A high stakes visit between
two powerful strategic partners
is being watched
around the world
for the first time
since Russia invaded Ukraine.
China's Xi Jinping is in Moscow meeting
with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Ukraine is, of course,
expected to top the agenda.
Three day trip
with Beijing framing itself
as a peacemaker.
Mr.
Xi says that China will work
with Russia to, in his words,
safeguard the international order.
It is true
that both of our countries
share the same or similar goals,
we have exerted efforts
for the prosperity
of our respective countries.
Clearly, we can cooperate and work
together to achieve our goals
The meeting comes just days
after the International Criminal Court
issued an arrest warrant for Vladimir
Putin on war crimes charges.
Just walk us through what
Xi Jinping at this point needs
from Russia.
Well, Xi Jinping, I mean, by
traveling to Russia
just after securing
this unprecedented
third presidential term,
he's making very clear.
He's sending a message
to the west, to the world
where his priorities lie.
And even though,
you know,
his economic relationship
with the United States
and NATO
is hugely important in terms of dollars,
that's not Xi's priority.
His priority is ideology.
And he and Vladimir Putin share
the belief that the world order
as it has existed for the last 70 years,
you know, insured
by the United States,
is a world order that needs to change.
They believe
that the system of democracy,
the cultural liberalism,
is is a disgrace.
And they want to see the world
aligned more in the way
that their countries are,
where they are controlled very heavily
by the government.
And so
this is
a bigger issue for President
Xi than just Vladimir Putin's,
you know,
war crimes
charges
in the International Criminal Court,
bigger than the war in Ukraine itself.
This is about,
you know, combining the powers of these two nuclear
armed authoritarian superpowers
and using using that combined power
to shape the course of
of the world order for,
you know, for the future.
They both believe that this is their
this is their mission.
And so you know, this meeting,
these three days,
the decisions
that they make,
the conversations
that they have seemed
to be solidifying this,
as they've called it, there
no limits partnership And and you see
Xi Jinping
trying to show China's,
you know, China's force,
not only militarily and economically,
but also
in diplomacy, brokering
that peace deal in the Middle East
recently between Saudi Arabia and Iran
and making sure that that deal,
none of the official documents
would be in English.
This is
this is what she has always
felt is an inevitable
revival and rise of China.
And he does not want the United States
and the West standing in in that way.
Now, an embarrassing defeat in Ukraine
for the West
is not something
that would disappoint Xi Jinping.
So that is why there's growing concern
that he's
considering these arming of lethal,
lethal weapons, ammunition
because we know that
the US believes
that Russia
might not have any serviceable ammunition
before the end of this year.
That's something that China can help them with,
along with microchips
and other other types of weapons.
That could really change the course
for Russian soldiers on the battlefield.
So what happens over
the next few days of discussion, Zain,
is going to have huge
huge ramifications for the war in Ukraine
and beyond.
We'll see what happens.
I'm sure you'll be watching that very,
very closely.
Will Ripley live for us there.
Thank you so much.
It's time now
for the exchange
and a conversation with your son.
She's a senior fellow
and co-director of China
at the Stimson Center,
a Washington think tank.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Just walk us through at this point
why you think
Russia needs China and vice versa.
Thank you very much for having me.
I think the reason why Russia needs
China is this point is quite clear.
Russia has been under severe
international sanctions
since the beginning of the war,
and its economic partners
on the international market
has become increasingly limited
as a source of foreign funding,
especially investment
has also become limited.
China is China.
China is Russia's largest neighbor.
And China also shares its anti-U.S.
agenda with with Russia.
So evidently China has appeared
what emerged as one of the few partners
that Russia comes to rely on
in this precarious condition.
The imports
from the Chinese perspective,
I think the most important
consideration remains to be geopolitics
and about geopolitics.
The Chinese would mean
while the
great power competition
or the strategic competition
with the United States,
no matter what,
and regardless
of the result of the war in Ukraine.
China sees Russia
as a partner,
as a as a partner, as shares
the same vision
about the need
to counter the US hegemony in the world.
So that geopolitical instinct
really dictates China's
behavior at this point.
So does China's
sort of cozying up to Russia.
How much does it
affect China's
relationship with its European
trading partners, do you think?
I think it does affect with China's
relationship with Europe,
not only in terms of trade,
but also in terms of the diplomacy
and also in terms of the political optics
and the European concern
about China
aligning itself
with Russia
and the implications
it would have for the war in Ukraine,
which is why
I think the Chinese are trying
to frame this present China
as a peace broker
instead of a Russia accomplice
through this sort of this trip.
So we saw that China made the proposal
on the peace
settlement of the Ukraine crisis
about a month ago.
And then earlier in March,
China
also facilitated the peace deal
between Iran and Saudi.
So all these are giving the
international community,
I would say, an illusion
that China is now going to emerge
as a great mediator
between Russia and Ukraine,
which I don't think
is the primary goal of this trip.
And I don't think it is
within China's capacity
to mediate the peace for the Ukraine war.
Do you anticipate I mean, obviously,
Zelensky,
I'm sure, would want to speak to Xi
Jinping. Can you.
Do you anticipate
any sort of situation
where the coming days
Xi Jinping
ends up speaking to President Zelensky?
Indeed, I think that's very well
speculated, and that's very possibly
to be
to be happening
after Xi Jinping's trip to Moscow.
And remember,
whether the Chinese are trying to do
is to frame or present China as a broker.
So therefore,
they want to present a case
obviously jumping, conducting
shadow diplomacy
between Russia and Ukraine.
So Xi Jinping meeting was putting first
and then having a virtual phone call
or a real phone call,
whereas with President Zelensky,
it will give China that image
of being the broker
conducting shuttle
diplomacy between the two.
You mentioned that China doesn't
really have the capacity per
se to sort of broker a real peace deal.
But just explain to us how much China's
position on the world
stage has been bolstered
by the sort of position
that it's carving out
for itself in this war.
Look, there are pros and cons.
There are costs to China's position,
and there are also some benefits
to China's position in terms of the cost.
And most importantly,
I was a China understands that
its pro-Russia neutrality is taking great
as doing great damage
to China's relationship with the West
including both
the United States and Europe.
And it also frames China
as a dishonest broker
or dishonest a player
in this whole thing.
When China presented
as peace settlement
proposal on February 24th,
most people are underwhelmed by how empty
and how little substance
the deal actually
or the proposal actually offers.
So that's not necessarily
going to do
China more favor
in terms of his great power diplomacy.
But on the other hand,
I think the Chinese also see benefits
associated with this,
whereas this ambiguity
in terms of the Russian war for Ukraine,
because for a lot of
the Chinese strategists,
if the Chinese don't take a position.
So every country and all parties to
the conflict
will want to gain China's favor.
They will want to gain China
to support their position.
So I think there is also this argument
that the China should remain neutral
or should remain
non-committal in terms of is it
in terms of its position.
Last but not least,
remember, for the Chinese
the most important
foreign policy
consideration is always going
to be the United States.
So when they think
about the Indo-Pacific strategy
and the strategic competition
with the United States,
I think the first question that emerges
is that while U.S.
is no longer distracted in Ukraine,
then how much more attention
and how much more resources U.S.
will be allocating towards China?
And I think that's a real concern.
All right.
Jensen,
the Stimson Center think tank,
thank you so much for being with us.
We appreciate.