TOOK AN ACTIVIST TO COURT FOR
WRITING ARTICLES THAT CLAIMED
THE COMPANY’S PRACTICE INCLUDED
FAMILY SEPARATIONS.
AND THE COURT RULED THE ACTIVIST
WAS NOT IN THE WRONG.
MORGAN SIMON WHO CONTRIBUTES TO
"FORBES" WROTE ABOUT HOW THE TWO
LARGEST PRIVATE PRISON
COMPANIES, CORE CIVIC AND
GEOGROUP MANAGED DETENTION
CENTERS AT THE HEART OF THE
FAMILY SEPARATION POLICY. MANAGE
AT THE HEART OF THE FAMILY
SEPARATION POLICY.
CORE CIVIC SUED SIMON FOR LIBEL,
SAYING THE USE OF THE TERM
FAMILY SEPARATION MAKES IT SOUND
LIKE THEY ARE ALSO DETAINING
CHILDREN AGAINST THEIR WILL,
THOUGH THEY HELD PARENTS IN
DETENTION WHO WERE ULTIMATELY
SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES
AND CHILDREN.
WITH ME NOW ONE OF THE WRITERS
OF THAT ARTICLE, NAVID JAMAALI,
EDITOR AT LARGE AT "NEWSWEEK."
ALSO THE ACTIVIST TAKEN TO
COURT, MORGAN SIMON A SENIOR
CONTRIBUTOR AT "FORBES" AND
AUTHOR OF THE BOOK "REAL
IMPACT: THE REAL ECONOMICS OF
SOCIAL CHANGE."
MORGAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
BEING WITH US.
"NEWSWEEK" SHARED SOME OF THE
COURT TRANSCRIPT AS CORE CIVIC
FOUGHT THEY WEREN’T SEPARATING
FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY WEREN’T
DETAINING CHILDREN.
THE JUDGE SAID BUT YOU WERE
HOUSING THE FAMILIES THAT HAD
BEEN SEPARATED, THE PARENTS
PART, AT DULTS PART.
WHAT IS THE IMPORTANT MESSAGE
THERE WHEN IT COMES TO HOW
FAMILY SEPARATION IS DEFINED?
>> SO LET’S BE CLEAR.
BIRDS FLY, FISH SWIM, PRISONS
SEPARATE FAMILIES.
IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
ANYTIME SOMEONE GOES TO PRISON
OR JAIL OR DETENTION CENTER,
THEY HAVE BEEN SEPARATED FROM A
FAMILY MEMBER.
NOW, IN THE CASE OF TRUMP’S
FAMILY SEPARATION POLICY YOU
WERE RIPPING FAMILIES APART AND
DETAINING BOTH SIDES OF THAT
EQUATION.
NOW, IT CERTAINLY TAKES TWO TO
TANGO, AND THAT MEANS IF YOU
WERE INCARCERATING THE PARENTS
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY PARTICIPATING
IN FAMILY SEPARATION.
THAT’S WHY I’M STILL SHOCKED TO
THIS DAY AT THIS FRIVOLOUS
LAWSUIT.
THE IDEA THAT YOU WOULD WASTE A
DIME OF SHAREHOLDER MONEY TRYING
TO DENY THIS TRUTH AS OPPOSED TO
REALLY SEEING WHAT ARE THE
OPPORTUNITIES WE HAVE FOR REAL
CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND IMMIGRATION
REFORM.
>> NAVID, WHEN YOU PUT THIS
STORY IN FRONT OF ME, YOU ARGUED
TO ME THAT THIS WAS BIGGER THAN
JUST THESE COMPANIES.
IT WAS A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS
ISSUE.
TELL ME WHY.
>> I MEAN, WHEN I FIRST SAW
THIS, IT SEEMED UNBELIEVABLE TO
THINK THAT THE CORE OF CORE
CIVIC’S LIBEL CASE AGAINST
MORGAN WAS THAT SHE WAS CALLING
THIS FAMILY SEPARATION.
AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT’S LIBEL
OR SLANDER, THE BEST DEFENSE IS
THE TRUTH.
IN THIS CASE IT’S HARD TO ARGUE
THAT FAMILY SEPARATION ISN’T
HAPPENING IF YOU JUST DETAIN THE
ADULT, THE PARENTS.
IN FACT, THAT’S WHAT THE JUDGE
SAID, AS MORGAN POINTED OUT.
SO YES, THIS SEEMS TO BE LARGER
THAN JUST FAMILY DETENTION AND
CORE CIVIC AND MORGAN.
THERE’S A QUESTION HERE WHICH IS
LOOK, IF A CORPORATION DOESN’T
LIKE WHAT AN ACTIVIST IS SAYING
AND THAT ACTIVIST IS SAYING THE
TRUTH AND THAT IMPACTS THEIR
BOTTOM LINE, IT IMPACTS THEIR
ABILITY TO RAISE CAPITAL, CAN
THEY JUST SUE?
