
"Yo, who do you like?"
And she was like, "I'm going to tell you my crush tomorrow."
And I was like, "All right.
All right."
That means it's me.
Aight, aight, aight.
And then the next day she was like, "Chris Hayes."
I was like, "Fuck."
Also, I didn't realize you were white until seventh grade.
I was like, "He's light skinned, y'all."
That's part of the Italian.
Yes.
I was like, that's the homie.
He's light skinned.
Oh my god.
So what's the difference between living in the Bronx
and living in Brooklyn?
Well, I mean, Brooklyn these days--
I mean, nowhere is like--
I think it's fair to say, nowhere is
like the Bronx in the 1980s--
Right.
--really anymore.
I mean, for good, for good and for ill.
It's very chill out where I live in Brooklyn.
I live just south of Prospect Park.
It's like-- - Right.
--it's just it's a funny neighborhood
because it's this old like cop and firefighter neighborhood.
So it's not like a neighborhood that's
like undergone transition, you know what I'm saying?
Like they have fourth generation--
like there are teachers in my kid's school
who live in the house that their great grandparents lived in.
(NEW YORK ACCENT) It's like, yeah, I been here.
- Wow. - Yeah, exactly.
(NEW YORK ACCENT) This is [INAUDIBLE]..
I didn't move here from Iowa, pal.
Exactly right.
Yeah, all right, so move the fucking, yeah,
they got garbage in front of my sidewalk.
I'm going to get a fine from the sanitation department.
Exactly right.
Oh man, how's MSNBC nowadays?
We're good, man.
I mean, it's crazy right now, the sort of tempo
of politics coverage is wild.
Woo.
I watch the show.
And like it's breaking news as you're doing your show.
Yeah, always.
Like, you're like, oh shit, Trump--
Oh shit, Trump--
--Trump tried to buy a...
Mars.
What the fuck?
Like, how do you deal with that at this point?
- Via tweet. - Yeah, exactly.
You're like, "What the fuck?"
What's that like, like if say Trump tweets while your show is
going on at the time.
We-- I think that--
I think we have taken an approach--
I think we and the rest of the news, to a certain extent,
has just taken an approach that like not everything
he tweets is news. - Right.
Right?
Because otherwise, you'll just be chasing yourself
and your own tail all the time.
Like you've got to have a little bit of discipline.
He has no discipline. - No no.
And the thing about him, the thing about him
is because he has such a terrible personality, he--
[LAUGHTER]
Yo.
I don't mean that as like a political determination.
That's not political. That's--
Like there are people who have good politics
and terrible personalities.
I don't think anyone disagreed with you.
MERO: Yeah, no.
But like because he, you know, this happens in other parts
of your life, like this happens in people's families,
like it happens in relationships.
Being around a person with toxic tendencies
brings out bad features of other people's personality.
You know what I mean?
Like if you've ever--
if you've had a friend that's dating someone
that's kind of toxic and then they start acting,
you know, like--
Yeah...
The whole country is going though that all the time now.
The whole county has a terrible boyfriend right now.
Exactly.
We have-- we have a horrible boyfriend.
But his name is on the lease.
And we can't--
DESUS: And we've got to wait until the lease is up.
Yeah, or else we're fucked.
All right, so we do our show--
--to tape.
You do yours live.
Yes.
What's that like?
You know, it's funny. One--
One of the things I admire watching
you guys, like you have--
like I like the way that your show, you guys are just,
you're riffing.
And then you have that margin, you know, if you go too far--
Right.
--not that you guys ever go too far, but--
What?
Somebody suck that baby's dick!
OK, wow, wow.
[LAUGHTER]
DESUS: I apol--
I apologize, Chris.
Luckily, I watched enough to know that reference.
Otherwise, I'd be like.
Yeah, I'm out of here.
[LAUGHTER]
No, but you can--
I think Chris Matthews also used
that sound clip the other day.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's our lead tonight, Cuba in the club.
No, we-- we-- we--
[LAUGHTER]
Have you visited Cuba?
Oh.
No, but, you know, the thing is, you know, when you
sometimes we watch Barack Obama in interviews,
particularly now, you can see he's
doing this buffering thing.
So he's-- he's bringing a sentence down to his
head and then he's scanning it. MERO: Yeah.
And he's thinking about what it's going to do.
Is it going to make news?
Do I want to say that thing?
And then he's saying it.
