>>> WE MAY BE ONE STEP CLOSER TO SEEING DONALD TRUMP’S TAX
RETURNS.
RETURNS. NBC NEWS CAN CONFIRM THE
BREAKING REPORT FROM THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" JUST A COUPLE HOURS
AGO THAT STATE PROSECUTORS ARE
AGGRESSIVELY SEEKING DONALD
TRUMP’S TAX RETURNS AND THAT
THEY HAVE ISSUED SUBPOENAS TO
THE PRESIDENT’S ACCOUNTING FIRM
TO GET THEM.
FROM THAT TIMES "REPORT, THE
SUBPOENA OPENS A NEW FRONT IN A
WIDE-RANGING EFFORT TO OBTAIN
COPIES OF THE PRESIDENT’S TAX
RETURNS, WHICH MR. TRUMP
INITIALLY SAID HE’D MAKE PUBLIC
DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN.
BUT HAS SINCE REFUSED TO
DISCLOSE.
DISCLOSE. THE SUBPOENA WAS ISSUED BY THE
MANHATTAN D.A.’S OFFICE LATE
LAST MONSOON AFTER IT OPENED A
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE
ROLE THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS
FAMILY BUSINESS PLAYED IN
HUSH-MONEY PAYMENTS MADE IN THE
RUN-UP TO THE ELECTION.
IT’S THIS CASE THAT RESULTED IN
DONALD TRUMP BEING NAMED
INDIVIDUAL ONE AND ESSENTIALLY
AN UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR.
MICHAEL COHEN’S SENTENCING MEMO
IN THAT CASE IS CRYSTAL CLEAR
SAYING THIS, QUOTE, COHEN
HIMSELF HAS ADMITTED HE ACTED IN
COORDINATION WITH AND AT THE
DIRECTION OF INDIVIDUAL ONE.
JOINING OUR CONVERSATION FORMER
DEPUTY ASSISTANT SOERNG AND HOST
OF "THE TALKING FED’S" PODCAST.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD BY TRUMP
INSIDERS THAT IT IS THIS
CRIMINAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE
INVESTIGATION THAT WAS FIRST RUN
OUT OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF
NEW YORK THAT IS NOW BEING
PURSUED BY STATE PROSECUTORS
THAT HAS ALWAYS REPRESENTED THE
MOST LEGAL PERIL TO INDIVIDUAL
ONE, AKA, DONALD TRUMP.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I THINK WE’VE HEARD THAT PART
BECAUSE OF THE AGGRESSIVENESS OF
THE SDNY.
THE SDNY. BUT EVEN NOW UNDER THE MANHATTAN
D.A. THEY CAN DO A LOT OF DAMAGE
AND THEY’VE LAID A LOT OF
GROUNDWORK FOR A LOT OF
EVIDENCE.
EVIDENCE. NOW COHEN APPEARS TO BE
COOPERATING WITH THEM AS WELL.
SO THIS REALLY DOES OPEN A NEW
FRONT IN THE WHOLE WAR ABOUT
GETTING HIS TAX RECORDS.
NOTICE THEY WOULD STILL BE
SECRET IF THE D.A. GOT THEM.
BUT AS OPPOSED TO THE FEDERAL
CAMPAIGN WHERE THEY’RE TRYING TO
GET THEM FROM THE SECRETARY OF
TREASURY WHO’S RESISTING FOR NO
GOOD REASON, HERE IT’S JUST
GOING TO BE STRAIGHT NEW YORK
STATE, THE SAME RECORDS AND A
PRIVATE ACCOUNTING FIRM THAT HAS
SAID THEY WILL COOPERATE.
THIS REALLY DOES, AS YOU SAY,
MAKE IT A GIANT STEP CLOSER TO
SOMEBODY’S HAVING THEIR HANDS ON
THEM.
