JOE." NOW, STEVE IS IN FOR NICOLLE
WALLACE, STARTS RIGHT NOW.
>> HI, EVERYONE.
IT’S 4:00 IN NEW YORK.
I’M STEVE KORNACKI IN FOR
NICOLLE WALLACE.
NICOLLE WALLACE. TODAY, GROWING CONCERN FOR THE
PRESIDENT’S ALLIES HIS FIVE DAYS
AND COUNTING OF RACIAL DIVISIVE
ATTACKS COULD COST TRUMP THE
ELECTION IN 2020 AND CONGRESSMAN
ELIJAH CUMMINGS, THIS AS HIS
AIDES PRIVATELY DISCUSS WHAT
MIGHT HAPPEN IF TRUMP DOESN’T
LET THIS GO.
THE "NEW YORK TIMES" SAID
SEVERAL WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS
PRIVATELY SCOFFED AT THE IDEA IT
WAS STRATEGY RATHER THAN IMPULSE
CONCLUDING ANY BENEFIT HE MIGHT
GET FROM REVVING UP HIS
CONSERVATIVE WHITE BASE COULD BE
OFFSET BY MORE MODERATE VOTERS
IN WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN HE
NEEDS TO WIN A SECOND TERM.
EVEN A FEW REPUBLICANS ARE
SHOWING SIGNS OF DISCOMFORT WITH
TRUMP’S ATTACKS ON CUMMINGS AND
ZANGS THEIRSELVES WITH TRUMP’S
CLAIM CUMMINGS IS THE REAL
RACIST ALTHOUGH MOSTLY AVOIDED
CRITICIZING TRUMP’S COMMENTS
DIRECTLY AND WE HAVE SEEN NO
SIGNS SCHEMISHNESS AMONG HIS
PARTY OR ALARM OF HIS AIDES HAS
A CHANCE TO GET THROUGH TO THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. SEVERAL WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS
WERE UNCERTAIN WHO COULD
INTERVENE WITH HIM OR IF ANYONE
WOULD EVEN DARE TRY.
TRUMP HIMSELF APPEARS TO BE IN
DENIAL OF ANY POTENTIAL
POLITICAL RISKS.
POLITICAL RISKS. >> FAKE NEWS DOES NOT REPORT IT
PROPERLY.
PROPERLY. IF THE NEWS REPORTED IT
PROPERLY, THE RIGHT WAY, LIKE
INSTEAD OF STATEMENT LIKE YOU
JUST MADE, IF THE NEWS REPORTED
IT PROPERLY, OF ALL OF THE
THINGS I’VE DONE FOR
AFRICAN-AMERICANS LIKE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM AND OPPORTUNITY
ZONES, I THINK I’D DO VERY WELL
WITH THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND I
THINK I’M DOING VERY WELL RIGHT
NOW.
NOW. >> THE POLLS SUGGEST THE
PRESIDENT HAS SERIOUS STRUGGLES
ON HIS HANDS WHEN IT COMES TO
APPEALING TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
A BRAND NEW QUINNIPIAC POLL SAY
80% OF BLACK VOTERS THINK THE
PRESIDENT IS A RACIST.
FOR DEMOCRATS GEARING UP FOR THE
SECOND PRIMARY DEBATE BEGINNING
TONIGHT, TRUMP’S GROWING
VULNERABILITY ON RACE MEANS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO MOBILIZE KEY
VOTERS WHO COULD MAKE OR BREAK
THE ELECTION FOR HIM.
AT THE TABLE, BAZLE SPIKAL, AND
A REPORTER FROM THE "WASHINGTON
TIMES," ELI, LET ME START WITH
YOU, THIS REPORTING COMING FROM
INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE FROM
AROUND TRUMP CIRCLE, I THINK
VERY INTERESTING.
VERY INTERESTING. THE FOLKS AROUND TRUMP SENSING
POLITICAL DANGER WITH THIS
ATTACK HE HAS TAKEN ON RACE.
THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS IMMUNE
TO THAT MESSAGE.