And there will be these long pauses
sometimes in between sentences because he's-- he
doesn't want to go--
That when he hits the "uh--"
Exactly.
And if he puts the foot in the wrong place,
like it could be a whole new cycle.
Right.
So it's not quite that on a live show,
but it is that in some ways.
Like every sentence you say, that's it.
Yeah.
Like once it's out of your mouth--
DESUS: It's out there.
--you can't get it back.
And, you know, there's--
there's two million people watching.
Like, you could-- you-- you can say
the wrong thing very easily.
Right.
So there's a certain kind of mental focus.
Like that's part of the reason I like doing the podcast--
- Right. - --for the same reason.
You could do it, sometimes an interview doesn't go that well
or it's slow--
You could edit it.
--and it's like, all right, we'll just--
we'll cut that down. - Right.
Yeah.
Like this would be tough on live TV.
Yeah.
[LAUGHTER] Yeah, I mean, you know?
Slurring the words.
(SLURRING WORDS) Well, today ...
(SLURRING WORDS) Donald Trump--
Bernie Sanders.
(SLURRING WORDS) [INAUDIBLE] today.
- I liked the Bernie interview. - Thank you.
- That was great. - That was a fun interview.
- That was great. - Because we went in there and--
we didn't, you know, like we didn't research that much.
The funny thing about Bernie is that he's got such a--
his-- his persona is so strong.
But he's-- he's obviously a more complex
person than the persona.
Right.
And I feel like you can-- you get a little bit
of that when you're around him.
I feel like people just put him
in like the Jewish uncle box.
- Exactly. - Yeah.
It's like a Jewish uncle.
Right, yeah.
Like political Larry David.
Socialist uncle, yeah, right.
Socialist --
Uncle Sal.
Have you-- of all the presidential candidates
you've interviewed, like, what's the pecking order?
Like who has-- who has been the strongest interviewer?
Who got the juice?
Who's the one that you were like, "Wow."
I think, you know, I think they're--
here's one thing I'll say.
I think everyone in some ways is stronger
in long form interview formats than they are in the debates.
Definitely, because they're just doing talking points.
Yeah, because and because time is so truncated.
It's not really anyone's fault. You just kind of
have to do it like that.
It's always striking to me, like, you know,
when you have a candidate, you get talking points
from them or you see their ads or you see them on the stump
and they're saying the same thing.
It is striking-- and this is true of Cory Booker,
it's true of Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar and Warren
and Buttigieg and Sanders--
when you talk to them at length, say 50 minutes on a topic,
more often than not with the Democratic field,
I'm like, oh yeah, this person, this is a legit person.
This is a serious person who's given serious thought to this
and knows what they're talking about.
And part of what makes the political scenario weird--
so weird right now is just the difference
between that and the president.
Right.
Like when you watch the Democratic debate,
it's like all these people who are just doing kind
of normal politician stuff. - Right.
Like I've thought about how we should pay for our child care--
They have actual policies.
--credit, yeah, and it's just like not
like that on the other side. - Not anymore.
Trump is like (TRUMP IMPRESSION) "Eh, more tartar
sauce on the Filet-O-Fish.
We're amending the Second Amendment
to include Filet-O-Fish."
My favorite-- you know, my favorite,
my favorite picture of him ever taken in his presidency
is the omelet bar pic.
Do you know that pic?
Oh, no.
It's the best.
He's at-- he clearly, he spent the night
some Trump golf property.
And then he's-- I mean, he's the President of the United States,
but he's also like, he's also the owner.
And he's also a guy who wants to hit up the omelette bar.
Right.
And there's a picture of him at like one
of his own golf properties just like
chilling at the-- on the bar. He's got his nice--
Just waiting for the omelette?
Yeah, yeah, just like throw some extra mushrooms in there.
- Wow. - Like, there he is.
He's got like dollars like neatly.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
DESUS: Oh yeah, because he carries money.
MERO: Yeah.
DESUS: He's the only president I've ever
seen that carries cash, like--
Yeah.
MERO: You're the president, motherfucker,
[INAUDIBLE] for shit.
You never know-- you never know when an omelette
bar is going to pop up. DESUS: Damn.
If you're the president and you've
got to pay for something, your approval rating is probably--
Pretty much.
You can't go like, yo, yo--
At your own property.
DESUS: Is this him at the omelette bar?
Look at him. CHRIS HAYES: There he is.
There he is. MERO: Oh shit.
CHRIS HAYES: I love it. Look at him.
MERO: Oh, look at the flick of the wrist.
