AND HUMAN RIGHTS.
FORMER HEAD OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS
DIVISION IN THE OBAMA JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
>>> JOINING ME NOW, BEN RODS.
THERE’S A QUESTION OF WHAT’S
GOING ON.
THERE’S UNDERSTANDABLE FEAR ON
THE PART OF OBSERVERS ABOUT
WHETHER DONALD TRUMP IS JUST
PLAYING GAMES WITH CHANGING
PEOPLE AROUND IN THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AND DEFENSE
ESTABLISHMENT OR WHETHER HE’S
PLAYING WITH THE MILITARY
BECAUSE HE THINKS HE WANTS TO
STAY IN OFFICE AND EXPECTS THEM
TO HELP HIM DO SO?
GIVE ME SOME EVALUATION OF WHAT
YOU THINK IS GOING ON ON THE
MILITARY AND NATIONAL SECURITY
SIDE?
>> WELL, ALI, HERE’S MY
EVALUATION.
THE PEOPLE HE’S ELEVATED TO
THESE ROLES AT DOD AND THE
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY ARE NOT
THE KIND OF PEOPLE YOU WOULD
TURN TO TO START A WAR OR EVEN
TO USE THE MILITARY TO SOMEHOW
STAY IN POWER.
THESE ARE THE SAME CONSPIRACY
THEORISTS THAT WORKED FOR DEVIN
NUNEZ THAT HAVE BEEN TRYING TO
UNDERMINE THE RUSSIA UNVEST
INTERROGATION SINCE THE
BEGINNING OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.
IT INCLUDES THE GUY THAT MOVED
THE CALL TO TRY TO HIDE IT.
IT INCLUDES THE GUY WHO CAME UP
WITH THE THEORY THAT IT WAS
UNMASKS DONE BY OBAMA OFFICIALS
THAT WAS THE ROOT OF THE RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION.
TO ME, THE SIGNAL HE’S SENDING
IS LESS HE’S GOING TO USE THE
MILITARY TO STAY IN POWER AND
MORE HE’S GOING TO USE THE
REMAINING TIME IN OFFICE TO
CONTINUE TO TRY TO VALIDATE IN
SOME FASHION HIS CONSPIRACY
THEORIES BY SELECTIVELY
RELEASING CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION.
THAT’S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
IT’S ABOUT TRYING TO EXONERATE
DONALD TRUMP FOR THE REALITY
THAT RUSSIA HELPED HIM GET
ELECTED IN 2016.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND IT’S ABOUT TRYING TO
UNDERMINE THE INCOMING BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION IN SOME RIGHT
WING CLOUD CONSPIRACY THEORY
SCANDAL.
>> THAT’S THE BETTER NEWS.
OF THE TWO OPTIONS I GAVE YOU,
THAT’S THE BETTER ONE, THAT HE’S
NOT PLANNING TO USE THE NATIONAL
SECURITY APPARATUS AND THE
MILITARY TO STAY IN OFFICE.
BUT HOW BAD IS THAT?
VANITA JUST MADE THE POINT IT’S
NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.
IT’S NOT GOOD GENERALLY SPEAKING
FOR THE COUNTRY.
BUT IN THE END, IS IT WORK THAT
CAN BE UNDONE?
DONALD TRUMP IS USING HIS LAST
71 DAYS TO RILE UP HIS BASE AND
TO HAVE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
SPREAD AROUND AND THAT WILL WORK
IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT IN THE
END WILL IT MATTER?
>> I THINK IT’S BAD FOR A FEW
REASONS.
THESE PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY
INCOMPETENT AND UNQUALIFIED.
THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS RUNNING
THE UNITED STATES MILITARY, THE
PENTAGON, ONE OF THE LARGEST --
PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL
INSTITUTIONS IN THE WORLD.
AND YOU’VE GOT A BUNCH OF
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS IN CHARGE?
WHAT IF THERE’S A CRISIS?
WHAT IFFING SOMETHING HAPPENS
AROUND THE WORLD?
YOU TALK ABOUT EARTH ONE AND
EARTH TWO.
A LOT OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS
LIVE IN THE INFORMATION
ECOSYSTEM OF EARTH TWO.
AND IF THEY’RE GOING TO BE FILLED WITH CONSPIRACY THEORY
FILLED WITH CONSPIRACY THEORY
AND HATE THAT’S GOING TO SEEK TO
DE-LEGITIMIZE JOE BIDEN AND THE
NATION’S CAPACITY TO SOLVE
PROBLEMS.
>> YOU TOUCH ON SOMETHING REALLY
INTERESTING, BEN.
SORRY.
I DIDN’T WANT TO INTERRUPT YOU.
BUT YOU DID TOUCH ON SOMETHING
INTERESTING.
THE POINT OF A PEACEFUL
TRANSITION OF POWER IS THAT THE
WORLD KNOWS THAT’S HOW IT’S
GOING TO BE SO DON’T MESS WITH
THE UNITED STATES BETWEEN
ELECTION DAY AND INAUGURATION
DAY BECAUSE WE’VE GOT THIS THING
SEWN UP.
THE DANGER OF NOT SENDING THAT
MESSAGE IS REAL.
>> IT IS ABSOLUTELY REAL BECAUSE
THERE’S TWO THINGS YOU HAVE TO
DO IN A TRANSITION.
ONE, MAINTAIN THE CREDIBILITY OF
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT SO
THAT NOBODY TESTS US FROM A
NATIONAL SECURITY PERSPECTIVE.
TWO, MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE
INCOMING TEAM TO HIT THE GROUND
RUNNING ON JANUARY 20th.
AND THEY’RE GOING TO DO
EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO PREVENT
THAT FROM HAPPENING.
THAT’S GOING TO HINDER OUR
NATIONAL SECURITY BECAUSE YOU
DON’T HAVE THE CAPACITY OF
PEOPLE TO GET IN FROM THE BIDEN
TRANSITION TEAM, GET UNDER THE
HOOD DO, THE WORK TO GET UP TO
SPEED.
I ALSO SAY IT’S DISCREDITING
THESE INSTITUTIONS TO HAVE THE
SECRETARY OF STATE SAY SOMETHING
ABOUT WE’RE GOING TO HAVE A
PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER, A
SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
HE RUNS THE DEPARTMENT, THE
STATE DEPARTMENT, THAT USUALLY
ISSUES STATEMENTS EXPRESSING
CONCERN WHEN FOREIGN OFFICIALS
SEEK TO STAY IN POWER THROUGH
THE KINDS OF MEANS WE’RE SEEING.
THE UNITED STATES MILITARY, THE
PENTAGON HAVING PEOPLE LIKE THIS
IN CHARGE, IT’S A DISCREDIT TO
THAT INSTITUTION.
SO, ON HIS WAY OUT, DONALD TRUMP
IS DOING WHAT HE’S DONE THUS FAR