>> James: WELCOME BACK.
OUR FIRST GUEST IS THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES AND PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR
PRESIDENT, THE ONE AND ONLY JOE BIDEN!
HOW ARE YOU, SIR?
DOING WELL?
>> I'M DOING WELL.
A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE HURTING VERY BADLY, BUT WE'RE
DOING WELL.
WE'RE HERE, IN THE BASEMENT OF MY HOME, WHICH IS TURNED INTO A
TELEVISION STUDIO.
I'M NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT.
I GET TO ZOOM AND TALK WITH MY GRANDKIDS AND SON AND DAUGHTER.
SO, YOU KNOW -- >> James: YOU'RE IN YOUR
BASEMENT, I'M IN MY GARAGE.
THIS WAS NEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES WITH WHICH I THOUGHT WE WOULD
EVER MEET.
>> NO.
MINE EITHER.
BUT I'M JUST GLAD I'M NOT IN YOUR CAR BECAUSE I CAN'T SING
WORTH A DAMN.
>> James: WELL MAYBE WE'LL FIND OUT ONE DAY.
WE'LL SEE.
>> OH, NO.
I TELL YOU, MY DAD, WHEN HE WAS A KID USED TO HAVE A BAND, AND
HE PLAYED THE CAR NET AND SAXOPHONE, HE COULD SING AND
DANCE, AND HE SAID, JOEY, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU CAME FROM,
YOU HAVE NO LIP, YOU CAN'T PLAY A READ INSTRUMENT, CAN'T CARRY A
TUNE IN A BARREL, HAVE TWO LEFT FEET, BUT I LOVE YOU ANYWAY.
HE WAS RIGHT BACK THEN.
>> James: MY DAD IS ALSO A CLARINET AND SAXOPHONE PLAYER.
>> IS THAT RIGHT?
>> James: YEAH, BUT I HAVE NO MUSICAL ABILITY WITH ANY
INSTRUMENT EVER.
I REALLY WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS, VICE PRESIDENT,
BECAUSE BACK ON JANUARY 27, YOU WROTE AN OP-ED PIECE IN
"USA TODAY" WHERE YOU SAID I AM CONCERNED WE ARE UNPREPARED FOR
A DANGEROUS EPIDEMIC.
WHAT WAS IT THAT ALARMED YOU ABOUT THIS VIRUS QUITE SO EARLY,
LIKE WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD ABOUT IT?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT ALARMED ME WAS THAT WORD CAME
OUT OF -- THAT THE FIRST CASE IN KOREA -- IN SOUTH KOREA AND THE
UNITED STATES HIT ABOUT THE SAME TIME.
IT WAS CLEAR TO ME FROM WHEN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
TRANSITIONED FROM US TO THEM THAT THEY HAD NO INTEREST IN
TALKING ABOUT PANDEMICS.
WE WARNED THEM ABOUT THEM, WE WERE CONCERNED THERE WOULD BE
FUTURE PANDEMICS, WE HAD SET UP AN OFFICE WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE
TO HAVE A PANDEMIC OFFICE.
THEY JUST DISREGARDED ALL OF IT, AND IT WAS CLEAR TO ME BY THAT
TIME THE PRESIDENT HAD NO SENSE, NO SENSE OF SCIENCE, NO SENSE OF
RESPONSIBILITY.
AND I JUST REALLY --T IT REALLY WORRIED ME THAT HE WAS BOTH
UNQUALIFIED AND INCOMPETENT TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
IT'S NOT ANYTHING HE'S EVER DEALT WITH OR HAD ANY
INCLINATION TO DEAL WITH.
>> James: IF YOU WERE IN OFFICE RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU
HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY AND WHAT WOULD YOU THE BE DOING
DIFFERENTLY RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
THIS PRESIDENT SAYS I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S NOT MY
RESPONSIBILITY.
WELL WHO IN THE HELL IS IT IF IT'S NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES' RESPONSIBILITY?
AND I WOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE AND I WOULD BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT
WE'RE DOING.
LOOK, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FIRST THING I -- AND I SUGGESTED
THIS A WHILE AGO -- WE SHOULD HAVE A SUPPLY COMMANDER, LIKE A
MILITARY PERSON WHO, IN A WAR, HAS CHARGE OF ALL TO HAVE ASSETS
THAT THE MILITARY NEEDS.
WELL, WE HAVE SOLDIERS IN THIS WAR, THEY'RE FIRST RESPONDERS,
THEY'RE DOCTORS, PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE FRONT LINES, THEY'RE
NURSES, THEY'RE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STACKING GROCERY
SHELVES, ALL THESE INCREDIBLE PEOPLE, NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, I ARGUE THAT HE SHOULD USE WHAT THEY CALL THE
CREATE THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT THAT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY
LIKE HE FINALLY DID WITH GENERAL MOTORS, I HAVE THE AUTHORITY
UNDER THIS ACT TO MAKE SURE YOU MAKE VENTILATORS FOR PEOPLE IN
HOSPITALS, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM.