CHRIS HAYES: So good.
DESUS: He didn't even trust an aide to do it.
He was like, no, I got this.
CHRIS HAYES: No, he's like, I got this, I got this.
DESUS: I got this.
MERO: Yeah, he's like, yeah, listen--
CHRIS HAYES: They've got to put the right amount
of American cheese in.
MERO: (TRUMP IMPRESSION) --no vegetables,
put some beef in there.
CHRIS HAYES: Oh my god.
So do you think Kanye West is going to actually
run for president in 2024?
You know, it's so funny the Kanye transformation.
Because back in 2016, I would play
this game with all these people, the thought experiment.
Because I was watching what was happening with Trump.
And I was seeing conservatives being
really cross-pressured, right?
Because at one level, they're like,
I don't like Hillary Clinton and I'm a Republican.
I want the Republican to win.
But also some, some part of a huge percentage of people
were like, this guy should not be president, like, obviously.
And I would go around.
We had this brainstorming session,
like who is the Democratic Party version of that?
Who would be the person that if you're a Democrat
and it's a primary you're like, I don't think this--
and the person we came up with was Kanye.
DESUS: Wow.
And this was before the MAGA turn where I was like, yeah,
if Kanye West was leading the Democratic primary,
I would have to be like, no, Kanye shouldn't
have the nuclear codes.
And then after, after we came up with this thought experiment,
then he just went full--
--MAGA.
--full MAGA hat.
Damn.
So if he ran, he'd have to run as like probably a Republican,
correct?
I don't know, man, that would be wild.
He could probably do all right in the Democratic primary.
But he wouldn't last that long.
I think he probably would have a shot.
It's going to be him and Don Junior in 2024.
Yeah. MERO: Woof, oof.
- That's bleak. - I'll be in--
I'll be--
That's super bleak.
That is a real bleak.
Listen, if that's the case, you're going to have
to start drinking on your show.
Exactly.
Jesus.
Can you imagine covering that?
Oh my god, oh.
Yo, so your direct competition--
correct me if I'm wrong-- is Tucker Carlson.
Oh you know who that guy is?
That guy, yeah, the fat-- the guy with
the fat face and the bow tie.
DESUS: Was that the guy that got you put in Twitter jail?
That was the guy who put him in Twitter jail.
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, that jerk-off.
Shout out to my man Mero, defending
the pride the of Bronx. - It's been my honor.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Because I know MSNBC is probably like,
"Yo, Chris, chill." [APPLAUSE]
I know they probably told you to chill.
It's like, Mero's got it handled.
You know what I'm saying?
Listen, Bronx residents protect Bronx residents.
- That's right. - OK?
We all live in the same building, [INAUDIBLE]..
I had like--
I had like 50 tweets in all caps drafted about how I was going
to square up with him at the Bay Plaza parking lot, [LAUGHTER]
but I just never hit publish on them.
He beat you to it.
But then like--
and then just like in an amazing coincidence,
you just tweeted it all.
- See? - Aw, man.
Know what I'm saying?
I'm going to kick your ass.
I'm from the bagel cafe.
So he--
Tucker Carlson had talked mad shit about you.
Have you ever seen him in person?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen him in person.
- Is he just like, "Hi, Chris." - No, he's fine.
I mean, like-- MERO: How tall is he?
DESUS: Is it just TV?
I don't know.
No, I mean, I think what happens is, look,
I think you get acclimated.
You know, I just did a podcast with Ted Cruz, you know, live.
You know, you get acclimated to dealing--
[INAUDIBLE]
--you get acclimated to dealing with folks in person
that you have different politics from
or like say shit on the internet about you or on the--
like at a certain point, it's like we're all--
everybody's a public figure.
DESUS: Right.
Like people are going to say shit about me.
And that's, that's fine.
That's like, that's just what it is, you know?
I'm not going to--
everyone's just kind of got to deal with that.
I hate when people in public--
Right.
--and with public platforms, I hate it when
they whine about people criticizing them
or talking shit about them. MERO: Right.
DESUS: Because it's to be expected.
- That's just what it is. - Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, no, like buy the ticket, take the ride.
Like, you can go--
you can go work in a job where you don't have a big platform.
Right.
And people-- and people to come for you
if you have a big platform.
Like it's like with the billionaires
whining all the time. - Yeah.
It's like--
Why-- oh, because you're a billionaire, motherfucker.
Yeah, it's like, oh, I'm so sorry.
