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Hi, and welcome back.
I'm Mike Quincy.
I'm Kelly Funkhouser.
I'm Gabe Shenhar.
So in this episode of Talking Cars,
we are going to be talking about a super cool car.
We're talking space-age technology.
We've had an opportunity to spend
some time driving a second-generation Toyota Mirai.
Now it's a rear-wheel drive version of this hydrogen
fuel-cell vehicle.
And a lot of people are like, well,
hydrogen-- how the heck does that work?
So hydrogen-powered vehicles use an onboard fuel cell
to generate electricity, using ambient oxygen and compressed
hydrogen stored in the vehicle's built-in tanks.
The electricity powers the vehicle, and clean water
drips from beneath the car as a byproduct of the chemical
reaction.
That's a shortened version of saying, wow,
this is actually a real thing.
It's not just "pie in the sky" kind
of thoughts about a new way to propel cars.
Toyota is saying that it has up to 400 miles
of a cruising range.
They're including up to $15,000 of complimentary hydrogen
with a purchase or a lease.
Pricing starts about $49,500.
But here's the catch.
It's on sale in California only.
And we rented two versions from Toyota, an XLE and a limited.
And Gabe, you're one of a few people
who have been able to drive both the first and second generation
of the Mirai.
What do you think?
Exactly.
So some of our viewers will remember
that we tested the first-generation Toyota Mirai.
We actually bought it in California
and hauled it to our facility in Connecticut
and went through the whole living with it
and filling it up in our station close by,
30 miles from us in Wallingford, Connecticut.
So yeah, the second generation is--
while the first generation was a little clumsy-looking kind
of car and clumsy handling, second generation
really transforms it into much more like a sports-sedan kind
of a car.
Not only it's stylish, but it's also
based on a rear-wheel drive Lexus platform that
feels a lot more substantial.
Now, in general, fuel-cell cars--
like you said, there are electric vehicles that
produce their power onboard.
But the drawbacks are that the hydrogen tanks
take a lot of space.
So there is a compromise in packaging.
And the elephant in the room, of course,
is the charging-- the filling infrastructure.
Right now, we have about 40 stations nationwide.
Most of them are concentrated in California and--
That actually was a nice little slip, Gabe.
You said charging, because we usually
talk about electric cars.
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, so most of them are concentrated in the Bay Area
or in the LA metro area.
And there is really a lack of hydrogen infrastructure.
So that's why everybody says, it's
like the technology of 20 years from now.
And meanwhile, we're witnessing that EVs are really taking off,
and the hydrogen fuel cell--
not really.
Right now, you only have the Mirai and the Hyundai Nexo
as fuel-cell vehicles, both only available in California.
Both sell minuscule units.
Toyota sold about 2,600 Mirais, which is less than half
of the Toyota Supra that they sell also small volume.
So yeah, you have some real built-in obstacles there.
Well, and Kelly, Gabe touched on this
about infrastructure issues.
That being said, does hydrogen have any chance, do you think,
for the future?
I think hydrogen is the future.
The fact that, essentially, the only output emission is water
and a lot of the hydrogen fuel cell itself is built cleanly--
I think that there are a lot of potential future
implementations of this car.
And I look at it as--
like Gabe said, this is the car of the future.
So where we're at right now is, think electric vehicles
10 or even 20 years ago, right?
They were very, very new.
The infrastructure was sparse.
We're at that point right now with the hydrogen fuel cells.
But the fact that the Mirai can get 400 miles to a tank--
that is way better than we were for EVs 10, even 5 years ago,
really.
And so the fact that this technology
seems to be up and coming--
that means that it's only going to get even better from here
on out.
Yeah, I certainly remember seeing
this second-generation Mirai at an auto show a few years ago.
Remember when we used to go to auto shows?
Oh gosh.
Striking styling.
I think it's a very good-looking car.
And Gabe, you touched on it being on a Lexus platform.
Another Lexus influence, to my eye, is the interior.
This is a pretty beautiful interior.
Yeah, it's pretty snazzy.
You have fall leather and soft touches
and a lot of high-end kind of touch points there.
So it could totally pass for a Lexus.
And I'm sure, inside Toyota boardroom,
they were discussing whether or not
to introduce that as a Lexus.
Yeah, that's a good point.
But another thing here--
Toyota has been a bit gun-shy on electric vehicles--
pure electric vehicles.
And they were very careful not to put all their eggs
in one basket.
So they spread-- they have all the technologies.
And they've been pretty gung-ho about the hydrogen,
because the advantage here is that instead of charging
an electric vehicle for hours, here,
you fill it up within a few minutes, which is
similar to filling up with gas.
So that's the advantage.
But yeah, I see the future of hydrogen
more in commercial vehicles and in buses and heavy trucks
rather than private cars for consumers,
mainly because of the packaging challenges.
The Mirai is quite a large car.
And sit in the back seat, and it's pretty cramped in there.
And the trunk-- also, one of the hydrogen tanks
robs so much space that the trunk is tiny.
So you have these compromises built into the--
just by virtue of carrying all that hydrogen onboard.
Mm-hmm.
And as you mentioned, the packaging--
the packaging adds up to a lot of weight.
Driving this car, it did not feel as--
it didn't have this ferocious acceleration
that we've seen from so many electric cars.
In fact, it almost felt a little sluggish.
There's reports of acceleration from 0 to 60 about 9 seconds.
That's pretty slow.
Absolutely.
The car is pretty heavy.
It weighs-- on our scales, we had it weighed yesterday.
It's 4,300 pounds kind of car and only has 182 horsepower.
So right there, you can see that that's not really
an impressive ratio between power and weight.
So when you drive it, it feels OK.
