A senior
Russian general fired
for speaking out against
Putin's war.
OUTFRONT tonight,
obtaining remarkable
audio of a Russian general
in command of forces
in southern Ukraine
right along that crucial front line
near Zap Riga.
The general says
he was relieved of duty, fired
because he is now
telling the truth about what's
really happening on
those front lines.
Here is General Ivan Popov.
In a tape
meant for the Russian public
Yeah, well, it was
I had no right to lie.
Therefore,
I outlined
all the problematic issues
that exist today
in the Army in terms of combat
work and support.
I called a spade a spade.
I drew attention
to the most important
tragedy of modern warfare.
This is the lack of counter
battery combat,
the absence of artillery,
reconnaissance stations,
and the mass deaths
and injuries of our brothers
from enemy artillery.
I also raised a number
of other problems
and express it all
at the highest level,
frankly, and extremely harshly.
In return,
the senior commanders
apparently felt
some kind of threat in me
and quickly and one lt day
concocted an order.
The Minister of Defense signed
the order and got rid of me.
Just to give some perspective here.
This is a general.
General public is
no ordinary military commander.
Right.
He is commanding
all of those troops in the south
is said to be popular
with his troops.
He tells them it's an honor
to stand with them.
He vows to do everything
he can to make it easier
for them to fight
and to come back alive.
And then he continued in this audio
to accuse Russian leaders
all the way to the top
Russian leaders
of betraying the military
Excuse me, sir, would you come under
as many commanders
of divisional regiments said to do,
the servicemen of the armed
forces of Ukraine
could not break
through our army from the front.
Our senior commander
hit us from the rear treacherously
and virtually decapitating the army
at the most
difficult and tense moment
of the
calling higher command.
His superiors, traitors,
accusing them of violating
decapitating their own troops.
It is a stunning thing to see
because the reality is General Popov
and others
know what the price could be.
He could be out of a job, sir.
He's out of a job. He's fired.
But you know what?
It could be a lot worse.
Things could be a lot worse for him
for speaking the truth.
We don't know.
It can be not ignored
that at least one senior
Russian military
official, General Sergei Servian,
who was an ally of the give
any Prigozhin, the Wagner boss.
Right.
Who led the armed rebellion
against Putin.
Well, general service
hasn't been seen
since the attempted coup.
And a Russian lawmaker today said
serving and is, quote,
taking arrest.
General Wesley
Clark, the former NATO's supreme
allied commander,
along with Roman Brannan,
a Russian journalist
and the founder and editor
in chief
of the investigative journalism
site Project,
which has been targeted
by the Russian government
and is funded by Putin critic
Mikhail Khodorkovsky,
who was imprisoned for a decade.
Thanks very much to both of you.
General Clark,
let me just start with this
major development tonight.
Right.
We've obtained these tapes
of this high profile Russian general
in command of the forces
in southern Ukraine. Right.
Which is
really the front of the front line
in the counter-offensive right now,
fired
for speaking out
against Putin's war.
He's doing so aggressively
now knowing that the cost could be
death, right? Possibly.
Who knows? What does this tell you?
Tells me the Russian military
is under a lot of stress.
And and
that's a good thing for the West.
It's a good thing for Ukraine.
And it's a good thing
for the United States.
I don't have any sympathy
for the Russian chain of command
or the generals.
They're in a war of aggression.
There's a lot of innocent people
that have been killed in Ukraine.
It's a humanitarian disaster
for the Ukrainians.
And this general is
he's not complaining about that.
He's simply complaining
that he can't kill more people.
So be gone. Be gone.
It's a good thing.
And let's
get rid of the rest of them.
And it's a good point
you point out, right?
It's not as if he's
standing up on moral, moral grounds
or anything like that.
He's standing up
because they're not supporting him
in the the goals of the war.
Not because he questions
those goals themselves
in Roman on this front.
You do have some new reporting
on Yevgeny Prigozhin,
as I mentioned, general serving
and hasn't been seen
since the coup
Prigozhin hasn't been seen
since the failed coup two
and a half weeks ago.
What more can you tell us
Oh, yeah.
As for precaution.
We don't know for sure. It's his.
His location is still unknown, but
we have a lot of indications
that he's still inside Russia,
most probably in Saint Petersburg,
his native city, where he has a
lot of real estate assets.
So he definitely has some place
to leave.
But what we did,
we produce
kind of a
psychological portrait of Mr.
because we try
to answer the question
what kind of person he is
and how his personality
could influence
the mutiny
that he started on June 24th
And we also studied in detail
the history of his relationship
with with Putin.
And the picture looks very gloomy.
Prigozhin is a real sadist.
A man
really and truly obsessed
with cruelty,
unimportant physical,
verbal cruelty.
For example, just a short example.
You must understand
that the precautions office
in Saint Petersburg,
in a very visible place,
there was a photograph
of the Cigaret
heads of African rebels
who were killed by Wagner Group,
presumably in the Central
African Republic.
Just imagine
just a photograph of the house.
We also found a lot of evidence
of how Prigozhin personally
beat his employees or Gates orders
for cruel banishment
of ordinary people,
including some Russian opposition
leaders of their relatives.
So it's also clear that Prigozhin
has been personally associated
with Putin for a very long time,
at least since 1995
They know each other
so.
And the love, but not the least.
Yes. All right.
Yes. No, no.
I'm saying, you know.
General,
what do you make of this sort of
as they're trying to piece together
the portrait of the man
still not knowing where he is,
but finding more and more things
about him.
For example,
what Roman's reporting,
the pictures that he had of people
beheaded in Africa
in Wagner's efforts there
We don't
really know
what happened with the alleged coup.
80% chance maybe it was real.
Putin's used it
to get rid of some people.
Who were perhaps
dissenting or disloyal to him.
He still needs Prigozhin.
Maybe precautions are just that
he puts them in Belarus.
Maybe Prigozhin
takes command of Bella
Russian forces.
It blends with Wagner
Group, opens
a northern front,
maybe for Goshen,
goes back to Africa.
I think all
this is a sort of being worked out.
Maybe.
Maybe this is a way
of getting at Lukashenko,
giving Lukashenko
a pat on the back
for stopping the coup.
Here,
you take Prigozhin and Prigozhin
works for Putin underneath.
We just don't know what this is.
But remember,
Putin
is a trained intelligence agent.
He is not a Western
political leader.
He operates on schemes.
He has dish. He uses Moscow.
So so
you can't
assume that straightforward.
We're all saying
he's weaker now,
but that's the consensus
of Western opinion.
But actually,
he's used this
to tighten up his grip.
So so we've got to be careful
in transposing our perceptions
on what's happening
really inside Russia.
Yes, there's war going
on, which is determined to weaken
he doesn't care how he wins.
You don't know
what's going to happen with Ocean
completely.
It's certainly a crucial point.
And Roman,
in terms of promotion,
and state of mind,
you have some reporting
that we haven't
been able
to verify here at CNN,
but about what may be involved here
in terms of his physical situation
and in his decision
for the rebellion and beyond.
Yeah, we also learned that well,
according to two sources,
at least the two sources
close to Prigozhin
some time
ago, Prigozhin was being treated
for abdominal cancer.
And one of the sources told us that
probably
the situation
or his
condition influence
the fact that he started the mutiny
yeah.
He was like, you know,
he was out of control.
At some point.
They said
All right.
Well, Roman,
thank you very much
for sharing your latest
reporting with us.
And General Clark, as always,
thank you for your perspective.