Where was this meeting?
What was it about?
This meeting was back
in the summer of 2021
at Trump's Bedminster Golf Club,
and among the people in attendance
were several Trump aides
and two people
working on an autobiography
of Mark Meadows.
Now, Mark
Meadows was not in attendance
at this meeting,
but during this time,
Trump was in the habit
of having his aides
record any conversations
with journalists, writers
or people working on books.
Now, sources
tell us that on this tape, Trump
says that he has a classified
Pentagon document
describing a possible attack on Iran.
We're also told that you can hear
people rustling.
It appears that he might be waving
something around,
though, is unclear
if he's weaving this document
that he's referring to
or if he's waving something out.
Now, perhaps more importantly
for investigators on this recording,
you can hear Trump suggests
that he would like to share
this information with the people
he's speaking with,
but he acknowledges
that there are limits
to his power
to declassify post-presidency.
And as one source told me,
that is a real problem.
That's a real problem
because it undercuts his entire argument.
Caitlin, what are investigators doing
now that they have this recording?
Well, Jake,
they're building up
an investigation around it.
So they have this audio recording
they were able to get it.
And that is a
very crucial piece of evidence
that we're told is quite important.
Many people have said
it's very important
in this investigation at this stage.
We do know that they have also brought
in people to talk to about this document
and also about the recording itself,
about this meeting at Bedminster.
One of those people
we saw going into the grand jury recently
and were able to confirm that
that person
was in the meeting
at Bedminster
that we're talking about here.
But I should be very clear,
we have not heard
what this audio recording is.
It is something
that the Justice Department
has they clearly have heard,
and it's quite substantial for him.
What we've been able to do
is reconstruct what we can understand
about what Donald Trump is saying there,
or at least
implying when he's holding up a paper
and shaking it around.
And Paul,
just spell it out
as clearly as you can for us,
why this is such an important
potentially
and such an important piece of evidence
as seen through the lens
of the classified
documents investigation.
Well, the former president
and his attorneys
have given varying at times
conflicting explanations
for why
he was not intentionally retaining
classified materials.
One of the explanations
he gave at the town hall.
Let's take a listen to what he said
No, I don't have anything.
I have no classified documents.
And by the way,
they become automatically declassified
when I took them
So they're you saying it was automatic?
His allies have also suggested
that he had a standing
declassification order.
He also told Fox News
that he declassified things with his mind
but his lawyer has told Congress
that, in fact,
it's classified materials
because it's very chaotic
at the end of it administration.
And they didn't realize
that they were there.
But what he is heard
saying on this recording undercuts
all of those explanations.
And Caitlin,
why was Donald Trump
so eager to talk about this document?
This alleged document
about an attack on Iran?
Well, Jake, at this point in time,
Donald Trump was quite angry
because there were a lot of books
coming out
after his presidency
about what happened
in the last days of his presidency.
And right at this
July meeting, right
before it,
Susan Glasser at The New Yorker
had published a story
that said that Trump's
joint chiefs of the chairman
of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley,
had basically argued to Trump
that he could not bomb Iran.
He wanted to bomb Iran.
And so in this circumstance, Donald Trump
is trying to tell Milley
or trying to tell the people
that are in the room
that he has a document
that would undercut Milley
that there is something
that would discredit
Miller's idea
that he was trying to talk
Trump out of bombing Iran.
And so in his book,
Mark Meadows,
who was not in the meeting,
but there were two people
working on Meadows book for him
in this meeting.
Meadows writes
about exactly
what Trump was recalling at this meeting.
He says a four page
Trump recalled a four page report
typed up by Mark Milley himself.
It contained the general's own plan
to attack Iran,
deploying massive numbers of troops
and so the Justice Department
is looking into
what happened
around that document itself.
This document with Mark Milley,
that may be the classified document
that they're trying to trace,
as well as what happened in this meeting
is Donald Trump's acknowledging
he couldn't he hadn't declassified it
and that he couldn't after the president.
So in the world, according to Trump,
this is a document from Milley that shows
that Milley
was the one that wanted to attack
Iran, not him.
And that disproves a claim that was made
in the Susan Glasser article,
or at least some sort of plan
from the Pentagon.
And this is how you would go
about a talk.
Okay. Interesting.
Caitlin and Paula Reed, stick around.
I want to bring in CNN chief
legal analyst and former
federal prosecutor Laura Coates.
As well as CNN senior legal
analyst and Lee Hornack, who's a former
assistant U.S. attorney.
Laura, how significant
could this recording be to you think?
It's extraordinarily so.
An excellent
reporting, ladies,
on this very important matter,
because what is the question
that everyone wants answered?
What did he know and when did he know it?
The idea of did he
and was he aware that he was not able
to retain classified documents?
Well, you can check that off the list
for a variety of reasons.
Did he know
that there was
a declassification procedure?
Of course he did.
Did intend to do so and retain it,
even though he was aware
that the NRE had a narrative
that the untried
an era actually wanted it back?