THEM. >> AND IT WOULD SEEM THAT ALL OF
THE PUSHBACK AGAINST MICHAEL
COHEN AROUND HIS CREDIBILITY,
FROM THE PRESIDENT’S ALLIES, ALL
THOSE TOOLS IN DONALD TRUMP’S
ARSENAL FADE AWAY WHEN IT’S AN
INVESTIGATION THAT ISN’T PLAYING
OUT IN THE CIRCUS ENVIRONMENT OF
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. >> THAT’S TRUE.
THAT WON’T STOP HIM FROM TELLING
PEOPLE ON HIS TWITTER FEED IT’S
ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND IT’S A
HARASSMENT AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY CAN
TO CONVINCE A PRIVATE FIRM TO,
YOU KNOW, TO NOT COMPLY, AND
IT’LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF
THEY DO.
THEY DO. AND, AGAIN, IT’S TRUE THAT THEY
WILL BE PROTECTED IN THE GRAND
JURY AND IT’S NOT LIKELY THAT
WE’LL SEE THEM.
BUT IT IS -- IT’S ALWAYS BEEN
CLEAR THAT HIS TAX RETURNS ARE
THE HOLY GRAIL AND THAT HE WILL
DO ANYTHING TO KEEP THEM FROM
COMING OUT.
COMING OUT. AND FOR DEMOCRATS, IT’S BEEN A
REAL FRUSTRATION BECAUSE THEY
KNOW -- THEY BELIEVE UNDER THE
STATUTE THEY HAVE THAT THEY
LEGALLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET
THEM BECAUSE THEY WOULD
LEGISLATE, SHOULD THEY LEARN OF
ANY CONFLICTS, TO HOLD HIM TO
THE RUSSIANS EMOLUMENTS
VIOLATIONS THAT THEY COULD THEN
LEGISLATE FOR FUTURE PRESIDENTS,
YOU KNOW, WHAT REQUIREMENTS OF
TRANSPARENCY WOULD PREVENT SUCH
CONFLICTS FOR FUTURE
OFFICEHOLDERS.
OFFICEHOLDERS. BUT THEY’RE CONVINCED ALL ALONG
THAT THEY ARE NOT LIKELY TO GET
THEM BEFORE THE 2020 ELECTION
AND, YOU KNOW, WE’LL SEE WHAT
HAPPENS WITH THIS CASE.
BUT THE PRESIDENT HAS ALWAYS
VALUED KEEPING THESE A SECRET
ABOVE MOST THINGS.
>> YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHEN THE
PRESIDENT SAID TO A GROUP OF
"NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTERS THAT
IF ROBERT MUELLER WENT FOR ANY
OF HIS BUSINESS INFORMATION,
THAT WOULD BE A RED LINE.
TO A.B.’S POINT, THIS HAS ALWAYS
BEEN AMONG THE MOST PROTECTED OF
TRUMP SECRETS.
TRUMP SECRETS. >> YES.
>> YES. SO FAR THEY’VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL.
WHAT’S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS
TWO THINGS.
TWO THINGS. ONE IS THIS IS A REMINDER THAT
THERE IS INVESTIGATION, THERE’S
STILL LEGAL THREATS TO THE
PRESIDENT THAT ARE WELL OUTSIDE
OF CONGRESS, WHICH HAS KIND OF
BECOME A BIT OF -- THEY JUST
DON’T SEEM TO HAVE THEIR ACT
TOGETHER IN TERMS OF
INVESTIGATING THE PRESIDENT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE TO
GET HIS TAX RETURNS, WHICH IT
LOOKS LIKE THE PRESIDENT’S
LAWYERS ARE GOING TO BE
SUCCESSFUL IN DELAYING THAT, AND
IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOR THE
2020, THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE A
REALLY BIG DEAL.
NOW AT THE SAME TIME THIS
INVESTIGATION ISN’T GOING TO
REVEAL THEM EITHER UNLESS THEY
INTRODUCE THEM IN SOME SORT OF
TRIAL.
TRIAL. SO THEY’RE STILL, IF YOU’RE
TRUMP, YOU’RE STILL WINNING IN
THAT SENSE BECAUSE THE
LIKELIHOOD OF HIS TAX RETURNS
BEING DISCLOSED JUST SEEMS
INCREASINGLY LOW.