IS THAT WHAT’S GOING ON?
>> EVERYBODY WHO WORKS IN THIS
WHITE HOUSE UNDERSTANDS YOU WILL
NOT CONVINCE THE PRESIDENT TO DO
SOMETHING HE DOESN’T WANT TO DO.
NO POINT TRYING TO PERSUADE HIM
TO TAKE A DIFFERENT TACT.
YOU HAVE SEEN THE WHITE HOUSE
TRYING TO CORRECT AROUND THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. HE’S NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE, NOT
GOING TO BACK DOWN ANDENED TO
TALK TODAY ABOUT REPRESENTATIVE
CUMMINGS AND BALTIMORE.
YOU HAVE SEEN A FEW EFFORTS FOR
THE PRESIDENT TO EMPHASIZE
PLACES HE THINKS, LINES THAT
WILL RESONATE NOR STRONGLY WITH
AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
AFRICAN-AMERICANS. TODAY, HE WAS SPEAKING IN
VIRGINIA, 400th ANNIVERSARY OF
JAMESTOWN SETTLEMENT AND WORKED
INTO THAT SPEECH, PREPARED
REMARKS, BUT SEVERAL LINES
CONDEMNING SLAVERY.
CONDEMNING SLAVERY. AND LAST WEEK, A MEETING WITH
PASTORS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS OF
OTHER STATES.
OTHER STATES. ON THE EDGES, TO BE ABLE TO SHOW
THAT THE PRESIDENT -- TO BEAT
BACK AT THESE ALLEGATIONS OF
RACISM BY SAYING, NO, LOOK WHAT
THE PRESIDENT JUST SAID ABOUT
SLAVERY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY
WON’T GET THIS PRESIDENT OFF
THIS SPOT THAT COMES TO
REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS AND
BALTIMORE, IN ITS FOURTH DAY?
>> DOES THE WHITE HOUSE GET HIM
TO SEND THESE TWEETS OUT OR WHAT
HAVE YOU, OR DOES THAT REFLECT
ANY RECOGNITION ON SENSE ON THE
PRESIDENT’S PART THERE WAS MORE
PERIL THAN WHEN HE WAS FIRING
OFF THE TWEETS.
>> Reporter: THE PEOPLE I TALKED
TO THE PRESIDENT BELIEVES THEY
WILL ULTIMATELY HELP HIM AND
ENLIVEN HIS BASE AND WON’T HURT
MUCH WITH THE VOTERS WHO ALREADY
OPPOSE HIM AND THINK THERE’S
MORE-OR-LESS A PUSH.
THEY DON’T WANT THIS TO
NECESSARILY CONTINUE TO
METASTASIZE, THIS RACISM CHARGE.
I THINK THE PRESIDENT WILL SIGN
OFF WHEN PEOPLE COME TO HIM AND
SAY, WE SHOULD TEMPER, HE WILL
SAY OKAY BUT NOT TRYING TO
BOTHER TO GET HIM TO COME OFF
THE ATTACK OF REPRESENTATIVE
CUMMINGS.
CUMMINGS. >> DO YOU THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP
IS A RACIST, WE SHOWED YOU AMONG
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, THE ANSWER IS
OVERWHELMINGLY YES.
OVERWHELMINGLY YES. AMONG ALL AMERICANS, A MAJORITY,
51% SAY, YES, THEY THINK THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
IS A RACIST.
YOU CAN SEE BREAKDOWNS AMONG
WHITE VOTERS AND WE TALK ABOUT
THE DIVIDE, COLLEGE EDUCATED AND
SUBURBANITES AND FOLKS IMPORTANT
TO THE TAKEOVER OF THE WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. THE COLLEGE EDUCATED, YES, 54-43
AND 39% YES FOR NON-COLLEGE
WHITE, 57% NO.
THE PRESIDENT WON NON-COLLEGE
40ERS BY 46 POINTS.
LOPSIDED, THEY’RE SAYING HE’S
NOT RACIST.
