TIMES" COLUMNIST NICK, ALONG WITH NATURALLY, ROCK ’N’ ROLL
HALL OF FAMER, GEORGE CLINTON,
LEADER OF PARLIAMENT FUNKADELIC.
WE BEGIN WITH WHAT IS MEANT BY A
NEW PHASE IN OVERSIGHT.
THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING
NEXT WEEK.
NEXT WEEK. THE POWERFUL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE
CHAIR ANNOUNCING A SEPARATE VOTE
TO HOLD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN
CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS.
THEY WILL HOLD A VOTE ON
ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR AND
DON McGAHN ON TUESDAY AS PEOPLE
WARM TO KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS OF
THE MUELLER REPORT.
ALL OF THIS THAT I JUST
MENTIONED GOES OUT OF THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WHICH WILL
BE BUSY MONDAY WITH ITS FIRST
OBSTRUCTION HEARING ABOUT THE
MUELLER REPORT.
MUELLER REPORT. THAT’S NOT ALL.
TONIGHT THE JISH COMMITTEE IS
STARTING TO TELL THE WORLD ABOUT
MORE WITNESSES WHO WILL PROVIDE
EXPERT TESTIMONY TO INFORM THE
COMMITTEE, THE CONGRESS AND THE
PUBLIC ABOUT WHETHER DONALD
TRUMP COMMITTED CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY IN OFFICE.
SO IN ADDITION TO WATERGATE
COUNSEL JOHN DEAN BOTH ARE ALSO
LEGAL ANALYSTS AT MSNBC.
AND DEMOCRATS ARE BEARING DOWN
HOW AND IF THEY WILL MAKE THE
ULTIMATE FORMER PROSECUTOR
TESTIFY, BOB MUELLER.
AND NANCY PELOSI CONTINUES TO
DIAL UP HER RHETORIC AGAINST
TRUMP.
TRUMP. THE PRESIDENT HIT RIGHT BACK
AFTER SHE TOLD COLLEAGUES SHE
WOULD RATHER SEE DONALD TRUMP IN
PRISON THAN IMPEACHED.
>> I THINK SHE’S A DISGRACE.
I ACTUALLY DON’T THINK SHE’S A
TALENTED PERSON.
TALENTED PERSON. I’VE TRIED TO BE NICE BECAUSE I
WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE GOTTEN
SOME DEALS DONE.
SHE’S INCAPABLE OF DOING DEALS.
SHE’S A NASTY, VINDICTIVE,
HORRIBLE PERSON.
HORRIBLE PERSON. >> A COUPLE POINTS.
ONE, THERE ARE PEOPLE CONCERNED
THAT NANCY PELOSI IS VERGING ON
A LOCK HIM UP STYLE OF ATTACK
WHICH WOULD ECHO DONALD TRUMP.
OTHERS POINT OUT THAT DONALD
TRUMP IS LITERALLY THE LAST
POLITICIAN IN THE WORLD WHO CAN
COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT KIND OF
POLITICAL TREATMENT.
POLITICAL TREATMENT. THE DEEPER AND SUBSTANTIVE
QUESTION WHICH I’M ABOUT TO TURN
TO WITH OUR GUEST IS THIS.
DOES TALKING ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT’S POTENTIAL CRIMINAL
CONDUCT, EVEN IF SUPPORTED BY
EVIDENCE, SERVE AS A VALID
SUBSTITUTE FOR WHAT MANY
DEMOCRATS HAVE SAID INCLUDING ON
THIS SHOW, IT IS TIME FOR, WHICH
IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER IT IS
TIME FOR IMPEACHMENT.
I’M JOINED BY THE FORMER
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AND PETER, A PROGRESSIVE
ACTIVIST WHO SERVED AS INTERNET
DIRECTOR FOR HILLARY CLINTON’S
2008 CAMPAIGN.
2008 CAMPAIGN. GOOD EVENING TO BOTH OF YOU.
>> YOU’VE RUN A STATE PARTY.
YOU ARE A PERSON WHO HAS
ACTUALLY BALANCED ALL OF THIS.
I HAVE PLENTY OF LIBERALS AND
PROGRESSIVES.
PROGRESSIVES. YOU SAY PELOSI HAS THIS RIGHT.
>> I SAY WHAT SHE’S DOING, USED
THE WORD TAMP DOWN.
THAT’S WHAT WE ARE.
