WITH PRO-TRUMP STICKERS AND A LOT OF SORT OF ANTI-MEDIA AND
DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS STICKERS.
NINE YEARS AGO THERE WAS A
CONTROVERSIAL FEDERAL REPORT
THAT WAS WARNING OF THE DANGERS
OF RIGHT WING EXTREMISM.
ACCORDING TO THE AUTHOR, THE
ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 2008 GOING
INTO 2009 AND THE ELECTION OF
THE FIRST AVENTURA AFRICAN
PRESIDENT PRESENT -- IT CREATED
A FIRESTORM ON CAPITOL HILL THE.
DARRELL JOHNSON WROTE THAT
REPORT AS A SENIOR DOMESTIC
TERRORISM ANALYST FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
MR. JOHNSON, THANKS FOR COMING
ON.
ON. >> THANK YOU, CHUCK.
>> SO YOU HAVE SEEN TODAY’S
NEWS.
NEWS. IS THERE ANY PART OF YOUR REPORT
THAT YOU WROTE IN 2009 THAT, IF
LAW ENFORCEMENT HAD IT TODAY
THAT MIGHT HAVE PREVENTED THIS?
>> I DON’T KNOW ABOUT PREVENTING
IT.
IT. WE SOUNDED THE ALARM IN 2009
THAT DUE TO THE ECONOMIC
DOWNTURN AND UNPRECEDENTED
ELECTION OF HAVING THE FIRST
AFRICAN-AMERICAN ELECTED THIS
WOULD SERVE AS A DECROUT.
BOOM FOR EXTREMIST GROUPS ON THE
FAR RIGHT.
FAR RIGHT. ANTI-GOVERNMENT GROUPS, WHITE
SUPREMACISTS, PEOPLE THAT DON’T
WANT TO BE U.S. CITIZENS,
SOVEREIGN CITIZENS.
SOVEREIGN CITIZENS. >> THIS WAS -- THE REPORT WAS
CRITICIZED, SOME REPUBLICANS ON
CAPITOL HILL THOUGHT IT WAS
ENEGG
ENEGG ENCROACHING ON SPEECH TO SAY
WHAT’S WRONG WITH CRITICIZING
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. WHAT LINE DID YOU DRAW BETWEEN
NORMAL CRITICISM VERSUS
EXTREMISM?
EXTREMISM? >> THERE WERE TWO POINTS OF
CRITICISM.
CRITICISM. ONE WAS THE FACT THAT WE POINTED
TO RETURNING MILITARY VETERANS
COMING HOME TO A DOWNTURN IN THE
ECONOMY, NOT GETTING THE HEALTH
CARE THAT THEY DESERVED, AND
THAT THEY MAY BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO
REVUT.
REVUT. RECRUITMENT BY THE GROUPS.
THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE TARGETS
OF RECRUITMENT BECAUSE OF THEIR
MILITARY TRAINING AND
LEADERSHIP.
LEADERSHIP. SO THAT WAS ONE CONTROVERSIAL
POINT.
POINT. THE OTHER, AS YOU POINTED OUT,
WAS THE VAGUE DEFINITION THAT WE
HAD BURIED IN A FOOTNOTE THAT
TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
THAT OPPOSED ABORTION AND
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND WERE
ANTI-GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL.
TAKING THAT DEFINITION OUT OF
CONTEXT, I COULD SEE WHERE THERE
WAS CONFUSION, BUT WITHIN THE
SCOPE OF THE DOCUMENT VIOLENT
EXTREMISM, CRIMINALITY,
EXTREMISM, CRIMINALITY, TERRORISM.
TERRORISM. THAT’S WHERE THE MESSAGE GOT
LOST IS WHEN THAT
MISCHARACTERIZATION OCCURRED.
MISCHARACTERIZATION OCCURRED. >> FOR ABOUT FOUR, FIVE YEARS
DURING, LET’S SAY, SORT OF THE
RISE OF, AS AL QAEDA WAS BROKEN
UP AND SAUDISISIS FORMED AND THE
A CONCERN ABOUT RADICALIZATION
OF MUSLIMS IN THE UNITED STATES,
ECONOMICALLY CHALLENGED MUSLIMS
IN THE APPROXIMATE MIDDLE EASTMI
LIKE YOU WERE TRYING TO SOUND
THE ALARM HERE.
IS THERE RADICALIZATION CONCERNS
THAT -- IS THERE A SPECIFIC
GROUP WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT
TODAY?
TODAY? >> THERE CERTAINLY IS.
THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF
GROUPS.
GROUPS. WHEN WE LOOK AT DOMESTIC
TERRORISM, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
GROUPS ON THE FAR FRINGES OF THE
RIGHT, HATE-BASED GROUPS,
ANTI-GOVERNMENT GROUPS.
ANTI-GOVERNMENT GROUPS. THEN WE HAVE THOSE ON THE FAR
FRINGES OF THE LEFT LIKE THE
ANARCHISTS AND ANTIFA.
ANSWER RIGHTS EXTREMISTS AND ECO
TERRORISTS AND ANTI ABORTION
EXTREMISTS.
EXTREMISTS. WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT
RADICALIZE HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. >> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TOOLS --
I GUESS WHAT ARE BEST PRACTICES
TO TRY TO DE-ESCALATE, TO TRY TO
KEEP MORE FOLKS FROM BEING
RADICALIZED, WHETHER IT’S THIS
GENTLEMAN HERE OR THE CRAZY GUY
THAT SHOT STEVE SCALISE?
>> THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN
LOOKING AT THIS PROBLEM FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS.
THERE HAS BEEN A NUMBER OF
RECOMMENDATIONS PUT FORWARD, BUT
NONE HAVE REALLY BEEN PUT INTO
PRACTICE.
PRACTICE. ONE IS COUNTER MESSAGING.
GOING OUT THERE.
WHEN SOMEONE IS EMBRACING A
CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT IS
TOTALLY UNTRUE, TO CHALLENGE
THAT AND TO SHOW THE COUNTER
POINTS TO THAT AND HOW THAT
BELIEF SYSTEM ISN’T PLAUSIBLE OR
LOGICAL.
LOGICAL. SO THAT WAS ONE THING.
BUT THE EMPHASIS OF THIS
ADMINISTRATION AS WELL AS THE
PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION IS TO
PUT RESOURCES AND TRAINING,
FAITH-BASED LEADERS IN THE
MUSLIM COMMUNITY TO TRY TO
IDENTIFY THOSE WHO MAY HAVE MORE
RADICAL VIEWS AND TO REPORT
THOSE PEOPLE TO THE FBI SO THAT
THEY COULD BE MONITORED.
>> IS THAT A PROGRAM THAT NOW WE
SHOULD BE CONSIDERING MORE THAN
JUST IN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES AND
WORRYING ABOUT INTERNATIONAL
TERRORISM?
TERRORISM? >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. AND SO WE COME TO 2017 AND WE’RE
STARTING TO REALIZE THAT WE NEED
TO HAVE SOME OF THESE, YOU KNOW,
FEDERAL DOLLARS GOING IT
ORGANIZATIONS TO COMBAT THE
NON-ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS HERE IN
THE UNITED STATES.
WE ACTUALLY HAD ONE ORGANIZATION
CALLED LIFE AFTER HATE THAT WAS
SUPPOSED TO GET A GRANT OF
SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND
DOLLARS.
DOLLARS. THIS ORGANIZATION OR ACTUALLY
PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT THE WHITE
NATIONALIST MOVEMENT AND
REALIZED ALL OF THE DECEPTION
AND ALL OF THE FALSEHOODS THAT
WERE IN THAT MOVEMENT.
AND SO THEY SET UP AN
ORGANIZATION LIFE AFTER HATE
HOPING TO REACH OUT TO THOSE
DISAFFECTED WHITE NATIONALISTS
WHO ARE ON THE FENCE OR MAY HAVE
VULNERABILITIES, TO PULL THEM
OUT OF THE MOVEMENT, AND THE
FUNDING WAS PULLED IN 2017 BY
THIS ADMINISTRATION.
THIS ADMINISTRATION. >> THIS ISSUE OF NATIONALISTS IS
A BUZZ WORD.
IS THAT A TRIGGER WORD WITH SOME
OF THESE HATE GROUPS?
>> IT CERTAINLY IS.
IT’S A TERM THAT HAS MORPHED
RECENTLY.
RECENTLY. WE USED TO CALL THEM SEPARATIST.
WHITE NATIONALISM IS A TERM THEY
USE TO DISMISS THE HATRED AND
BIGOTRY THAT IS AT THE CENTER OF
THOSE THINGS.
THOSE THINGS. >> THE ISSUE OF SOCIAL MEDIA
BEING SO PERVASIVE, IT SEEMED TO
ME THAT ALL OF THE PROGRAMS THAT
I REMEMBER LOOKING AT AND
STUDYING AND REPORTING ABOUT TO
TRY TO COMBAT THIS ISIS
PROPAGANDA, THEY DIDN’T WORK.
THEY REALLY DIDN’T WORK.
SO IS SOCIAL MEDIA JUST
SOMETHING THAT’S ALMOST
IMPOSSIBLE TO COMBAT WHEN IT
COMES TO CONSPIRACY THEORIES?
THE FAR END OF AM RADIO WAS EASY
TO ISOLATE IN THE ’70s AND ’80s.
IT’S NOT EASY NOW.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. CERTAINLY THE ADVENT OF THE
INTERNET AND THE TECHNOLOGIES
ASSOCIATED HAS COMPOUNDED THIS
PROBLEM AND IT HAS ACTUALLY
BROUGHT THE EXTREMIST MESSAGING
INTO THE PRIVACY OF PEOPLE’S
HOMES.
HOMES. SO, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF
DECADES AGO WHEN I WAS STUDYING
THESE MOVEMENTS, YOU ACTUALLY
HAD TO GO TO A KKK RALLY ON
SOMEONE’S PROPERTY OR, YOU KNOW,
KNOW SOMEBODY WITHIN THESE
MOVEMENTS AND HAVE FACE-TO-FACE
INTERACTION.
INTERACTION. NOWADAYS PEOPLE CAN COME ACROSS
THIS EXTREMIST PROPAGANDA AND
ANTI-GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY
ANTI-GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY THEORIES IN THE COMFORT OF THEIR
OWN HOME, PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN
HOME, AND HAVE ANONYMITY.
>> IF YOU WERE ASKED TO WRITE
HAD REPORT TODAY, WOULD YOU
CHANGE ANYTHING IN IT?
>> I WOULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING.
MINE, OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE HAD,
YOU KNOW, SEVERAL ATTACKS, YOU
KNOW, AUTO YEARYEAR AFTER YEAR.
I GUESS I WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE