ANNELISE: The Crossbench has pushed Parliament to declare a Climate Emergency.
Bushfires continue to rage in Queensland.
Greens MP Adam Bandt is leading the charge as Australia
is labelled an embarrassing laggard when it comes to climate change action.
Joining us now is Adam Band from the Greens party
as well as former Liberal leader, John Hewson.
So I think we do have a major climate event,
in that hell has frozen over and the Liberals have joined with the Greens.
This is pretty extraordinary you coming together.
HEWSON: Well, the issue is more important than either of us.
BANDT: This is about facts and science really and some things should be
above politics and understanding the dire state of the climate emergency
should be one of those.
ANNELISE: Look you don't have the numbers with the crossbench in
the lower house at the moment are you hoping some Liberal MPs will actually
cross the floor to support this climate change emergency?
BANDT: Oh I am. Before the election Scott Morrison was out
telling everyone that he believed in the science of climate change and now
barely a few days later you've got a minister saying he's not even sure
if climate change is real?
But I know that there are a few Liberal backbenchers who do
believe in the science of climate change and look at what the Government is doing
with embarrassment and we're moving this motion because the first step in fixing
a problem is admitting that you've got a problem.
The students get it. Which is why you're going to see millions out on the streets
for the Global Climate Strike on the 20th.
The international community gets it. UK's declared a climate emergency
France has, Canada has and you know there are conservatives in those Parliaments
and indeed in those governments as well.
There's a global summit in a few weeks of leaders in New York to work out how
to cut pollution even faster and so I am optimistic that we can get the numbers
in the House of Representatives and in the Senate if there if there is a free vote
to have Australia join the international community
and recognise the severity of the problem.
ANNELISE: John Hewson this is pretty extraordinary to come out
against your own party's policy. You have been quite critical of this issue
of climate change in the Liberal Party's dealing with it in the past.
What has compelled you to do this today?
HEWSON: Well I have a view that the party he had a very good policy
in the early 90s which was my policy a 20% cut in emissions by the year 2000
off a 1990 base.
If we'd done that and sustained that we'd be way past the Paris targets
and we'd created probably hundreds of thousands of jobs,
billions of dollars of investment.
ANNELISE: Scott Morrison does say we're meeting those targets in a canter
you don't agree?
HEWSON: he's sort of taking benefits from the past and it's probably
using some credits from offshore. I mean we have to focus on the
magnitude of the task in this country. Although – we are one of the highest
per capita emitters in the world we of course have a global responsibility
as one of the, I think, the second largest exporter of fossil fuels
in the world, LNG and coal,
So I think we need to start thinking about our global responsibilities
as well as our domestic challenges and in those terms
I mean, the idea of this to me, is to give all the parliamentarians a conscious vote
and let them be accountable from this day on or, from the day that the
vote is taken on, to their constituents, to their children, to their grandchildren,
to future generations as to what their stance was on what is
the most challenging issue of this century.
ANNELISE: Adam Bandt, you're going to be accused
of this being a political stunt. Is it?
BANDT: well this is about making sure that Australia is less likely to be facing
severe bush fires, less likely to be having severe droughts.
We are barely a week out of winter and Australia is burning.
We've been warned that our rivers are drying up and we are facing
record drought, right?
We need parliament to take this Government by the shoulders
shake it, wake it up and shake some sense into it.
Once we recognise that we are facing a global emergency
where the commitments under the Paris agreement at the moment
have us on track for 3.5 degrees of global warming right?
Now at four degrees of global warming
there's only carrying capacity for a billion people on this planet.
Now seven into…
How does seven billion go down to one billion?
Not without a lot of starvation, a lot of war, a lot of conflict.
We are facing an emergency. Once we recognise that
then we can reorient the whole of government policies towards it
but at the moment we've got a government that seems to be in denial
that says on the one hand it believes in the science of climate change
and on the other hand has us on track for 3.5 degrees of global warming.
Now in a few weeks time there'll be a test for the Prime Minister.
