- You wish I wouldn't have left?
- Yeah.
A little bit. I don't know.
It was--
Like it was enabling me, and it felt like
you did that because you gave up.
That was hard.
- Fair enough.
It felt like abandonment?
- A little, yeah.
You have to answer now, you have to cry.
- To see I wished I never shared?
- Yeah.
- I wish we never shared active addiction.
- Oh okay, yeah.
- Right? I wish--
I haven't said that, even though I wish
that didn't happen, I'm grateful for it.
It does--I mean, you are who you are as a
result of what you went through, right?
So, I get to see the woman you're becoming
and that's an amazing
opportunity, but
I wish we didn't have to share addiction.
- Yeah.
- What's the hardest--
What's the hardest thing about being my daughter
that I'm not aware of?
- Your stubbornness!
- Me?! - Yeah, because I'm stubborn,
so we just like, butt heads sometimes.
And like, the character defects I have,
you have,
and like seeing that mirrored back at me
sometimes is just frustrating,
because I don't feel like I have a right
to be mad at you for it because I also do it.
So that's hard.
Well, how would you answer?
- What's the hardest thing about being your daughter?
- About being my dad, yeah!
- It's the similarities, right? It's--
Actually...
feeling responsible,
or yeah, feeling responsible
for what you had to go through
as a, for the last 10 years.
- Yeah.
- Feeling that I didn't stop it in time.
That's probably the hardest thing about
being a parent, I think is
taking that and feeling that ownership and responsibility for
the flaws, if you will.
- Right.
Umm, what is the most challenging part
about being my father?
- You said earlier you're stubborn.
- Mm-hm!
- Probably the hardest part
is I know you feel things,
and you don't let them out,
and you cover them up.
- Like feel what?
- Emotions.
Hardest part is your stubbornness,
I want you to
believe in God, I want you--
I wanted you to believe that recovery was possible,
and then, and then...
that stone-face comes over you and it's...
- When I like turtle into myself?
- It's exactly what to describe it.
And it's like I just want to open your
brain up or your mind up to
explore the possibilities.
I would suggest that's the hardest part.
- Yeah. I think that's hard for me because like,
once I've already decided
that I'm against something or
that I don't believe in something,
like it's hard to unlock that door.
And so I'm like, "Hey, there's no God. That's it."
- Right.
- I just, it's hard to
want to believe in something else.
- And that's the hard part, right?
It's like the teeter-totter.
- Yeah.
- just try, just try it,
and that's all I really want you to do is just try things, right,
and so when I--
when I feel that you...
you don't get to experience something not because
you're afraid to try.
- Yeah.
I'm more afraid you're going to miss out on so much in life.
- But I did the teeter-totter!
- You did the teeter-totter!
It's a big deal.
My question, right?
- Yes!
- What are you hesitant to tell me?
- Umm.
I think...
I'm hesitant to tell you how much
my... the thoughts,
my addictive thoughts still consume me.
Um, like even
I was thinking about if I'm going to be able
to watch this back when it comes out.
And I don't think I'll be able to.
Just... like people hate the sound of their own voice,
I know if I watch this back,
my first reaction's gonna be like,
"Why does my face look like that?"
and, "How come no one told me?"
Like it just, I think it would be
self-destructive for me to
to watch it, just because
like physical insecurity would
be all I think about.
Yeah, so just how intrusive
those thoughts still are.
- Fair enough.
- Is there anything you're hesitant to tell me?
- Lots!
- Okay! By all means!
- I'm hesitant to tell you when I think,
or I think uhh...
your obsession is still wild and crazy and
so prevalent in your life today,
and I'm afraid to
tip you back into active addiction,
- Right. - And it's a...
groundless fear I believe, but
it's still a fear I have.
- Right. Okay.
- What is the pain in me you wish you could heal?
- Did all right, the same, it's...
the shame that I see
when we look at our past, right?
to let you know that that's okay,
that you don't have to be ashamed.
You don't have to be guilty,
that's just stuff that happened,
and to be able to let that go and move forward.
Again I know how hard that is.
It's like an anchor and a weight.
- Yeah.
-But I also, it's like
the teeter-totter again, I know that once you let that go,
like the whole world opens up,
and it becomes an amazing place, and I'm
afraid that you don't see that yet.
What have you learned from my recovery?
- Humility.
To ask for help even when it's really hard.
And to help others do the same,
like if I see
someone struggling, to call them out
on it, in a really loving and
gentle way, to just like offer up--
because I'm still really selfish--
just to offer up my time to someone.
Like if you, if someone were to ask me,
"Do you want to go help this person,
or do you want to isolate and sit on the couch by yourself?"
Iwant to isolate and sit on the couch by myself!
But I know that if I do the thing,
if I help the person,
I'm going to feel a lot better about myself
afterwards than if I just
sat around isolating.
- So because you see that or you hear that from me?
