>>> HE TURNED AROUND AND HE TOLD at nothing.
>>> HE TURNED AROUND AND HE TOLD
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IF THAT PERSON
STARTS SCREAMING IN THE CROWD, I
GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO BEAT THEM
UP AND DONT WORRY, ILL PAY
YOUR LEGAL FEES.
WELL, FORTUNATELY FOR A LOT OF
PEOPLE THAT THEY DIDNT DO THAT,
BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP WOULD NEVER
PAY YOUR LEGAL FEES, AND YOU CAN
TAKE THAT TO THE BANK, BECAUSE
IM RIGHT NOW IN LITIGATION WITH
HIM ON THE EXACT SAME TOPIC.
>> TO BORROW ONE OF DONALD
TRUMPS OLD LINES, RUDY, IF
YOURE LISTENING.
SIGNS TODAY THAT RUDY GIULIANI
IS FACING A REAL CASH CRUNCH AS
HIS LEGAL TROUBLES PILE UP.
POLITICO IS REPORTING THAT
GIULIANI HAS CUT DOWN ON HIS
PERSONAL ENTOURAGE OVER THE LAST
FEW WEEKS, SEEKING TO, QUOTE,
CUT COSTS.
THIS ON THE HEELS OF THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" REPORTING THAT
GIULIANIS ADVISORS BELIEVE
TRUMP SHOULD PAY HIS PRICEY
LEGAL BILLS, A FRUITLESS REQUEST
IF YOU ASK MICHAEL COHEN.
THE "TIMES" REPORTING THIS.
QUOTE, MR. GIULIANI LED THE
EFFORT TO SUBVERT THE RESULTS OF
THE 2020 RACE IN A SERIES OF
BATTLEGROUND STATES BUT HE WAS
NOT PAID FOR THE WORK, ACCORDING
TO PEOPLE CLOSE TO GIULIANI AND
TRUMP.
HIS SUPPORTERS NOW WANT THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN TO TAP INTO THE
$250 MILLION IT RAISED IN THE
WEEKS AFTER THE ELECTION TO PAY
GIULIANI AND ABSORB COSTS HE HAS
INCURRED IN THE DEFAMATION
SUITS.
THATS NOT TO MENTION THE
FEDERAL INVESTIGATION HES
FACING OVER HIS CONDUCT IN
UKRAINE AND AS THE PRESSURE
RAMPS UP ON RUDY, GEORGE CONWAY
WARNS IN A NEW OP-ED TODAY THAT
COULD MEAN LEGAL EXPOSURE FOR
THE FORMER PRESIDENT.
QUOTE, IF GIULIANI HAS ANYTHING
TO OFFER PROSECUTORS TO SAVE
HIMSELF, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE
TRUMP, THE ONLY BIGGER FISH
LEFT.
AND IT WAS ARGUABLY CRIMINAL FOR
THE THEN-PRESIDENT TO HAVE USED
HIS OFFICIAL POWERS TO TRY TO
COERCE FOREIGN OFFICIALS INTO
AIDING HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
IN FACT, GIULIANIS ADMISSION
THAT HE WASNT CONDUCTING
FOREIGN POLICY BUT MERELY
HELPING TRUMP PERSONALLY IS
EXACTLY WHAT WOULD MAKE THE
SCHEME PROSECUTABLE.
THE FORMER GUY JUST MIGHT WANT
TO RETHINK STIFFING GIULIANI ON
THOSE BILLS.
WERE BACK WITH TIM OBRIEN AND
JOYCE VANCE.
JOYCE, THIS FEELS MUDDLED,
FRANKLY.
I MEAN, IF TRUMP STARTS JUST
INJECTING CASH INTO RUDYS BANK
ACCOUNT, RIGHT WHEN RUDY IS
FACED WITH A DECISION ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT TO COOPERATE IN
AN INVESTIGATION THAT COULD LEAD
TO DONALD TRUMP, DOES THAT
EXPOSE TRUMP TO OBSTRUCTION OR
BRIBERY CHARGES POTENTIALLY?
>> THE WHOLE SITUATION IS REALLY
FRAUGHT ON BOTH SIDES.
CERTAINLY IF TRUMP DID THAT,
THERE WOULD BE THAT SUSPICION
BASED ON HOW ALL OF THIS IS
EVOLVING WITH RUDY GIULIANIS
SUPPORTERS SAYING THAT THEYVE
SPOKEN WITH THE PRESIDENTS
LEGAL TEAM, DEMANDING THESE SORT
OF PAYMENTS.
IT COULD JUST BE CHARACTERIZED
AS A PAYMENT ON A DEBT THAT WAS
OWING, BUT TRUMP HAS MAINTAINED
ALL ALONG THAT HE WOULD PAY
GIULIANI ONLY FOR EXPENSES AND
NOT FOR LEGAL FEES ASSOCIATED
WITH HIS POST-ELECTION WORK.