- You have a golden jet ski. - You're a billionaire.
Like, people are going to criticize you.
Sorry Jeff Bezos.
He's watching this at home like oh.
Do you read your Twitter mentions?
I do.
Oh.
I don't--
CHRIS HAYES: Yeah.
Careful.
No, no, I mean, they come up.
And I think the thing is because I've been on Twitter
since '08, like I grew up on Twitter,
like I know how to read my-- CHRIS HAYES: I know.
--I know how to read the mentions.
And like, people are just like, "Yo, blah, blah, blah,
you guys are not funny."
And I'm like, "Oh, well, them Showtime checks still clear,
so." CHRIS HAYES: Yeah.
Like I don't give a shit about Twitter.
After like my third Twitter jail bid, I was just like,
you know what?
Do You feel like-- how much though--
No, because I feel like--
I feel like you can-- it can get in your head, A.
But B, yes, you get-- you get good at screening it out.
But then every once in a while, like someone
will get your number. - Well, here's--
Like those are the ones-- like there's all sorts
of people say shit about you.
That's fine.
But every once in a while, like someone
gets your number a little bit. - Right.
And you're like--
But I just remember-- shout out to Charlemagne,
who told me this advice.
He was like, people love your show.
And when you-- when you tweet something,
instead of tweeting directly at, you just press like.
So you have a tweet and it has like 4,000 likes.
Right.
And you'll have a hater underneath that tweet--
Right and you just see the number.
--directly at you.
And you're like, why are you reacting to the one hater
and not the 4,000 people who like you?
CHRIS HAYES: Right, right.
Like you have to conserve your energy on Twitter.
And if you don't do that, you can't be on Twitter for a long.
A good thing to do that--
that doesn't come off as thirsty at all is you just follow
all the people that liked the tweet and then you just DM them
and be like, what did you like about that tweet?
It's like, you're just like, I'm just like, I'm just wondering.
What did you like about that tweet?
- I'm workshopping. - I saw you liked it.
Yeah.
So maybe you could just tell me what you why--
Be like, you got five minutes for a focus group?
You got to give them a gift--
I'll Cash App you $5.
You gotta give them a gift card at the end.
Oh man.
Do you still play football?
I don't play football.
We used to play--
We used to play tackle football--
--in the concrete schoolyard.
--the tennis court.
Oh my god.
New York shit.
Bronx shit.
We used to-- yo, fam--
Full-- and that was like-- there
was also a transition period.
It was like fourth or fifth grade
when we went from two-hand touch.
We were like, we're men now.
We went to full tackle.
We're men now.
We need to play tackle.
We're like little 11-year-old kids.
A kid got-- a kid got hurt--
I'm light skinned.
--on the actual playground that we played on.
And they banned tackle.
They banned tackle football, that's right.
So we started-- so we started playing on the tennis
courts in Co-op City.
We wylin'.
And the worst part, we were in the gifted program.
We were in the gifted program so we had
to prove ourselves even more.
Yeah, because all the kids thought we soft.
- That's right. - Yeah, and--
So then we were like-- then we were like--
- Yeah. - We're like, we're not nerds.
Full tackle.
Meanwhile, we're reading "The Catcher in the Rye"
in fourth grade.
And like half the class has concussions.
Yes, all of them.
Chris, I don't want you to break my heart.
Have you ever rapped?
No.
Thank you. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
MERO: A true ally.
This is what allies look like.
A true ally.
I was hoping there wasn't a YouTube clip right there.
No YouTube challenge over here.
Oh my god, could you imagine if I was like no and then
like 30 seconds later, your producer
is like, well, what about this?
I was like, I was like, ah, Chris, what are you doing?
It's you freestyling over "House of Payne."
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no, turn it off.
Turn it off. Turn it off.
Chris, we could chop it up with you all day,
but sadly this interview has to come to an end.
You know what it is.
Got the bodega behind us.
Inside bodegas are neon signs.
What would you like your neon sign to say?
Don't overthink it.
That's smart. Yes.
[APPLAUSE]
No what I'm saying?
Thanks Chris Hayes.
Listen, if you want to be smart, watch
"All In with Chris Hayes--"
--with Chris Hayes.
--weekdays at 8:00 PM Eastern on MSNBC.
Give it up the homie, Chris Hayes.
BX all day!
Also, if he was a rapper, it would be--
A true ally.
--a true ally.
A true ally, yeah.
[THEME MUSIC]