>> Martha: JOINED ME NOW FOR
PART TWO OF MY EXCLUSIVE EXIT
INTERVIEW WITH CONGRESSMAN TREY
GOWDY, WHO IS OPENING UP ABOUT
LIFE BEYOND THE BELTWAY.
WATCH.
>> Martha: AS YOU GET READY TO
MAKE THIS HUGE CHANGE IN YOUR
LIFE AND LEAVE WASHINGTON, ONE
OF THE THINGS YOU WILL BE
REMEMBERED FOR ARE SOME PRETTY
TESTY EXCHANGES YOU HAD WITH
PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM THAT WE ARE
SITTING IN.
ONE OF THEM WAS WITH PETER
STRZOK.
>> YOU WERE SPEAKING ON BEHALF
OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, WERE YOU
CORRECT?
>> I DON'T RECALL WRITING THAT
TEXT.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT TEXT
IN NO WAY SUGGESTED THAT I OR
THE FBI WOULD TAKE ANY ACTION TO
INFLUENCE THE CANDIDACY OF --
>> THAT IS A FANTASTIC ANSWER TO
A QUESTION NOBODY ASKED.
IF YOU WANT TO REPRESENT WHAT
YOU SAID ACCURATELY, I'M HAPPY
TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION BUT I AM
NOT APPRECIATING --
>> I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU
APPRECIATE.
I DON'T APPRECIATE HAVING AN FBI
AGENT WITH AN UNPRECEDENTED
AMOUNT OF ANIMUS WORKING ON A
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN OF 2016.
>> Martha: IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE
YOU LIKED HIM VERY MUCH.
>> YOU ARE A KEEN OBSERVER OF
HUMAN NATURE.
AN FBI AGENT I WORKED WITH, WHEN
I THINK OF THE FBI, I THINK OF
GUYS WHO NEVER, EVER WOULD HAVE
SETTLED ON THE THINGS THAT PETER
STRZOK SAID OR DID.
HE IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE FBI
THAT I WORKED WITH, AND HE IS
NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE FBI THAT
YOU AND I DESERVE.
MY ONLY REAL REGRET IS THAT I
WASN'T TOUGHER ON HIM.
>> Martha: WITH REGARD TO YOUR
EXCHANGES WITH JAMES COMEY, YOU
ASKED HIM ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON,
WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAD SENT
CLASSIFIED EMAILS, WHETHER OR
NOT THOUSANDS OF THOSE APPEARED
TO HAVE DISAPPEARED.
>> SECRETARY CLINTON SAID THERE
WAS NOTHING MARK CLASSIFIED ON
THE EMAIL SHE SENT OR RECEIVED.
IS THAT YOUR?
>> THAT IS NOT TRUE.
SECRETARY CLINTON SAID ALL
WORK-RELATED EMAILS WERE SENT
BACK TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
IS THAT YOUR?
>> NO, WE FOUND THOUSANDS OF
WORK-RELATED EMAILS THAT WERE
NOT RETURNED.
>> DID HER LAWYERS READ THE
EMAIL CONTENT INDIVIDUALLY?
>> NO.
>> IN THE INTEREST OF TIME AND
BECAUSE I HAVE A PLANE TO CATCH
UP TOMORROW AFTERNOON, I'M NOT
GOING TO GO THROUGH ANY MORE THE
FALSE STATEMENTS.
>> Martha: HE FELT HE DID NOT
DO A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION OF
THAT, AND YOU TRY TO GET HIM TO
ADMIT THAT IN THIS ROOM.
>> I WANT TO BE FAIR, IT IS
ALWAYS EASY TO LOOK BACK AND SEE
WHAT AN INVESTIGATOR SHOULD HAVE
DONE.
I WILL ALWAYS BE TROUBLED BY THE
FACT THAT HE WAS DRAFTING AN
EXONERATION MEMO BEFORE 24 WHICH
NOTICES 24
WITNESSES HAVE BEEN INTERVIEW,
INCLUDING HER.
I WILL ALWAYS BE TROUBLED BY THE
FACT THAT HER CHIEF OF STAFF
SAID BEFORE THE INTERVIEW THAT
THE ONLY CRIME SHE COULD BE
CHARGED WITH HIS FALSE
STATEMENT.
THEY'D ALREADY MADE UP THEIR
MINDS.
WE WILL NEVER SURVIVE IF PEOPLE
THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENT
JUSTICE FOR THE RICH AND THE
FAMOUS ON THE POWERFUL THEN FOR
SOME PRIVATE IN THE ARMY WHO MAY
HAVE ALSO MISHANDLED CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION.