IF YOU LOOK AT HER STATEMENT A
FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN SHE SAID THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS GOADING HER
INTO IMPEACHING, GOADING
DEMOCRATS INTO IMPEACHMENT, THAT
SPECIFIC WORD AND THAT LANGUAGE
SENDS A MESSAGE TO ME THAT SHE’S
NOT GOING TO JUST TAKE BAIT
AUTOMATICALLY SHE WANTS TO FIND
A WAY TO CREATE THE NARRATIVE
FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
NOT JUST LAYING OUT WHY TRUMP
SHOULDN’T BE IN OFFICE BUT DOING
IT IN A WAY THAT ALSO PROTECTS
ALL OF THOSE DEMOCRATS THAT
FLIPPED SEATS LAST YEAR IF WE’RE
HEARING MORE FROM THOSE MEMBERS
OF CONGRESS, BECAUSE THEY’RE
GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT ARE
PROBABLY THE MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO
SOME OF THESE ISSUES.
>> PETER?
>> PETER? >> IF THEY START TO SUPPORT
THIS, I THINK THE TRIGGER IS
PULLED.
PULLED. >> OKAY, RESPECTFULLY, AND I
RESPECT YOU GREATLY, I DISAGREE
VERY, VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS.
LOOK, ARI, THIS IS NOT A TIME
FOR HALF MEASURES.
WE ARE FACING A THREAT WE’VE
NEVER FACED BEFORE.
CERTAINLY WITHIN OUR LIFE TIMES.
THAT’S AN AUTOCRAT.
SOMEBODY WITH NO RESPECT FOR A
RULE OF LAW.
THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR
DITHERING.
DITHERING. I DON’T WANT TO IMPUGN THE
INTEGRITY OF NANCY PELOSI OR
NADLER.
NADLER. BUT THEY ARE FAILING COLOSSALLY
AT THIS POINT.
THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE WE RISE
TO THE CHALLENGE AND THERE HAS
TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.
IF THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY,
THAT MEANS IMPEACHMENT, THEN WE
ARE NORMALIZING EVERYTHING THAT
HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST TWO AND
A HALF YEARS.
EVERY CHILD STOLEN FROM A
PARENT.
PARENT. EVERY SINGLE TRANSGRESSION EVERY
TIME DONALD TRUMP DISGRACED THE
OFFICE.
OFFICE. WE CAN’T DO THAT.
IT IS ON DEMOCRATS BECAUSE
THAT’S WHERE IMPEACHMENT STARTS.
>> YOU’RE MAKING AN ALMOST MORAL
CASE.
CASE. DO YOU THINK THE POLITICS BACK
YOU UP?
YOU UP? >> I THINK THE POLITICS DOESN’T
MATTER.
MATTER. AT THIS MOMENT IN HISTORY WE
HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE
CONSTITUTION DEMANDS OF US.
WE CANNOT HAVE A LAWLESS AND
CORRUPT PRESIDENT GETTING AWAY
WITH IT.
WITH IT. AND EVERY TIME WE SAY WE’LL WAIT
LONGER, WE’RE SAYING NOTHING HE
HAS DONE TO DATE RISES TO
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. WHICH IS ABSURD.
>> I DON’T DISAGREE WITH
ANYTHING UP.
ANYTHING UP. AND I SPENT ALL OF 2016 TALKING
ABOUT HOW MORALLY CORRUPT --
>> LET ME MAKE A JOKE AT YOUR
EXPENSE SPOKEN LIKE AN
ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRAT.
ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRAT. >> NO, NO.
>> LET ME EXPLAIN.
YOU DO DISAGREE AND SPEAKER
PELOSI SEEMS TO WANT IT BOTH
WAYS.
WAYS. PRISON IS MORE SEVERE THAN
IMPEACHMENTFUL SHE IS JUMPING TO
USE THE RHETORIC OF MR. DOW, IF
I CAN USE YOU AS A STANDARD.
SHE USES THE RHETORIC WITHOUT
THE SUBSTANCE.
THE SUBSTANCE. YOU SAY YOU AGREE BUT YOU DON’T.
>> I’M GOING ON PUSH BACK ON
YOUR PUSH BACK.
I’D RATHER SEE HIM IN PRISON
THAN IMPEACHED.
THAN IMPEACHED. I DON’T THINK YOU CAN HAVE IT
BOTH WAYS I THINK YOU HAVE TO
PULL THE TRIGGER ON IMPEACHMENT
AND YOU HAVE TO DO IT SOON.
I DON’T THINK SHE HAS
ADEQUATELY.
ADEQUATELY. SHE’S THE ONE WHO HAS TO DO
THIS.
THIS. SHE HASN’T ADEQUATELY LAID OUT
THE CASE AND PRESENTED THE
NARRATIVE TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. DO I THINK IT’S THERE?
YES.
YES. BUT I DON’T THINK SHE’S DONE IT
AND YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
YOU CANNOT SAY I WANT HIM IN
PRISON OR IMPEACHED.
WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN, IF WE
DON’T PULL THIS TRIGGER SOON,
WHAT THE NARRATIVE THAT WILL BE
WRITTEN ABOUT US IS THAT WE ARE
SLOW TO THE PUNCH.
