PAUL PETERSON: I have with me today Jeb Bush, the former governor of Florida,
who when he was governor saw the greatest
improvement in student performance of any state in the United States.
That was between 1998 and 2006.
And one of the things that he did as governor
was to address the problem of teacher quality.
Jeb, there's a lot of problems in American education today.
And one of them is the declining quality of teachers.
It used to be that we recruited a lot of teachers
from the very best schools in the country.
It's harder to do that today.
There is Teach for America, which is bringing a lot of talented people
into the teaching profession.
But in general, it's very difficult to get our very best college graduates
to go into teaching.
So what were some of the things that you did in Florida,
and what are some of the things that could be done to enhance
the quality of the teaching profession?
JEB BUSH: Well thank you Paul.
It's always a joy to be with you.
You're one of the experts that takes data and analyzes it
and does the kind of research that allows
policymakers to implement policies.
And that's what I got to do as governor.
In Florida we had a growing student population and a teaching cadre
that was diverse of course, because Florida
is a diverse state, but a lot of teachers
that were nearing the end of their career,
because of just the aging of our population.
So 60,000 teachers-- students a year, combining with a declining teacher
population, required us to act before other states.
PAUL PETERSON: So more students, fewer teachers.
JEB BUSH: Yeah, not a good plan.
That was not a good plan at all.
So what did we do?
Well we opened up our system.
We have these antiquated certification programs
that exist in the country that were designed literally a hundred years ago.
And the schools of education had robust programs back in the day.
But they've de-emphasized that.
And so we've created reciprocity for anybody
that is credentialed as a teacher in any state can come teach in Florida.
PAUL PETERSON: And that was one of the real obstacles to teachers
who had to move from one state to another and all of a sudden
lost their job and couldn't get them back.
JEB BUSH: The system was designed to protect the existing teachers.
It was a protectionist system and we opened it up.
I think other things that are important to do
is if you're a subject matter expert, if you're an engineer
and you want to teach math, in the old days you couldn't do that.
You had to go back to school.
PAUL PETERSON: Well that's just exactly where the shortages are,
in math and science.
JEB BUSH: In the STEM.
So in Florida if you're a subject matter expert,
you can get a temporary certification to teach.
And we've streamline the process to be able to get a permanent certification.
Paying more for those for the places where you have shortages
is part of this, and paying people, paying teachers
for rising student achievement.
So if you want to build a professional teaching cadre,
you've got to have professional development.
But you also have to pay the extraordinary teachers
more so they stay in the classroom.
PAUL PETERSON: But we tend to have a lock step teaching--
JEB BUSH: Exactly.
PAUL PETERSON: --payment schedule.
JEB BUSH: And so Washington, DC is the best example
of this where teachers could opt out of the traditional collective bargaining
process, which is a step plan based on how long you were there,
to dramatic increases in spending for teachers that had great peer
reviews by their fellow teachers, by the principal who's
the CEO of the school of course, and by test scores for students.
And the implementation of test scores as part of this I think
is a central part of this.
Now in Florida we had something else.
We bonus teachers outside of the collective bargaining
agreement for schools that show improvement or are A rated.
They get, in effect, $100 per student the school does,
and that goes back in the form of a bonus to the school personnel.
It's $150 million a year.
In Florida if a teacher begins to teach AP classes,
the school gets rewarded with higher points for a higher grade.
And the teacher gets $50 per student for students that pass.
PAUL PETERSON: Well does that have any effect on your AP--
JEB BUSH: Oh my gosh.
PAUL PETERSON: --enrollment, participation?
JEB BUSH: What a surprise, we've had three digit percentage
increases, particularly in the schools that never had AP classes.
So the prime beneficiaries have been low income students.
And teachers get on average, you know, if they're really all in on this,
they get up to $3,000.
Similarly for career certification.
So rewarding teachers for dealing with the things you want,
which is making sure that students are able to take advanced courses,
and dealing with the shortages as it relates
to effective teachers in low performing schools, teachers
in the STEM-related areas, and market orientation in essence
is what has to be done.
And Florida began that process.
So look, if teachers do a good job, you don't want them to leave the classroom.
You want to reward them, but not for inputs, not
for being there for a long time.
There are some great teachers that have been there 30 years,
but there's also some that aren't that good.
Why not reward people for rising student achievement.
PAUL PETERSON: Is there any way to discourage the ineffective teachers
from remaining in the profession?
That's something that is--
JEB BUSH: Can I be blunt about this?
PAUL PETERSON: Yes.
JEB BUSH: You can fire them.
PAUL PETERSON: No.
JEB BUSH: Yes you can in Florida, and a few other states.
Elimination of tenure was one of the elements that we did.
And for teachers that have been in the classroom,
they have to earn their tenure by evaluations
that show that they're satisfactory or excellent teachers.
There should be no teacher after remediation that cannot deliver rising
student achievement in the classroom, because it's so dangerous for students.
And at the same time there should be--
PAUL PETERSON: So how much remediation do you think is appropriate?
Is it one year--
JEB BUSH: I think it's a year.
PAUL PETERSON: --give them a probation year?
JEB BUSH: I think it probably varies.
But the Florida system is three years of performance data for student learning.
So you're taking an average over three years, which I think is fair.
And then if they are below average, significantly below average,
they can lose their tenure.
And all new teachers have no tenure at all.
So the system needs to move to a professional system
not to a collective bargaining system that's basically a trade union.
Teachers I think are deserving of higher pay.
And we're deserving, families are, and our country
is deserving of rising student achievement.
So take Korea.
Korea pays significantly high teacher salaries.
And they finance it by higher class sizes.
In places in this country we think class size is the determining factor
for student achievement.
No, it's quality teachers.
PAUL PETERSON: So you're saying we could get better teachers and better schools
if we didn't worry too much about having extremely small classes?
JEB BUSH: Class sizes, there's no indication--
I just read your research-- there's no indication that it
yields rising student achievement.
But an effective teacher in front of a student for a multiyear period
delivers.
And that's what we should be doing.
I'm not saying let's just cram students in classes for no purpose.
But wouldn't it be better to pay teachers more for a job well done?
And one of the ways you could do that is not
have these mandated lower class sizes as the norm in many parts of the country,
including Florida.
PAUL PETERSON: But it's hard to imagine that we're
going to have a great educational system without great teachers.
And so these ideas are ideas that we have to do more than just talk about.
We have to do something about them.
JEB BUSH: Yeah, and the people, interestingly,
that oppose this generally are the unions that
represent teachers and other school personnel,
which is a tragedy because, in reality, it's hard to get buy-in from the union
leadership.
But teachers desperately want to be recognized as professionals.
And if they do extraordinary work, they want
to be recognized not just in terms of a pat on the back.
What's wrong with providing them bonuses and higher pay for the job they do?
They have such a critical job.
It is the one thing that matters as it relates
to whether a child is going to learn.
PAUL PETERSON: Well thank you very much governor.
Good to have you with us today.
JEB BUSH: Thanks Paul.