SO, IT WOULD GIVE OFF THAT SORT
OF AN ODOR, AND IT WOULD
CERTAINLY BE INTERESTING IN THE
CONTEXT THAT WERE SEEING NOW
WHERE GIULIANI HAS PREVIOUSLY
SAID THAT HES GOT SOME
INSURANCE, THAT IF HE WERE EVER
TO BE INDICTED, THAT HE HAS
MATERIAL THAT HE COULD TURN
OVER.
I THINK GEORGE CONWAY NAILS IT
WHEN HE SUGGESTS THAT THE FORMER
PRESIDENT WOULD BE THE MOST
LIKELY PERSON THAT GIULIANI
COULD CONVINCE FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS HE SHOULD BE
PERMITTED TO COOPERATE AGAINST,
AND SO TRUMP PROCEEDS AT HIS
PERIL NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES
HERE, SEEMINGLY.
>> I WANT TO READ SOME MORE OF
THE CONWAY OP-ED THAT JOYCE
REFERENCED, TIM.
GEORGE SAYS, FEDERAL PROSECUTORS
IN MANHATTAN TRIED TO GET
PERMISSION LAST FALL FOR A
GIULIANI RAID BUT WERE REBUFFED
BY SENIOR OFFICIALS SERVING
UNDER TRUMP.
LAST JUNE, FOR REASONS STILL
OPAQUE, THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL
BARR OUSTED THE U.S. ATTORNEY
THERE AND TRIED TO HAND PICK A
SUCCESSOR.
IF ANY OF THAT WAS INTENDED TO
PROTECT GIULIANI OR TRUMP
HIMSELF, IT MIGHT END UP
BACKFIRING SPECTACULARLY.
IF A WARRANT HAD BEEN EXECUTED
BEFORE JANUARY 20th, ITS HARD
TO IMAGINE THAT TRUMP WOULDNT
HAVE PARDONED GIULIANI OUT OF
SPITE, SELF-INTEREST, OR BOTH.
AND FRANKLY, THERE WAS SOME
REPORTING THAT IT WAS ON THE
TABLE THAT HE MIGHT HAVE
PARDONED HIMSELF.
WHY DO YOU THINK HE DIDNT?
>> WELL, I STILL THINK THATS
THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP IS
MOTIVATED MOST OF THE TIME BY
HIS EMOTIONS AND ANIMUS.
ITS NOT -- HE IS NOT A
STRATEGIC THINKER, AND I DOUBT
ANY TIME THIS CAME BEFORE HIM
ABOUT HOW TO TREAT GIULIANI HE
WAS TRYING TO WATCH THIS UNSPOOL
INTO THE FUTURE AND WONDER ABOUT
HOW IT MIGHT COME BACK TO HAUNT
HIM.
YOU KNOW, AFTER ALL, HIS
RELATIONSHIP WITH RUDY GOES BACK
DECADES.
IT WAS A MYSTERY TO THOSE OF US
COVERING RUDY AND TRUMP IN NEW
YORK IN THE 1980s WHEN RUDY WAS
THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT WHY HE WASNT
TAKING A CLOSER LOOK BACK THEN
AT ALLEGATIONS OF POSSIBLE MONEY
LAUNDERING AND TRUMPS PROXIMITY
TO MEMBERS OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN
NEW YORK.
IT SORT OF SKATED UNDER THE
RADAR.
IT WAS ATTRIBUTED BACK THEN TO
THE FACT THAT RUDY HAD HIS EYES
ON CITY HALL AND HE KNEW THAT
TRUMP WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT ALLY
IF HE WANTED TO DO THAT ONE DAY.
AND SINCE THEN, RUDY HAS
ESSENTIALLY BEEN A BAGMAN AND A
SORT OF DIRTY OPS OPERATOR FOR
TRUMP, SO HE KNOWS A LOT, AND IT
WAS -- IT IS IN TRUMPS INTEREST
TO KEEP RUDY ON HIS SIDE.
BUT THE ISSUE OF LEGAL FEES IS
INTERESTING BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP
DOESNT EVEN PAY HIS OWN LEGAL
FEES, SO THE IDEA THAT HE WOULD
OPEN UP HIS WALLET TO PAY
SOMEONE ELSES IS BEYOND THE
PALE, AND I THINK IF HE DOES IT
NOW, I DONT THINK ANYONE SHOULD
BE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT
THIS IS PAYING A LEGAL FEE.
IT IS PAYING HUSH MONEY, AND
THATS WHAT IT AMOUNTS TO, AND I
THINK IF THAT BECOMES WITNESS