WE’RE NOT ACTUALLY DOING OUR
JOB.
JOB. AND THAT WILL HURT US MORE THAN
ANYTHING ELSE.
ANYTHING ELSE. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE’S
TRYING TO DO.
THE ISSUE IS THAT IT IS NOT
HAPPENING QUICKLY ENOUGH FOR
MOST.
MOST. >> HERE’S THE CONTRADICTION.
SHE’S BLOCKING IMPEACHMENT.
THE SPEAKER, THE LEADERSHIP.
IT IS NOT JUST THE SPEAKER.
THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE
DONE.
DONE. A GOOD COP, BAD COP GOING ON THE
FACT IS MANY HAVE SAID IT’S TIME
FOR IMPEACHMENT.
FOR IMPEACHMENT. I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY DEMOCRATS
ARE MIT SIZING IT.
THE MORE YOU PLAY THIS BACK AND
FORTH, THE MORE YOU’RE PUTTING
IT INTO THE CALCULUS.
FUNDAMENTALLY WHEN A PRESIDENT
SAYS THE FOURTH ESTATE, THE
ENEMIES OF THE MEDIA.
IT IS A VIOLATION.
>> ARE YOU TIRED OF DEMOCRATIC
LEADERS SAYING WHAT THEY STAND
FOR IS NOT POPULAR RATHER THAN
TRYING TO MAKE WHAT THEY STAND
FOR POPULAR?
FOR POPULAR? >> I’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 20
YEARS.
YEARS. I’VE KNOWN YOU A LONG TIME.
BACK FROM THE PATRIOT ACT.
THE IRAQ WAR.
THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP NEEDS
TO CHANGE.
TO CHANGE. I’VE FLOATED THIS AND I’M
SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING IT.
I’VE BEEN A LONG TIME, UPPER
WEST SIDE RESIDENT.
I’M CONSIDERING RUNNING TO
NADLER.
NADLER. >> I KNOW YOU BUT I DIDN’T KNOW
THAT.
THAT. >> THE REASON IS --
>> PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THAT
CHAIRMAN NADLER MORE THAN PELOSI
HAS BEEN TRYING TO PUSH FORWARD
WITH WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> THAT’S WHAT’S BEING SAID.
JUST LIKE MANY OTHER DEMOCRATIC
POLITICIANS WHO HAVE BEEN
WILLING TO STEP UP IN THE HOUSE
AND SAY, WHATEVER THE SPEAKER
SAYS, I BELIEVE IT SHOULD HAPPEN
NOW.
NOW. I’M ONLY CONSIDERING IT.
I’M CONSIDERING IT BECAUSE I
WANT TO WALK THE TALK.
I CAN’T JUST SAY WE SHOULD DO
THIS.
THIS. >> DO YOU THINK BASIL WILL
ENDORSE YOU?
ENDORSE YOU? >> I’M GOING TO BRING IN A
REPORTER.
REPORTER. I WANT TO BRING IN A REPORTER
WITH AN EYE ON TRUMP.
WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT OF THE
DAILY MAIL BACK FROM THE
EUROPEAN TRIP WITH DONALD TRUMP.
AND I WANT TO MAY A LITTLE
VINTAGE TRUMP OF WHY I MAKE THE
PLAY AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW.
AND SOME THINGS BEAR REPEATING.
HE IS LITERALLY THE LAST PERSON
WHO CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT LOCK HIM
UP.
UP. AND YET, HE JUST OUTLINED THE
CONCERN THAT PARTICULAR POINT
WHERE SPEAKER PELOSI MAY NOT BE
A GOOD IDEA.
TAKE A LOOK AT THE HISTORY.
>> SHE SHOULD BE IN PRISON.
>> SHE SHOULD BE IN JAIL FOR
WHAT SHE DID WITH HER EMAILS.
>> SHE SHOULD BE IN JAIL.
>> HILLARY CLINTON SHOULD HAVE
BEEN PROSECUTED AND GONE TO JAIL
FOR WHAT SHE DID.
>> SHE GIVES SPECIAL TREATMENT
UNDER THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
>> LOCK HER UP IS RIGHT.
>> HOW IS THE LATEST ATTACK
PLAYING OVER IN THE WHITE HOUSE?
BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND
REPORTING AND WHAT KIND OF
DONALD TRUMP DID WE GET COMING
BACK FROM THIS TRIP?
>> I WAS THERE AT THE CEMETERY
YESTERDAY IN THE NORMANDY REGION
WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP JUST WENT
ON THE ATTACK ON NANCY PELOSI.
SO TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE CONTEXT
ABOUT THAT, HE IS LANDING, DOING
THIS INTERVIEW WITH FOX NEWS.