HE SHOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING FOR THE INGREDIENTS NEEDED
FOR TESTING, FOR GLOVES, FOR MASKS, FOR GOWNS, AND I WOULD
HAVE ESTABLISHED -- IF I WERE IN CONGRESS, I WOULD HAVE MOVED TO
ESTABLISH WHAT THEY CALL A PANDEMIC TESTING BOARD, LIKE
F.D.R. DID THE WAR PRODUCTION BOARD, TO MAKE SURE WE GOT ALL
THIS DONE, AN OPEN ENROLLMENT FOR ObamaCare.
PEOPLE ARE SCARED TO DEATH, AND HE'S TRYING TO GET RID OF THE
ONLY HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WE HAVE OUT THERE OTHER THAN MEDICARE,
MEDICAID, AND, I MEAN, FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE.
AND I WOULD COLLECT MORE DATA.
WE HAVE TO COLLECT HARD DATA ON THE DISPROPORTION TO MINORITIES,
AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LATINOS.
I WOULD BE DOING THAT AND MOST ANYONE ELSE WOULD BE DOING THAT.
>> James: WHY DO YOU THINK HE ISN'T?
>> BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
HE DOESN'T WANT ANY RESPONSIBILITY.
I THINK HE'S IN A SITUATION WHERE -- IF YOU LISTEN TO HIS
PRESS BRIEFINGS, WHAT'S HE DO?
IT'S ALL ABOUT HIM.
IT'S NOT ABOUT US OR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
HE TALKS ACT THE GOVERNORS SHOULD THANK HIM FOR WHAT HE'S
DONE.
WELL, WHAT THE HELL DOES HE THINK HIS JOB IS?
PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.
HE INITIALLY SAID THIS WAS GOING TO GO AWAY IN WARM WEATHER.
FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT IN WORLD WAR II SAID, LOOK, THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE -- I'M PARAPHRASING -- CAN HANDING ANYTHING, BUT YOU'VE
GOT TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH, AND HE DOESN'T TELL THEM THE TRUTH.
THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE SHOULD BE DOING.
>> James: YOU MENTIONED HIS PRESS BRIEFINGS THERE.
HOW FRUSTRATING IS IT FOR YOU AS THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE TO BE IN
QUARANTINE IN YOUR BASEMENT ON ZOOM CALLS, WHILE THE PRESIDENT
IS GETTING TO DO THESE -- WE'RE CALLING THEM PRESS BRIEFINGS BUT
OFTENTIMES THEY FEEL LIKE CAMPAIGN RALLIES -- HOW
FRUSTRATING IS IT FOR YOU IN YOUR BASEMENT, WATCHING THE
PRESIDENT DO THIS FOR TWO HOURS EVERY DAY?
>> WELL, THE FRUSTRATION IS HE'S LEAVING SO MANY PEOPLE BEHIND.
LOOK AT ALL THE FIRST RESPONDERS, LOOK AT ALL THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING THEMSELVES IN HARM'S WAY, I MEAN
LITERALLY, THEY'RE RISKING THEIR LIVES AND SOME ARE LOSING THEIR
LIVES.
YOU HAVE A SON-IN-LAW, MY DAUGHTER'S HUSBAND IS A SURGEON
UP IN PHILADELPHIA, HE TALKS ABOUT HOW NURSES COME IN AND,
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE AFRAID TO GO HOME, THEY DON'T WANT TO
COMMUNICATE ANY VIRUS THAT THEY MAY HAVE.
THEY TALK ABOUT THE DOCS WHO ARE GOING IN AND DYING IN OTHER
PARTS OF THE -- I MEAN, WHAT I FOCUS ON IS LOOK AT THE DAMAGE
BEING DONE TO SO MANY FAMILIES THAT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE DONE IF
WE HAD JUST TAKEN ACTION AND PREPARED, OR EVEN IF HE DIDN'T
KNOW HOW TO PREPARE, IF, ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR TO HIM, IF HE
STOPPED SLOW-MOTION EVERYTHING -- EVERYTHING WITH
HIM IS SLOW MOTION, NOTHING IS WE'VE GOT TO MOVE QUICKLY,
QUICKLY PROVIDE ALL THIS -- ALL THIS GEAR FOR PEOPLE, THE
TESTING MATERIALS.
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MUCH WE COULD DO TO CHANGE THIS, AND WHAT I
GET FRUSTRATED ABOUT IS WHEN I LOOK AT HIM UP THERE GOING
THROUGH HIS ANTICS ABOUT HIM, IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT HIM, IS WHAT
ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING HURT AND SOME WHO ARE DYING.