THE BEAUTY OF US IS THAT LADY
LIBERTY DOES NOT WEAR A
BLINDFOLD.
>> Martha: DO YOU THINK HE
WENT TOO HARD?
>> A COUPLE, HONESTLY.
NOT THAT I WENT TOO HARD.
THERE WAS A DHS HEARING ON VISAS
AND THERE WAS A SECOND AMENDMENT
COMPONENT TO IT, AND IT IS NOT
THE WOMAN'S FAULT THAT THEY SENT
HER.
I NEVER RAISED MY VOICE, IT'S
JUST, IN HINDSIGHT, WAS SHE THE
BEST WITNESS FOR ME TO USE, TO
QUIZ ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE
IS ANY OTHER FACT PATTERN WHERE
THE GOVERNMENT TAKES YOUR RIGHT
AND YOU HAVE TO PETITION?
IT IS GOOD TO REMEMBER --
ACTUALLY, IT'S HELPFUL TO HAVE A
WIFE AND KIDS, AND IT'S GOOD TO
REMEMBER THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE
FAMILIES, TOO.
AND WHILE THIS MAY BE A SPORT
FOR SOME OF US AND WE CAN GO EAT
DINNER THAT NIGHT AND I'LL GET
OUR FEELINGS HURT, BUT FOR OF
THE WITNESSES, THIS WILL BE
THEIR ONLY MOMENT ON YOUTUBE.
IT WILL BE THE ONLY MOMENT ON
TELEVISION, AND DID YOU TREAT
THEM FAIRLY?
AND I THINK ON BALANCE, I DID,
OR I TRY TO, AND THERE WERE A
COUPLE OF OCCASIONS WHERE IF I
HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN I
WOULD'VE ASKED THE SAME
QUESTIONS BUT IT WOULD'VE
DIRECTED IT TO ANOTHER WITNESS.
>> Martha: YOU ARE LEAVING
WASHINGTON, IN PART, BECAUSE YOU
SUGGESTED THERE IS A FRUSTRATION
WITH THE WAY THINGS WORK HERE.
WHAT IS THE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW?
>> HUMAN NATURE.
THE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW IS THAT
COMPROMISE HAS AN INCREDIBLY
SMALL CONSTITUENCY AND WE HAVE
BOUGHT INTO THE NOTION THAT YOU
CAN MAKE TRANSFORMATIVE CHANGE
WITH 51% OF YOUR FELLOW
CITIZENS.
DEMOCRACY IS SUPPOSED TO BE
TOUGH.
IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE TOUGH, BUT
I DON'T THINK IT IS SUPPOSED TO
BE DYSFUNCTIONAL.
WHEN I MENTIONED HUMAN NATURE, I
WOULD LIKE TO SEE US APPLY THE
SAME RULES TO OUR FRIENDS AS WE
DO TO OUR ENEMIES.
IF WE WERE REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT
THIS ADMINISTRATION DOING
SOMETHING, WE SHOULD BE EQUALLY
CURIOUS WHEN OUR OWN
ADMINISTRATION DOES IT, AND WHEN
WINNING BECOMES THE ULTIMATE
OBJECTIVE, THEN YOU BECOME A
RELATIVIST, AND I DON'T WANT TO
SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE DOING
THAT.
>> Martha: WHAT WAS THE
MESSAGE OF THE MIDTERMS?
>> OH, BOY.
UNMET EXPECTATIONS...
CAREFUL HOW YOU FRAME ISSUES,
RHETORIC MATTERS.
I THINK IF YOU WERE TO LAY OUT A
POLICY POSITION OF REPUBLICANS,
I THINK YOU WOULD FIND MAY BE
HALF AND A SLIGHTLY MORE THAN
HALF WOULD SAY, OKAY, WE ARE
WITH YOU.
WHEN YOU FACTOR IN HOW WE COME
ACROSS SOMETIMES, I THINK
PARTICULARLY AMONG FEMALE VOTER
VOTERS, THEY SAY, I DON'T CARE
HOW GOOD YOUR IDEAS ARE, YOU
DON'T SEEM LIKE A VERY GOOD
PERSON.
I THINK WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND HOW
YOU COMMUNICATE IT ARE EQUALLY
IMPORTANT AND WE NEED TO DO MUCH
BETTER JOB OF HOW WE
COMMUNICATE.
>> Martha: ANY REGRETS ABOUT
YOUR DECISION TO LEAVE?
>> NO MA'AM.
NINE.
>> Martha: >> Martha: WHAT
IS NEXT FOR YOU?