- Both. - Okay.
- Like you tell people
or you suggest to people to
be of service,
but then you do it.
- Like you're of service to so many people.
And like, I hear it when they talk about you,
whenever people talk about you to me,
I feel so proud!
- Nice!
- What is your greatest fear,
and how can I help you face it?
- "I don't have any" is the wrong answer?
- Yes. Yeah.
- My biggest fear,
probably my one reservation is still
having to bury a child.
- Yeah.
- And uh...
It's still there, it's still prevalent, it's...
I believe it's natural, but...
it's the one fear that I don't think I can get out of.
- When you think about that, is it always me?
Not my sisters?
- It's you first. - Yeah.
- Yeah, it's you first for sure.
- Most likely to die.
- Most likely walking on the edge of a razor blade.
- Yeah! Yeah.
- But it's the same for all three, yeah?
- Okay.
- If this were to be our last conversation,
what's something you'd never want me to forget?
- I think just how proud I am
to be your daughter.
Yeah, I don't think
kids say that to their parents a lot,
like how proud they are of their parents,
but I'm like super proud of you.
Like how much you've grown,
you used to be kind of
awful to be around at times.
Your temper was just
You say I wear my heart on my sleeve, you wear your temper
on your sleeve,
like the slightest thing and you'd just be
unreasonably angry.
And now like I can still see the anger bubble up sometimes,
and if I just don't acknowledge it,
usually you check yourself and it goes away.
Yeah, and you're just so much more open
than you used to be.
Yeah so just I'm really proud of you, and I love you.
- Thank you.
- What do you think life is teaching me right now?
- I think you're being taught that
that you're okay.
It's okay to be who you are.
- Some days, yeah.
- And the world doesn't hate you,
and the world's not against you.
That the world's there for you to explore and be part of,
be part of the human race, I think.
I see that, that you have a voice,
and I see you start to use it,
and that see you interact with other people.
And people don't reject you, and that's,
it's beautiful to watch.
I think that's alright.
Yeah?
If you could change one thing from my past,
what would that be, and why?
Can't use the anger thing again. - I, no, I...
would make it so that
you got clean before your dad died
and like got to make amends to him.
When you
talk about him, I like still
hear how much pain.
And like we talked about shame earlier,
how much guilt you still have about that.
I would change that so you had that.
that you got to make, um that--
sorry I swallowed my tears,
and then they got stuck.
Um, you got to make that amend to him.
When were you the proudest of me?
- There's a few.
I mean there's the graduation, there's
there's these things.
I think uh,
would taking a key tag make any sense whatsoever?
- Mm-hm!
I think that
the white key tag probably made
me the most proud of you
of all. There's a lot of times that I am.
It's as simple as applying, as
taking on two jobs.
- Yeah.
- Getting rid of one job.
The courage it took
- To say no.
- To actually, to say no.
The courage it takes to deal with with me.
But probably the white tag.
- Now me.
Three proud moments for you.
I think...
the first time you held a grandchild, I felt really proud.
Like of just how vulnerable
you were, and how nurturing, and
compassionate, and just like that shift,
like that you see in your brother
when he holds his ground?
That makes me really proud.
Like that you're able
to be that soft,
and like still know that you're a man.
See? Even like your reaction to it was,
"I'm not soft!"
Sooo... like that that you're able to be both
in different moments.
Yeah. Yeah I think that's it.
- Fair enough. - I'm proud of you all the time though.
- What does my love feel like?
- What a weird question.
I'm gonna cry. Sometimes,
I feel guilty that you love me so much,
because I know that when I'm in pain,
you're in pain.
Like, I think it's hard for you to disconnect
from my pain sometimes,
and to not take it on,
and to not try and fix it,
because you love me.
That feels like bad, and
I feel guilty for how much you love me.
That's what it feels like,
because there's just so much.
And I feel like we're so connected.
And sometimes like I try
not to be sad or angry,
because I don't want you to take it on.
or feel like you have to fix it,
or make it go away.
But it's also just nice, to be loved and
cared about, like...
you know, it's nice.
- Nice.
- What does my love feel like?
- It's a tough one, because you verbalize
how guilty you feel,
it's hard to to feel your love.
Right? Because it feels like it's
filtered.
You're thinking, I believe it's a rejection thing,
I believe that you're so afraid
of being rejected that you don't,
your outward expressions of love are
are so filtered, so
kept inside. - Right.
- But there's times when you do things that
are indescribable. It's...
rewarding.
In an instance, you can make all, everything
anger, fears, all the things,
the negative feelings, if it were,
go away in an instance by
one of the expressions of love, which is just
doing, making coffee. Little things like that.
It makes every, all the pain go away.
A father's love, it's an amazing feeling
Is there anything else you want to ask me?
- Nope. I'm done with the feels.
- You don't want to feel anymore?
- No, I'm good for today. I'm tapped out.
- Right on!