NOT RACIST. HIS VICTORY MARGIN IS 20 POINTS.
>> IT DOESN’T GO TO HIS BENEFIT
AND IN PARTICULAR, ATTACKS ON
KHAN AND THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD"
TAPE, THOSE INCIDENTS PUT
DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON HIS POLLS
AND TURNED OFF PEOPLE THAT
WEREN’T INCLINED TO VOTE
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. HE DOESN’T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE
TO TELL HIM NO.
THERE IS A UNIVERSE OF ACTIVISTS
WHO SUPPORT WHATEVER THE
PRESIDENT SAYS AND SAY, THE
PRESIDENT IS RIGHT.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF THEM THAT
MIGRATED TO WEST BALTIMORE,
SAYING, THIS IS A DISTRESSED
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. THERE IS A CONSERVATIVE URBAN
ALLEGATION.
ALLEGATION. THE PRESIDENT ISN’T ADVANCING
IT, NEARLY TWEETING HIS WRATH.
>> IS THERE ANY WAY IF THERE IS
A REPUBLICAN OR CONSERVATIVE OUT
THERE CONCERNED WHERE THE
PRESIDENT IS GOING, IS THERE ANY
WAY TO GET THROUGH TO HIM OR IS
THE ONLY WAY THAT COMES BACK TO
THEM THROUGH HIM, HEY, I WON IN
2016 AND EVERYBODY SAID I WOULD
LOSE AND MAKING EVERY MISTAKE IN
THE WORLD?
THE WORLD? >> THERE IS.
COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM.
ELECTED OFFICIALS IN FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT COME TOGETHER,
CRITICAL MAJORITY, A MASS, COME
OUT AND SAY WE DISAGREE WITH THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. WE DON’T AGREE WITH WHAT HE SAYS
HERE, HURTING OUR SOCIAL FABRIC
AND IT DOES FORCE THE PRESIDENT
TO BACK OFF.
WHEN THERE’S JUST ONE INDIVIDUAL
OR TWO, THEY GET THE UNIVERSE OF
A TWEET AND IT COMES DOWN AROUND
THEIR SHOULDERS.
THEIR SHOULDERS. >> REMEMBER THE KHAN FAMILY IN
2016 AND THOSE INDIVIDUAL
EPISODES, GO BACK IN TIME IT
SEEMS LIKE DONALD TRUMP’S
POLITICAL WORLD WAS COLLAPSING
PLAYING OUT.
PLAYING OUT. YOU HAD A BUNCH IN THE 2016
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. HIS POLLS WOULD TAKE A HIT AND
POLITICAL OBITUARY WRITTEN AND
THEN FADE INTO THE COLLECTIVE
MEMORY AND HE ENDED UP JUST
BARELY WINNING ON ELECTION DAY.
COULD THAT HAPPEN AGAIN HERE?
>> OF COURSE IT COULD HAPPEN
AGAIN.
AGAIN. HE WOULDN’T GET THE MAJORITY OF
THE VOTE BUT OUR ELECTORAL
SYSTEM IS CONFIGURED IN
PRECISELY THIS PERVERSE WAY IT
IS POSSIBLE HE COULD SQUEEZE OUT
ANOTHER FREAK VICTORY.
ALTHOUGH I THINK IT’S
INTERESTING AFTER THIS ELECTION
AND CALAMITY OF ELECTION, THERE
WAS NATIONWIDE RETHINKING, WHAT
HAVE WE MISSED?
THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE
SAYING WE HAVE NOT PROPERLY
GAGED THE ECONOMIC DESPAIR IN
THE HEARTLAND AND ECONOMIC ANGST
SI IN THE COUNTRY.
THAT IS REAL.
TRUMP BELIEVES HE WON BECAUSE OF
RACISM.
RACISM. HE BELIEVES HE WON BECAUSE HE
WAS WILLING TO SAY TERRIBLE
THINGS ABOUT IMMIGRANTS AND
MUSLIMS AND PEOPLE OF COLOR AND
THE ARCHIE BUNKER DEMOGRAPHIC
RESPONDED TO THAT.