But for the size of the car and the price of the car,
definitely, it feels a little leisurely
in terms of acceleration.
Mm-hmm.
Now, Kelly, all things being equal, if people can have--
in a perfect world, the infrastructure
is going to be there.
Do you think it's a compelling choice
to take one of these over one of the more
popular electric vehicles?
Yeah, I think especially if you're
coming from a gas-powered vehicle
and don't have all of the miles that we've put in
with electric vehicles, expecting that instant torque
and acceleration, it's still a pleasant drive,
even though it's heavy, because it doesn't have the gas-powered
and transmission in it.
It's a very smooth acceleration.
And so I found it very pleasant to drive.
And so I do think that a lot of consumers
will be happy with it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, just like an EV, if the hydrogen infrastructure
increases, it won't require a lot of planning.
You have to plan when you have an EV.
You're going to have to plan if you have a hydrogen fuel-cell
vehicle.
And the road trips are going to be a challenge.
I laughed to myself when you said
we bought a first generation.
We had it hauled back from California.
It was like, what a story that would
have been if we drove it back from California, finding
enough--
But Quincy--
--charging stations or fueling stations
to get us from California to Connecticut.
So the future, though-- if we're reducing
the number of gas-powered vehicles
that are even going to be allowed to be sold in the US,
a lot of those gas stations are likely
going to have to be converted.
So essentially, the infrastructure is there.
It's just filled with the wrong fuel for hydrogen-powered cars.
So it's a little different from the electric-vehicle
infrastructure, we have to build these charging stations.
Gas stations are there.
So in the future, perhaps the physical infrastructure
is already there, too.
Yeah, Gabe, you were going to say?
Oh, I was going to just echo what Kelly said
about how pleasant the car is.
And it, indeed, is a comfortable riding car,
and it's a very quiet car.
And the handling is pretty--
it's not sporty, but you can feel
the roots of the rear-wheel drive chassis in there.
Mm-hmm.
Well, this is a neat opportunity that the three of us
have to drive such technology.
We'll have more on the Toyota Mirai.
Just check consumerreports.org.
And here we are.
We're going to jet off into the next part
of this podcast, which is the question of the day.
We love your questions.
Text questions, 30-second videos.
Keep sending them to talkingcars@icloud.com.
That's talkingcars@icloud.com.
We have a video question now from Brad.
Hey, guys.
I have two questions for you about Ford's BlueCruise
feature.
The first one is, Ford really promoted this idea
that they were going to be using lidar mapping of the highways
as part of BlueCruise.
But what I can't figure out is-- and Ford
hasn't been sharing this information-- is whether or not
that mapping actually makes BlueCruise more
accurate than just traditional lane
keeping that's already included in the cars,
or if they're just mapping the highways in order
to create a geofence within which BlueCruise can be used.
My second question is, assuming that it's just
to create a geofence, and BlueCruise isn't actually
more accurate than just normal lane keeping
with adaptive cruise control, for those of us that
didn't have BlueCruise equipped with their vehicles,
do you think it's worth paying an extra $500,
essentially, to switch from what we currently have,
which has what I call a hand nanny to make
sure your hands are on the wheel,
to swap that out for an eye nanny instead?
Thanks a lot.
So Kelly, I'm going to start with you.
You spent a lot of time studying and using these systems.
What can you say to Brad?
Yeah, so just like the car that I think Brad has,
we have, for our test program, an early production vehicle
that hasn't received the over-the-air update
for BlueCruise.
But we did rent one from Ford, and so we've experienced it.
And Brad, I think you're right on, where this mapping
idea really leads to a geofence type of a scenario
for the BlueCruise.
But it's a little bit different in the BlueCruise--
the Ford BlueCruise-- as it is from the Cadillac Super Cruise,
where Super Cruise really geofence-locks use of any part
of the system--
the lane centering plus adaptive cruise control--
to only limited portions of those pre-mapped roadways.
But the BlueCruise is different because what it does is,
you can use those same features--
the centering and adaptive cruise control--
on all roadways.
But this adds a component to it where
you have these sections of hands-free operation
of the vehicle.
So rather than not allowing you to use the system at all,
it's actually adding a feature to it.
And the mapping, in our experience,
we found, actually is helpful, because what
happens is, if your GPS says that you're approaching
a curve, or there's an issue with the lane lines coming up,
it prompts the driver to keep their hands on the wheel.
So going from the hands-free to asking the driver
to have their hands essentially at the ready.
We found that the systems are capable, most of the time,
to continue to make the curve with staying
in the center of the lane line.
But it is really nice to have the driver's hands
at the ready just in case.
And we found that actually reassuring.
And then the second part of the question is really,
is it worth it to change from the-- have to apply the torque
or keep your hands on the wheel compared to now using the eye
tracker?
And I think once you use that eye tracker,
you quickly realize why everyone looks at it so fondly
and favorably, because it does reduce that annoyance of having
to touch the steering wheel or steer it a little bit,
even if you're on a very straight road.
So once you experience it, you'll love it.
And we find it to be a better safety mechanism as well.
Gabe, do you want to weigh in on this?
It's a good question there.
And I think you know yourself better.
You know what you can afford, whether or not it's worth $500.
We can't tell you.
You know that better than us.
But invariably, there is going to be a moment where
you're going to be distracted.
So the eye tracking is a much more effective way
to keep you engaged than just monitoring
your hand on the wheel.
Mm-hmm.
It also shows what a highly-educated audience
Talking Cars has.
Not every day, we get questions that brings up lidar.
So--
Right.
--anyway, Brad, great question.
Thanks for sending them in.
And that's really going to wrap up
this episode of Talking Cars.
Thanks so much.
As always, check the show notes for more information
on the vehicles and topics that we talked about.
We'll see you next week.
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