Absolutely.
And so all you have
now is
the investigation
trying to prove the thing
that you normally allude to.
Somebody is intent.
You have intent.
If this is reporting its true intent,
that this actually did happen
for Jack Smith and his team.
You have an otherwise clear
cut case document in someone's possession
ought to be returned was their intent.
This suggests
that there was it's a very streamlined
prosecutorial proof model.
And Ellie, sources
say that prosecutors have asked
witnesses about this
recording and asked them about this.
This document on Iran
in front of the grand jury,
how does this piece of evidence fit into
what ever larger
case is being built here?
Well, Jake, this is a very
big deal for prosecutors.
And I think a very big problem
for Donald Trump and his team
for a couple of reasons.
First of all, prosecutors love tapes
because if you have a subject on tape,
that's his own words.
That's his own voice.
The defense can't say,
well, some witnesses
sort of fudging the truth.
It also establishes
some basic things
the prosecutors need to establish.
One knowledge
Trump knew
he had these documents to intent
he was going to use them
or potentially refer to them
as it suited his strategic needs.
That goes to his intent.
And third,
this whole claim that he declassified
Well, here he is
in 20, 21 after
he's left office
saying these are still classified.
So I can't show you.
So it shows
not only that he didn't declassify,
but that he's been lying about it
in public.
So this is crucial evidence
for prosecutors.
And, Paula,
what's more
important here,
the fact that Trump retained
this classified material,
we know in this instance
it's a document about Iran
or the tape in which
it seems to establish
that he had the document
and he knew he couldn't share it.
Look, it's all problematic.
Mean the fact that he's admitting
that he has
this classified document,
he's retained it, he's
discussing it in a public setting.
The fact that he admits
that there are limitations to his ability
to classify post-presidency.
I mean,
I was expecting some pretty serious court
by some unprecedented
constitutional questions.
I'm sure you guys were looking forward
to that, to
about his powers
post-presidency, things
we've never really contemplated before.
This reporting undercuts all of that.
And he also admits that he knows
he has this document
which gives him
no room to argue
that like President Biden or former Vice
President Mike Pence,
he had no idea
and things just got packed up
inadvertently by a problem.
By the way,
this is the first time,
thanks to your reporting, that we know
at least some part of the substance
of these documents.
Up till now,
we've seen
the photographs of the cover sheets.
There's been a lot made about the fact
that this is just a cover issue
that was out there.
It was actually even inside there.
Now we know the substance,
at least in part of one document
and the severity of it.
And no wonder why
there is conversation
surrounding the unlawful disclosure
of very secretive information,
the potential diplomatic storm
that could actually result
from all of this.
And the idea that he was aware of it,
that he knew the consequences of it
and was offering to look at it
nonetheless and to undercut somebody
of a high ranking authority
in our own government. Shocking.
So the chairman of the Joint Chiefs,
General Mark
Milley, is still the chairman
of the Joint Chiefs.
Do we know if prosecutors have asked him
about this?
Yeah, our reporting team
with Kaitlan Collins as well.
We were able to confirm
that General Milley
has been questioned by investigators.
And we also know that the prosecutors
on this special counsel investigation,
they also have been asking questions
about Donald Trump's
anger around Mark Milley
and also if there are other circumstances
where he may
have wanted to show documents
like this or had documents.
Now, we don't have the answer to
why Donald Trump still had this.
But whenever you look at the course
of what we are revealing here
and what this investigation is doing,
one of the things that prosecutors
really need to nail down
is whether Donald Trump knew
he had this classified document
and if he's talking about Milley
and he's waving around something
and he's referring to a document
he has from Milley,
that's quite important.
Ellie, if you were on Trump's
defense team,
how might you defend this recording?
So that's a tough one, Jake.
I think, first of all,
they're going to want
to see the actual transcript
and the recording itself.
They may try to parse the words.
There may be a creative argument
that, well,
he didn't
legitimately think
he was doing anything wrong
because if so, why would he talk about it
in front of these writers?
These reporters, I said it's creative.
One thing I do want to stress, though,
one important aspect of Paula and Caitlin
and the team's reporting
is that
Trump's own team
made these recordings at his request.
There's really sort of shades of Nixon
there.
And New Jersey is what we call
a one party state, meaning that
as long as one party to the conversation
approved, the recording
then those recordings
are going to be legal
and potentially admissible against him.
And Laura,
reading the tea leaves
of where Jack Smith
is going in his investigation,
it had seemed as though
he was only
possibly only going to go
after the obstruction of justice charges.
But this would suggest
a broader, theoretically broader case.
Intent is really the final puzzle
for peace.
For any prosecutor,
it's the hardest thing to prove
because you can't get into the mind
of the person you're targeting.
But it also makes it a broader case.
You're right away from obstruction.
And now
that the disclosure of information
also about other
more expansive
is this document
that was waved around purportedly.
Do they actually now have it
or is it a part of another trove
that is yet to be uncovered?
It is expanding.