FIRST TIME HE BROUGHT UP NANCY
PELOSI, HE WAS NOT ASKED ABOUT
HER.
HER. THE SECOND TIME HE WAS ASKED
ABOUT THE IMPEACHMENT COMMENTS.
HE SAID IT WAS DISGUSTING AND HE
REALLY LET LOOSE ON NANCY
PELOSI.
PELOSI. COMPARATIVELY, NANCY PELOSI WAS
ALSO AT THAT SAME EXACT EVENT
YESTERDAY.
YESTERDAY. SHE DID NOT BRING UP DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. SPECIFICALLY WHEN SHE WAS
TALKING TO HER COLLEAGUE ANDREA
MITCHELL.
MITCHELL. WHEN I SPOKE TO HER, SHE DIDN’T
BRING HIM UP EITHER.
I THINK IT IS WORTH POINTING OUT
THAT NEITHER I NOR ANDREA
MITCHELL DIRECTLY ASKED.
>> AS A REPORT HE ON "THE BEAT,"
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS
TALKING APPOINTMENT THAT DONALD
TRUMP’S FOLKS CLAIM HE WANTS TO
BE IMPEACHED?
BE IMPEACHED? >> WELL, NANCY PELOSI SAYS THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOADING
DEMOCRATS TOWARD THAT.
BUT CERTAINLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND THE WHITE HOUSE BELIEVE THAT
THEY CAN WIN IN 2020 FAIR AND
SQUARE AGAINST ANY DEMOCRAT AND
THAT INCLUDES JOE BIDEN WHO IS
CURRENTLY SEEN AS THE
FRONT-RUNNER.
FRONT-RUNNER. >> YES.
>> YES. JOE BIDEN IS SEEN AS THE
FRONT-RUNNER AND THE POLLS BEAR
THAT OUT.
THAT OUT. AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
AMERICANS WHO BELIEVE DONALD
TRUMP WILL BE REELECTED.
I’VE TALKED TO A LOT OF
DEMOCRATIC VOTERS THAT HAVE SAID
THAT.
THAT. AND I THINK AGAIN, THAT’S THE
CHALLENGE THAT SOMEONE LIKE
NANCY PELOSI HAS.
IT IS NOT NECESSARILY ME SAYING
THAT I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVEN’T
PUT UP A GOOD RATIONALE THUS
FAR.
FAR. IF YOU’RE GOING BACK TO YOUR
EARLIER STATEMENT.
EARLIER STATEMENT. IF YOU’RE TRYING TO MANAGE A
PARTY APPARATUS, THERE ARE SO
MANY THINGS TO BALANCE.
TRYING TO ELECT A DEMOCRAT TO
THE WHITE HOUSE.
TO GAIN MORE SEATS, EVEN TRY TO
FLIP THE SENATE.
THOSE ARE JUST A LOT OF THINGS
TO HAVE TO BALANCE.
I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A
DECISION SOON.
DECISION SOON. WHETHER IT IS HILLARY CLINTON OR
FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON, I
THINK IT IS ON EVERY DEMOCRAT
WHO HAS BEEN FIGHTING
REPUBLICANS FOR LAST 20 PLUS
YEARS TO FACE UP TO THE FACT
THAT WE ARE LOSING.
I LOOK AT MY OWN ACTIVISM THE
LAST 20 YEARS.
I LOOK AT IT AND I SAY HOW DID
WE GET HERE?
WE NEED CHANGE AT THE TOP OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
DEMOCRATIC PARTY. WE’RE AT A POINT WHERE WE HAVE
PRETTY MUCH A LAWLESS PRESIDENT.
WE HAVE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL, A
PR GUY.
PR GUY. IT IS NOT JUST IMPEACHMENTFUL
THERE’S ANOTHER THING AND YOU’RE
A VERY GOOD ATTORNEY YOURSELF.
THEY ARE ABLE TO DO, THEY’RE
ABLE TO ARREST.
THERE IS THE INHERENT CONTEMPT
LAWYER.
LAWYER. DEMOCRATS COULD ARREST THOSE
WHO.
WHO. >> REAL QUICK.
>> I THINK WE SHOULD START DOING
THAT.
THAT. BECAUSE EVEN IN THE NIXON
IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES, NOT
RESPONDING TO SUBPOENAS WAS PART
OF THE ARGUMENT.
IF WE’RE NOT AT THAT POINT, IF
WE’RE NOT GETTING THAT
INFORMATION, I THINK THERE
SHOULD BE.
SHOULD BE. >> THAT’S FASCINATING TO TAKE
THE TEMPERATURE HERE.
AS WE’VE BEEN REPORTING, GOING
INTO THE FIRST HEARINGS ON THE