AND IN THIS CASE THEY DID AND
THEY LOST.
AND SO I THINK THIS HAS -- YOU
KNOW, THIS HAS A CHILLING
IMPACT, WHETHER YOU’RE AN
AMERICAN WHO DEFENDS THE FIRST
AMENDMENT, YOU’RE IN MEDIA OR
YOU’RE AN ACTIVIST.
I MEAN, I THINK THE IDEA THAT
SOMEONE COULD SUE MORGAN FOR
JUST TELLING THE TRUTH, IT’S
JUST ANTI-AMERICAN.
>> MORGAN, WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU
THAT THIS PRIVATE COMPANY WOULD
GO THROUGH THESE LENGTHS PARTLY
TO AVOID BEING LUMPED WITH
TRUMP’S FAMILY SEPARATION
POLICY?
>> IT TELLS ME TWO THINGS.
ONE IS THAT THEY FUNDAMENTALLY
DON’T UNDERSTAND SOCIAL
MOVEMENTS, WHICH IS THAT THERE
WERE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TAKING
ACTIVIST STEPS AROUND FAMILY
SEPARATION AND HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS THAT WERE ORGANIZED BY
THE FAMILIES ONE TOGETHER
COALITION TO ADDRESS THE ROLE OF
MONEY IN THE BANKS FINANCING
PRIVATE PRISONS.
SO THERE WERE SO MANY OF US
SAYING WE DON’T WANT TO MAKE
MONEY FOR OUR FAMILIES BY
LOCKING UP SOMEONE ELSE’S.
NOW, I’M AN IMPACT INVESTOR.
I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME HELPING
PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR MONEY
WORKING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE.
AND IN GENERAL I’M AGAINST ANY
INDUSTRY THAT IS PROFITING FROM
CAUSING HARM.
WE KNOW THAT THERE’S A BETTER
WAY.
AND THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO FINANCE
INDUSTRIES THAT ARE REALLY GOING
TO DO SOCIAL GOOD IN THE WORLD.
SO I THINK THAT THAT IS AN
IMPORTANT PIECE OF THIS
EQUATION, THAT IT REALLY WAS
PART OF A LARGER SOCIAL
MOVEMENT, AND THAT IT’S ALSO
REFLECTIVE OF THE FACT THE
PRIVATE PRISON INDUSTRY HAS BEEN
FACING SOME SERIOUS FINANCIAL
DISTRESS BEYOND LOSING THIS
CASE, BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS
HAVING PLEDGED TO STOP THE USE
OF PRIVATE PRISONS AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL, AND THEN THE
INCREDIBLE LOSS IN THEIR STOCK
PRICE.
CORE CIVIC SEEING OVER 50% IN
THE COURSE OF A YEAR, AND ITS
CREDIT DOWNGRADED FROM AVERAGE
TO NEGATIVE.
SO BETWEEN THOSE THREE, LOSING
THE LAWSUIT, THE NEW
ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR
FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE, IT’S
REALLY THE WRITING ON THE WALL
FOR THE INDUSTRY.
AND TO BLAME ONE ACTIVIST FOR
THAT WHO’S PART OF REALLY A
MASSIVE MOVEMENT JUST REALLY
FEELS LIKE FOLLY TO ME.
>> NAV YEED, THE SISTER OF A
WOMAN, A MOTHER WHO WAS
DETAINED, SEPARATED FROM HER
FAMILY, TOLD "NEWSWEEK" "MY
FAMILY IS STILL RECOVERING FROM
THE HORROR OF BEING SEPARATED.
IT WAS BAD ENOUGH FOR ME TO
THINK THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
TREATED US SO POORLY.
IT WAS EVEN WORSE WHEN I
REALIZED A PRIVATE COMPANY WAS
ACTUALLY MAKING MONEY OFF OF OUR
MISERY TOO.
NAVEED, FOR SOMEONE WHO’S
WATCHING WHO DOESN’T KNOW MUCH
ABOUT THESE COMPANIES, WHAT IS
IT THAT THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND?
>> THIS IS A CORPORATION THAT IS
DRIVEN BY MAKING PROFIT AS
CORPORATIONS DO.
AND IN THAT CASE THAT MOTIVATION
MEANS THAT THEY WANT MORE PEOPLE
THAT THEY CAN BILL THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT FOR.
AND THEY WANT THEM THERE LONGER.
SO THEY’RE NOT INCENTIVIZED TO
PUSH THESE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF A
COURT, TO GET THEIR DAY IN FRONT
OF A JUDGE, AND IT’S A CHILLING
IMPACT WHEN WE START MAKING THIS
A PROFIT-DRIVEN ENTERPRISE.
RIGHT?
IT’S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON
HOW LONG PEOPLE SAY, HOW MANY
PEOPLE COME.
AND I THINK THAT WHEN YOU COME
WITH IMMIGRATION IT’S A DOUBLE