>> I WILL PRACTICE LAW IN A FIRM
AT SOUTH CAROLINA THAT I HAVE A
HISTORY WITH, AND MORE
IMPORTANTLY WITH TWO LAWYERS
THAT I HAVE WORKED WITH OVER THE
LAST COUPLE YEARS AND I AM TO
THE POINT IN LIFE WHERE WHO I DO
THINGS WITH MATTERS TO ME EVERY
BIT AS MUCH AS WHAT I DO, AND
WHEN YOU FIND PEOPLE OF
UNASSAILABLE CHARACTER THAT YOU
ENJOY BEING AROUND, I WOULD
RATHER DIG DITCHES THAN PRACTICE
LAW WITH PEOPLE THAT I DON'T
KNOW AND LIKE AND RESPECT.
WE ARE GOING TO PRACTICE LAW,
I'M GOING TO SHOCK THE WORLD AND
WRITE ANOTHER BOOK WITH TIM
SCOTT.
>> Martha: ABOUT?
>> HOPEFULLY ABOUT HIM, HE'S A
LOT MORE INTERESTING THAN I AM.
BUT I THINK -- JIM WANTS TO ASK
ME A BOOK ABOUT HOW TO ASK
QUESTIONS.
HOW TO ELICIT THE TRUTH WITH
ASKING QUESTIONS, AND I WANT HIM
TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT HIS LIFE
AND HOW HIS UPBRINGING
INFLUENCED HIS POLITICAL
ORTHODOXY.
TO ME AND I TAUGHT A CLASS AT
CLEMSON FOR STUDENTS.
HE'S GREAT, HE'S THE NICEST
TEACHER IN THE WORLD AND I --
>> Martha: AM NOT?
>> WELL, THESE ARE FRESHMAN IN
COLLEGE.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
SOCRATIC METHOD IS.
I'VE GOT TO DIAL IT BACK A
LITTLE BIT.
AND BE A BETTER HUSBAND, A
BETTER FATHER.
BOTH OF OUR KIDS ARE AT HOME NOW
AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE
STARTING THEIR CAREERS.
I THINK OUR DAUGHTER IS GOING TO
GO TO LAW SCHOOL, GOD SAVE US
ALL IF THAT HAPPENS.
MY SON FINISHED LAW SCHOOL, BUT
HE IS GOING TO GO INTO
REAL ESTATE.
JUST BE A BETTER HUSBAND, A
BETTER FATHER.
I'VE GOT ONE-THIRD OF LIFE.
>> Martha: YOU SAID ONCE A
FEDERAL JUDGESHIP CHECKED ALL OF
YOUR BOXES.
IS THAT STILL TRUE?
>> YES, MA'AM, IT DID.
LINDSAY AND TIM PLAYED IT RIGHT
IN FRONT OF ME.
THEY SAID, WE HAVE TWO OPENINGS.
DO YOU WANT TO?
THE PERSON WHO KNOWS ME THE BEST
IN LIFE, WHO ALSO DOESN'T FOLLOW
POLITICS, IS MY WIFE.
SHE SAID, YOU WILL BE LONELY,
YOU LIKE BEING AROUND PEOPLE.
YOU LIKE BEING AN ADVOCATE, AND
I SAID THANKS BUT NO THANKS, AND
THEN LINDSAY CALLED BACK AND
SAID, YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING?
IT'S WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS WANTED,
RIGHT HERE.
AND THEN DON BEGAN CALLED, THE
PRESIDENT'S FORMER LAWYER
CALLED, AND HE SAID ARE YOU SUR?
AND I SAID, NOT ONLY AM I SURE,
I AM AT PEACE.
THEY FILLED IT WITH A GUY I HAVE
KNOWN FOR 25 YEARS WHO WILL BE A
FANTASTIC JUDGE AND A BREAK FOR
BOTH OF US.
>> Martha: EVER RUN FOR OFFICE
AGAIN?
>> NEVER.
I WILL GET BACK INTO POLITICS IF
TIM SCOTT RUNS FOR PRESIDENT,
AND HE SAYS, LOOK I NEED YOU TO
GO TO IOWA OR NEW HAMPSHIRE AND
KNOCK ON DOORS, WHICH YOU
PROBABLY WON'T BECAUSE I WOULD
HURT HIM, BUT TO SUPPORT JOHN
RADCLIFFE -- HE RAN FOR GOVERNOR
OF TEXAS -- AND HE SAYS, COME
HELP ME.
I WOULD, BUT YOU WILL NEVER SEE
ME ON THE BALLOT AGAIN.
>> Martha: TREY GOWDY,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE HAVE ENJOYED HAVING YOU ON
THE SHOW AND COVERING THESE
STORIES WITH YOU, AND WE WISH