I REALLY MEAN IT.
>> James: NOW, THERE IS A FEELING SOUTHERN STATES --
GEORGIA,TONTOP, SOUTH CAROLINA -- TENNESSEE,
SOUTH CAROLINA -- HAVE ANNOUNCED PLANS TO EASE SHELTERING IN
PLACE.
FEELS LIKE AERIES ARIC.
WOULD -- FEELS LIKE A RISK.
WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
DO YOU THINK IT'S A RISK TO START EASING THESE SHELTER IN
PLACES?
>> LOOK, WE HAD A FALSE CHOICE BEING MADE BETWEEN THE PUBLIC
HEALTH AND ECONOMY, IT'S A FALSE CHOICE.
NUMBER ONE, EVEN BY HIS OWN PEOPLE, WHEN HE SET OUT HIS
GUIDELINES, WE HAVE TO GET THE NUMBER OF NEW CASES DOWN
SIGNIFICANTLY, AND WE HAVE TO CONTINUE SOCIAL DISTANCING, AND
WE HAVE TO IMPLEMENT HIS POWER TO GET ALL THIS MATERIAL THAT WE
NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS AND TO HAVE A SUPPLY COMMANDER.
YOU KNOW, WE NEED WIDESPREAD, AVAILABLE TESTING.
WE DON'T HAVE THE ELEMENTS TO DO THAT.
IT'S WITHIN HIS POWER TO INSIST THAT IT BE TONE.
WE HAVE TO ENSURE HOSPITALS ARE READY IF THERE'S A FLAREUP
AGAIN, AND MAKING SURE THEY NOT ONLY HAVE WHAT THEY NEED FOR
NOW, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF IT FLARES UP AGAIN?
ARE THERE ENOUGH P.P.E.s AND MATERIAL TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE
GOING TO BE SAFE?
>> James: YEAH.
I MEAN, WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO THIS.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SWABS.
WHY IN GOD'S NAME ARE WE SHORT ON SWABS IF HE HAS THE POWER TO
TURN AND SAY I NEED YOU TO MAKE ME 50 MILLION SWABS.
HE HAS THE AUTHORITY UNDER THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT TO GO TO
THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE THAT CAPACITY.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH DOING THAT?
WHAT IS HE WORRIED ABOUT?
HE HAS THE POWER.
HE SAYS HE'S A WARTIME COMMANDER.
ACT LIKE A WARTIME COMMANDER.
GIVE YOUR TROOPS, THE DOCTORS, THE NURSES, THE FIRST
RESPONDERS, THE HOSPITALS, GIVE THEM THE AMMUNITION THEY NEED TO
DEAL WITH THIS, NOT ONLY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, BUT TO END
THIS, TO MOVE US A PLACE WHERE WE CAN, IN FACT, OPEN UP AND
OPEN UP SAFELY.
THERE'S NO EXCUSE, IN MY VIEW.
>> James: PEOPLE EVERYWHERE ARE TERRIFIED AT THE MOMENT,
PEOPLE ARE LOSING JOBS AND WORRIED ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING
TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO ARE FEELING SCARED
AND THEY'RE FEELING NERVOUS AND THEY'RE FEELING ANXIOUS AT THE
MOMENT?
>> LOOK, I'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SOUL OF AMERICA, WHEN I RAN FOR
OFFICE, AND WE'RE NOW SEEING, EVERY DAY, THAT SOUL OF
AMERICA -- NURSES, DOCTORS, FIREFIGHTERS, POLICE OFFICERS,
TEACHERS -- THESE ARE REAL HEROES, AND THE PRESIDENT -- BUT
WITH THE PRESIDENT, IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT HIM.
IT'S NOT ABOUT HIM.
IT'S ABOUT US.
IT'S ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.
IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE GREAT THINGS FOR US.
THINK OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT YOU COULD SAY THANK YOU TO AND, YOU
KNOW, I'M GOING TO SOUND LIKE THE UGLY AMERICAN HERE, BUT I'M
SO PROUD OF THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY IS STANDING UP, PEOPLE ARE MAKING REAL
SACRIFICES, THEY'RE REACHING OUT TO THEIR FRIENDS AND PEOPLE THEY
DON'T EVEN KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE COP OR SINGLE FIRST RESPONDER OR
FIREFIGHTER THAT WHEN THERE'S A CRASH IN AN AUTOMOBILE DOESN'T
JUST GO IN AND TRY TO PULL THE PERSON OUT AND RESCUE THEM,
PERIOD OR PUT THEM IN THE BACK OF AN AMBULANCE AND GET THEM TO
A HOSPITAL, WHATEVER THE EMERGENCY IS, WITHOUT WORRYING
ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE BLACK, WHITE, RICH OR POOR, THEY'RE
JUST IN TROUBLE AND THEY KNOW THEY'RE RISKING THEIR LIVES
DOING IT.