HE BELIEVES THAT ABOUT HIS BASE.
HE BELIEVES FAR MORE THAN
HILLARY CLINTON EVER DID, EVEN
WHEN SHE USED THE WORD
"DEPLORABLES," IT’S DONALD TRUMP
WHO TRULY BELIEVES HIS BASE IS
DEPLORABLE.
DEPLORABLE. >> I WANT TO GIVE YOU TWO
CHARTS.
CHARTS. THIS IS THE TURNOUT RATE AMONG
BLACK VOTERS IN FOUR ELECTIONS.
YOU SEE THE TWO ELECTIONS
DEMOCRATS WON, OBAMA, THE
TURNOUT RATE SPIKED, 65, 27%.
FELL IN 2004, KERRY NARROWLY
LOSES AND CLINTON NARROWLY
LOSES.
LOSES. BARACK OBAMA RUNNING DID DO A
TOUCH BETTER OF KERRY AND
CLINTON, 82 THE 90s.
KERRY AND CLINTON INTO THE HIGH
80s.
80s. VERY HIGH SUPPORT FOR OBAMA AND
VERY HIGH TURNOUT, DEMOCRATS
WERE ABLE TO WIN THOSE
ELECTIONS.
ELECTIONS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT TRUMP’S
DOING, THE LOGICAL THING IS THAT
WILL FIRE UP BLACK VOTERS AND
GET THEM TO TURN OUT IN 2008 AND
2012.
2012. WHAT MICHELLE IS POINTING OUT,
IS THIS REALLY DIFFERENT THAN
WHAT DONALD TRUMP WAS DOING IN
2016, WHEN THE BLACK TURNOUT
RATE WAS 59.5%?
WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE NEXT
TIME AROUND?
TIME AROUND? >> HE IS CONFLATING ECONOMIC
NATIONALISM AND ETHNIC
NATIONALISM.
NATIONALISM. THERE ARE SOME WHO DON’T THINK
HE’S RACISM, SINCE THE COMMUNITY
IS MONOLITHIC.
IS MONOLITHIC. THERE ARE MANY THAT DOESN’T LIKE
THE IMMIGRATION REFORM.
WE’VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME.
WHERE IS THE SUPPORT FOR OUR
CONCERNS.
CONCERNS. I KNOW TRUMP’S TEAM SAYS IT’S
NOT IMPULSE, STRATEGY.
THE IMPULSE IS STRATEGY.
WHEN HE’S LASHING OUT AT ELIJAH
CUMMINGS, HE’S SAYING I DON’T
CARE ABOUT SUPPORT FROM THE
CITIES BECAUSE I GET THE SUPPORT
FROM RURAL AMERICA.
INSTEAD OF JUST DOUBLING DOWN ON
HIS BASE HE CAN DIP INTO
COALITIONS AND RIP APART SOME OF
THAT, INCLUDING
THAT, INCLUDING AFRICAN-AMERICAN.
AFRICAN-AMERICAN. I DON’T THINK IT WORKS AT THE
END BECAUSE I BELIEVE WHAT COMES
OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE IS A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SUPPORT
AGAINST HIM INCLUDING THOSE
SUBURBAN VOTERS WHO HAVE GONE
WITH HIM INITIALLY AND I THINK
WILL COME BACK TO THE DEMOCRATIC
FOLD AND FLIP COUNTIES IN
MICHIGAN AND WISCONSIN, EVEN
THOUGH THEY’RE DOING BETTER,
SOME ARE LOOKING A BIT MORE
BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE TONE AND
TENOR OF THIS PRESIDENT IS NOT
WHERE THEY WANT TO GO AND FOR
OTHER COUNTIES, ACTUALLY LOSING
POPULATION AND STILL LOSING
JOBS.
JOBS. THERE IS A SENSE WHAT TRUMP IS
DOING MAY HAVE WORKED IN 2016,
BUT A SLIPPERY SLOPE IN 2020 AND
MAY NOT WIN THE END OF THE DAY.
>> WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE
COMBINED MARGIN ERROR IS 75,000
VOTES IN WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN.
LET ME BRING IT BACK TO YOU.
THE WHOLE TALK IS, IS IT
STRATEGIZE OR IMPULSE, IS
DESCRIBING A WHITE HOUSE
APPARATUS, AS NOAH WAS SAYING, A
REPUBLICAN PARTY APPARATUS,
FORCED TO TAKE OUT ITS PHONES
EVERY MORNING AND SEE IF HE
TWEETED SOMETHING NEW AND
WHATEVER DIRECTION HE DECIDED TO
GO IN AND COME WAKE UP A
COHERENT GRAND PURPOSE
EXPLANATION FOR IT.
IS THAT REALLY THE DYNAMIC GOING
ON RIGHT NOW?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. YOU’RE DESCRIBING REVERSE
ENGINEERING WITH THIS
ADMINISTRATION AND CONGRESS.
THE WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS THAT
WILL SAY THIS ISN’T STRIKE,
THEY’RE SAYING THEY’VE HAD NO
ROLE IN CRAFTING A STRATEGY
BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T
CONSIDER A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS
SOMETIMES WHEN HE ACTS.
HE SOMETIMES STARTS SOMETHING AS
HE DID HERE, SEEING A SEGMENT ON
TELEVISION AND HAVING ALREADY
HAD AN ITCH TO SCRATCH GOING
AFTER CUMMINGS GIVEN THE
OVERSIGHT SUBPOENAS THE LAST
MONTH OR SO AND HE SAW THE
SEGMENT ON TELEVISION AND
STARTED TWEETING AND NOT A LOT
OF CONVERSATION WITH STAFF.
THERE HAS BEEN POLICY OF THIS
AND STRATEGY AND WHICH WAY TO
GO.
GO. GENERALLY, THIS IS A PRESIDENT
WHO ACTS ON INSTINCT AND ASKED
PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK, THE END
OF THE DAY, WHEN HE FEELS
SOMETHING EMOTIONALLY, HE WILL
REACT FROM IT ACCORDINGLY.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT FROM THE START
AND THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN
INFRASTRUCTURE, CAMPAIGN AND
RNC, THEY ARE ALL TAKING THEIR
CUES FROM THIS PRESIDENT AND
FINDING TO COME UP WITH WAYS TO
BUTTRESS HIS MESSAGE ON THE
BACKSIDE.
BACKSIDE. >> MICHELLE.
>> MICHELLE. >> I WANT TO SAY QUICKLY, WHAT
ELI SAID BEFORE, I DON’T KNOW IF
YOU HEARD ME TRY TO SUPPRESS A
LAUGH.
LAUGH. THINK WHAT A DEGRADED STATE THIS
COUNTRY IS IN WHEN HIS AIDES
SAY, NO, HE CAN’T BE RACIST, HE
OPPOSES SLAVERY.
OPPOSES SLAVERY. THAT’S THE BEST THEY CAN DO TO
MAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE ARGUMENT FOR
THIS PRESIDENT HAVING ANY
CONCERN FOR MINORITIES IN THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. IT IS SUCH A FARCE.
WE ALL SIT AROUND HERE AND TALK
ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF STRATEGY
AND IN TERMS OF THE ELECTION.
THAT IS IMPORTANT BUT I THINK IT
IS IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT
A NATIONAL CATASTROPHE IT IS TO
HAVE THIS RANTING LUNATIC WHO
HOLDS SO MANY OF THE PEOPLE AND
SO MANY OF THE CITIES THAT HE
PURPORTS TO LEAD, IN KIND OF
COMPLETE CONTEMPT.
COMPLETE CONTEMPT. >> EVEN WORSE, THERE ARE A LOT
OF VOTERS THAT WILL LISTEN TO
THAT AND SAY, MY GOD, HE’S
RIGHT, HE’S THE NEXT BEST THING
SINCE LINCOLN AND WE HAVE TO