from a legal perspective vulnerable
populations like the elderly get more
leeway in the use of deadly force thank
you for joining us on today's active
self protection lesson I'm your host
John Correa today's video comes to us
from Cleveland Ohio in the United States
after thorough testing I recently
changed my everyday OC spray to pom
personal defense spray it's nasty stuff
and I recommend it highly we're on a
public bus here and the older guy in the
orange is a guy named Abdul Rahman he
actually fought as a professional boxer
under the name Ricardo Spain got knocked
out by Mike Tyson in 1985 and he's
having a problem with a bunch of teens
on this bus and they are yipping back
and forth you can see that here now if
you understand what the context is here
Rahman has had several run-ins with
Cleveland PD he is actually a felon a
prohibited possessor so these teens are
giving him a hard time we don't know
what all the argument is here but we do
have some audio it's a bit kind of hard
to listen to but listen closely and
we'll come back at the end
[Music]
after being shot the guy in white ran
off and ran to a neighbor's house but he
did not make it if you go read the news
story linked in the description Robins
actions were considered justified but he
was convicted of being a felon in
possession and the judge gave him
probation in that instance boy do we got
a lot to talk about out of this one
that's where it ends I think we're gonna
have to talk about some significant
issues out of this one start to finish
and one of the ways you can get better
as a self defender is joining us on our
second channel active self protection
extra every single Friday we talk about
legal and moral use of force and how we
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defenders and only use the right amount
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you it's great education every week
let's think about lessons out of this
one first lesson I really want to talk
about out of this one is again
de-escalation escape-and-evasion I get
it Rahman is a proud man he's fought as
a heavyweight boxer he has some
significant skills and he has this idea
that says no man a little punk kid is
not gonna step to me but I can't tell
you enough as a self defender a great
opportunity here to just practice
de-escalation escape and avoidance have
a strong enough sense of self that you
don't have to tell some punk kid what's
up in your world I do think it's
interesting that it looks to me like
this gentleman and the hat kind of gets
in between them and and gets a little
bit between without really seeming to do
so and I think that was actually a
pretty good tactic on his part now
notice here as well when the team gets
up and starts hiking up his backpack and
his pants that is a pre attack indicator
you got to recognize when you see people
hiking their pants up like that that's
an indicator they want to go they are
willing to have a physical conflict that
is absolutely a hundred percent unknown
pre attack indicator far better here to
just break contact with these guys and
have something like maybe an OC spray
that if you had to at that point hey man
I don't want to have any fight with you
I'd rather OC spray if I had to rather
than end up in a gunfight with you now
that said this guy decides to put his
hands here on Rahman you see here that
he has initiated physical contact
they've been yep in and that's a verbal
cut you know conflict but right here
when he smacks him with his hand like
that
that is considered a salt that could put
someone in imminent fear of physical
harm and and therefore when he's saying
hey let's fight you and me step off this
bus let's go
would a reasonable elderly person say
hey wait a minute that kid wants to beat
me up and I am not in the shape I used
to be and therefore I am in fear that he
would physically harm me yes that is
absolutely the case now what happens
here what Rahman does is draw his
firearm
couple things here number one he's a
prohibited possessor he's a felon in
possession of a gun that instantly puts
him in the wrong number two you got to
have that discussion and I think yeah
yeah the idea says wait a minute is that
even cool if somebody is willing to be
out in society if we trust them enough
to be out in society should they have
their second Amendment rights removed I
think the answer to that is no
personally if we don't trust them with
firearms we shouldn't trust them in
society that's a whole separate issue
number three though one of the things
that I think we can really talk about is
the idea that says is this justified
conduct well the court decided that it
was or that at least that it wasn't
beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't
but one of the things you want to think
about here is why is that the reason
that is is because he's an elderly guy
and there's this kid not only had him
but he had a bunch of other people
around so the elderly as a vulnerable
population does get additional leeway
and when they could reasonably say I was
in fear of my life I was in fear of
great bodily harm or death so the fact
of the matter is he could do that
whereas a lot of people couldn't and who
you are as a person really matters
because again an elderly person who is
physically frail could have a much more
opportunity to do that make sure you
check the local laws in your area now
that said notice that when he pulled the
gun it riled everyone up and made
everyone against him which is a great
reason not to show a firearm because of
situations like this now he gets another
guy stepping off the bus at him who is
angry about it again showing the firearm
can escalate the problem not de-escalate
the problem and not everybody is afraid
of you just because you show a firearm
that's the case with this guy in the
white who is again hiking up his pants
when somebody hikes up their pants
recognize they are ready to go that is
an absolute pre attack indicator that
says oh hey I am getting ready for
physical conflict and so you want to
create space and get away from them this
would be a perfect spot for an OC spray
they just hose that guy down rather than
how
to shoot him you say no let me diminish
you bless you with the jerk sauce and
then get away from you then you wouldn't
have that court battle you wouldn't had
all those other problems now of course
he had problems because he's a
prohibited possessor in possession of a
firearm
now then though is it reasonable that
when this guy shows up like this and our
good guys backing off multiple attackers
here he's already shown the fact hey I
have a firearm I'll defend myself and
this guy's gonna walk him down could he
reasonably as an elderly gentleman say
hey wait a minute
I feared for great bodily harm and I
have reasonable evidence that this guy
meant me harm and that could be great
bodily harm and death because of my age
and frailty the answer is probably yes
because of who he is so recognize that
the standard of the law is always the
same it is applied individually to the
facts of the case and the fact of the
matter is he did shoot once and again it
wasn't convicted of any crime related to
the actual self-defense but he was
convicted of the crime of a felon in
possession of a firearm so am i cool
with felons and possessions of firearms
no it's illegal and it's a felony
offense and I just wouldn't recommend it
and I think that okay we don't like that
I do also think maybe we should make
some changes to that but that's a whole
separate issue I do think though we
recognize out of this one that when you
are a vulnerable person you do get a
little bit more leeway in the eyes of
the law though the principles are
applied identically and I think that
this is a great video that shows why we
want to de-escalate escape and evade and
why we do want to have a less lethal
tool like an OC spray on us because I
think this one could have been avoided
and because of that this is a gun fight
that could have been avoided and all of
the aftermath of that that really caused
some serious grief for mr. Rocklin and
so therefore I would recommend all of us
recognize that a less lethal tool and a
commitment to de-escalation
escape-and-evasion is probably a better
solution to cover our ass