The world leaders are meeting at the request of the UN
to discuss how we're going to cut pollution even further
to meet the Paris agreement targets. which Australia's not on track
to do at the moment. Scott Morrison is going to be in the United States
meeting Donald Trump. The question is is he going to hang around for an extra
couple of days and go to this summit and say yep we want to make sure we keep
global warming below two degrees or ideally one and a half and we're going
to do more to make sure we meet it.
So this isn't a stunt. This is about saying this has got to be the number one
priority of politics in this country.
HEWSON: I think one of the most telling examples of recent times was
Theresa May and one of the last things she did as PM in the UK was
to declare a climate emergency.
This is the country that led the Industrial Revolution based on coal.
I remember the very painful and disruptive coal mining strikes in the Thatcher era
for example, and they have made a huge transition away from coal and
I think that they stand as a glaring example to a country like Australia
of what you can do if you decide to do it manage it over a couple of decades
do it sensibly, take account of the the opportunities on one side and the
impacts on the other but if you manage the process it's it's no telling how far
you can go, and rather than be a laggard in the climate debate we should be a
leader because we've got tremendous sun and wind and other resources
we have the capacity to lead the world in the response to climate change and
we've just squandered that opportunity over the last several decades.
ANNELISE: You've been quite consistently critical of the Liberal Party over this handling
of this issue and you're quite passionate about it.
Do you still consider yourself a Liberal?
HEWSON: Well I have predominately Liberal values in terms of the
significance of the of the individual and the significance of market forces
and low levels of government and government regulation.
But having said that, what I see in the Liberal Party today is if you were a
true conservative, and
you did believe in small government you did believe in low levels
of regulation, you did believe in market forces you'd immediately put a price on carbon.
That is the obvious Liberal solution to this problem.
ANNELISE: I think they disagree.
HEWSON: And fundamental to the transition that has got to be made.
So you know I just think they've lost their roots quite frankly.
ANNELISE: so don't you consider yourself a Liberal now?
HEWSON: No I've just explained how I am a Liberal. I'm not a member of the party
and my dues lapsed, but having said that I'm still motivated by the same things
that got me into Parliament in the first place.
BANDT: Bushfires don't care whether you vote Liberal, Labor, Greens…
HEWSON: It's not a political issue.
BANDT: Droughts don't care who you vote for. At the end of the
day we're facing a threat that is going to hurt a lot of people in Australia.
It's going to mean and life will be much tougher for farmers
it's going to mean not only going to every winter wondering
when the next bushfire and heatwave is going to hit and how many people are
going to die but we're now only better in – every summer, rather.
We're now worrying about in spring and even just barely out a winter.
ANNELISE: If we just go to this issue of actually declaring the Climate Emergency
bushfires don't really care about that either. What difference does it make to
actually call it a Climate Emergency as opposed to just be discussing climate policy?
HEWSON: Hopefully mobilise activity
You talk about being in politics, I think when I was in politics if 50% of the people
thought something was a good idea I'd have a damn good look at it.
Now you've got 60, 70, 80 percent of people saying we want
decisive leadership by government in response to climate
we want a transition to renewables we want a movement to electric vehicles
we want to cut pollution levels on the roads, and so on.
Thousands of elements to this, all of which we should be doing
and so I think the opportunity for this country is enormous.
BANDT: It is about mobilising country.
When the Parliament declares that we're at war it's a sign
that it's all shoulders to the wheel to defend the national interest
and when Parliament declares and when the government declares
that we are now facing a Climate Emergency.
It's an understanding that we've got to
stop doing the things that are making global warming worse and
start doing things that are going to make Australians safer.
So the first step in fixing a problem is admitting that you've got a problem
and at the moment I think that governments have lied to us lied to people
about the severity of the problem and how urgent the need is to act
and there have been some exceptions in recent past but at the moment
Scott Morrison's out there saying that's all okay we're all on track
to meet our targets, well we're not.
What we're on track for is seeing the kind of drought that we've got now
becoming a feature of our way of life not an aberrant effect
not something that happens every now and then
but a feature of our way of life and I don't think people want that.
ANNELISE: Well I have to leave it there
But we'll be keeping a keen eye on the crossbench today.
Adam Bandt from the Greens and former Liberal leader John Hewson, thank you.
BOTH: Thank you.