BUT THINK OF ALL THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ACTS OF BRAVERY AND
DECENCY GOING ON?
WE SHOULD CELEBRATE THESE PEOPLE.
BY THE WAY, WHEN THIS IS OVER, WE BETTER DAMN WELL NOT FORGET
THEM, BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THIS AND THE WAY TRUMP HAS
HANDLED THIS IS WE'RE TAKING THE BLINDERS OFF.
ALL OF A SUDDEN WE REALIZE THERE ARE A LOT OF INCREDIBLE PEOPLE
OUT THERE MAKING SIX, SEVEN BUCKS AN HOUR MAKING SURE WE
CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO EAT, HAVE ELECTRICITY, WE CONTINUE TO BE
ABLE TO HAVE OUR WAY OF, EVEN WHEN WE'RE IN QUARANTINE, THAT
WE'RE ABLE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.
I'M SORRY, BUT I JUST THINK -- THIS FRUSTRATES ME SO MUCH
BECAUSE I'M SO PROUD OF WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE DOING, AND
THE PRESIDENT -- MY IMPRESSION IS HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT A SENSE
OF EMPATHY.
>> James: BUT YOU DO, AND THAT - DIFFERENCES BETWEEN YOU AND THE
CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT EMPATHY, I BELIEVE,
IS AN IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE, AND THERE WILL BE FAMILIES WATCHING
THIS WHO AREN'T SCARED ABOUT NEXT WEEK, THEY'RE SCARED ABOUT
TOMORROW.
THEY'RE SCARED ABOUT THE DAY AFTER THAT.
>> YEAH IS THAT WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM TO CALM THEIR FEARS
NOW?
>> WE'RE GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS.
IT IS REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HARD AND DIFFICULT FOR SOME, AND
FOR SOME IT IS HEART WRENCHING.
SOME HAVE LOST THEIR SON, DAUGHTER, HUSBAND, WIFE, THEIR
MOM OR THEIR DAD, AND I JUST KNOW THAT -- IN A DIFFERENT
CIRCUMSTANCE, I WAS GOING THROUGH SIMILAR LOSSES, THE
PEOPLE WHO MADE THE DIFFERENCE TO ME WERE PEOPLE WHO I KNEW HAD
GONE THROUGH IT BUT WERE TELLING ME, IT WILL COME BACK.
THEY'RE GOING TO REMAIN PART OF YOUR SOUL, THEY'RE IN YOU.
YOU WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE -- YOU MUST HAVE PURPOSE -- PURPOSE TO
MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY, TO LEAN ON ONE
ANOTHER.
I MEAN, LOOK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SAYING FAITH SEES BEST IN THE
DARK.
IT'S A REALLY DARK TIME NOW FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, SO MANY PEOPLE,
AND JUST KNOWING, KNOWING, KNOWING THAT WE CAN GET THROUGH
THIS, WE WILL GET THROUGH IT, THERE WILL BE SIGNIFICANT PAIN,
BUT WE WILL COME OUT THE OTHER END, AND IT WILL BE WHOLE AGAIN.
AND I JUST THINK THAT TO THINK ABOUT ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
GONE THROUGH SO DAMN MUCH AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T
LOST ANYBODY BUT THEY'RE WONDERING WHETHER THEY CAN HANG
ON AT THE END OF THE DAY FINANCIALLY, WHETHER THEY CAN
HANG ON TO THEIR HOME, ALL THOSE FOLKS WHO DID WHAT MY DAD DID UP
THE LONGEST WALK UP A SHORTO FLIGHT OF STAIRS IN SCRANTON TO
SAY YOU CAN'T GO BACK TO SCHOOL, DADDY LOST HIS JOB, WE HAVE TO
MOVE, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY.
WE HAVE TO REBUILD, UNDERSTANDING THE PAIN THESE
PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH, BUT ALSO THE STRENGTH THEY HAVE
DEMONSTRATED.
THAT'S WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.
THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SINGLE SOLITAIRE TIME WHEN WE FACED A
CRISIS THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE FAILED TO STEP UP.
WE'LL GET THROUGH THIS, FOLKS, I PROMISE YOU.
AMERICANS HAVE NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LET THEIR COUNTRY DOWN
IN A CRISIS, AND WE'RE GOING TO BACK YOU.
YOU ARE THE REASON WE'RE WHO WE ARE.
I LIKELY BELIEVE THAT.
>> James: THAT'S INCREDIBLY COMFORTING TO HEAR.
WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE FROM VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN RIGHT
AFTER THIS.