INCREASINGLY LOW. AT THE SAME TIME WE DON’T KNOW
WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT RED LINE
BECAUSE HE’S, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
ARE CROSSING IT.
THEY’RE GOING AFTER HIS TAX
RETURNS.
RETURNS. >> THE CASE WHERE HE WAS NAMED
AN INDIVIDUAL ON THE CASE THAT
MICHAEL COHEN IS IN JAIL FOR IN
PART, CAMPAIGN FINANCE
VIOLATIONS.
VIOLATIONS. THIS SEEMED TO ME IF THERE WAS
AN APPETITE IN CONGRESS THAT
THEY SEEMED TO BE DOING NOW ON
EVEN DAYS.
EVEN DAYS. ON ODD DAYS THEY CALL IT
SOMETHING ELSE.
SOMETHING ELSE. BUT THIS WOULD SEEM THE MOST
DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS
ELECTION.
ELECTION. BASICALLY DONALD TRUMP DEFRAUDED
THE VOTERS THAT BY PARTICIPATING
IN A LEGAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE
SCHEME THAT WAS DIRECTLY RELATED
TO TELLING VOTERS A LIE ABOUT
HIS PERSONAL SEXUAL
RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE HIS
ELECTIONS.
ELECTIONS. WHY ISN’T THIS ISSUE FRONT AND
CENTER?
CENTER? WHY IS IT ONE AMONG SIX FOR THE
HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE?
>> IT IS FRONT AND CENTER FOR
MANY MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. WHEN I SIT DOWN AND TALK
PRIVATELY WITH HOUSE DEMOCRATS,
THEY ARE FRUSTRATED IN A SENSE
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE ON THE
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION WAS MOVING
FORWARD AT A RAPID PACE.
THEN THE MUELLER REPORT ENDED UP
IN THE EYES OF MANY PEOPLE
DEFINING THE ISSUE RATHER THAN
THE HOUSE COMMITTEE.
THE HOUSE COMMITTEE NOW ON THESE
ISSUES IS DOING ITS OWN PROBE.
BUT AGAIN IT’S THE MANHATTAN
D.A.
D.A. IT’S OTHER INVESTIGATORS WHO ARE
TAKING THE LEAD.
SO THEY’RE SITTING THERE ON
CAPITOL HILL, THESE ELECTED
LAWMAKERS SAYING THEY ARE TRYING
TO PURSUE THESE INVESTIGATIONS
BUT THEY ARE WAITING FOR THESE
PEOPLE IN NEW YORK TO FINISH THE
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD.
NOW THAT’S WHY SPEAKER PELOSI
KEEPS TELLING THEM PRIVATELY AND
PUBLICLY BUILD A WHOLESALE CASE
AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM
DUNEBAG AND HIS PROPERTIES TO
HIS PERSONAL FINANCES.
BUILD A WHOLE CASE THAT ALSO
INVOLVES THE RUSSIA ACTIVITY AND
THEN MAKE THE CASE TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE.
AMERICAN PEOPLE. BUT IT’S TOUGH FOR A LOT OF
THESE LAWMAKERS BECAUSE THEY’RE
NOT SITTING THERE.
>> IS THAT THE RIGHT STRATEGY?
MUELLER BUILT A WHOLE CASE.
>> IT WAS IN A BOOK THIS BIG.
NOBODY READ IT.
>>.
>>. >> THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A
SMOKING GUN.
SMOKING GUN. BUT THEY ALSO HAVE SOME
HESITATION.
HESITATION. IS THIS THE EMPHASIS FOR 2020 OR
NOT?
NOT? SHOULD IMPEACHMENT BE THE RALLY
CRY OR SHOULD THEY RUN ON HEALTH
CARE AND THE ECONOMY?
AND THERE’S A REAL TENSION
WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
THEY ALL WANT TO SEE PRESIDENT
TRUMP REMOVED FROM OFFICE.
SOME WANT TO DO IT TOMORROW
THROUGH ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT.
OTHERS SAY HE’S BEATABLE IN
2020.