- Hello, I'm Michele Norris.
Welcome to the Washington Week Extra,
where we pick up online where we left off on air.
Donald Trump started the week criticising
airplane maker Boeing,
which has a contract to replace
two presidential planes with updated models.
And we should mention here
that Boeing is an underwriter for Washington Week.
Donald Trump tweeted that the orders
should be canceled because the costs
were out of control.
Citing a four billion dollar price tag.
Boeing says its current contract is
for 170 million dollars.
Now Air Force One is not your ordinary jetliner,
this is not your ordinary contract.
What is it that Donald Trump is upset about?
Is it just the price tag,
or is there something else behind this?
- I think there's much more behind that.
I mean, that was another example of why
was he tweeting about Air Force One
and the cost of that on Tuesday morning?
What else was going on?
Well one of the things going on
was all the conversation about
General Michael Flynn who you mentioned
on the broadcast.
His son in particular, about spreading
fake news and lies and other things.
He was involved in the,
the official capacity of the transition.
Many people believe that Donald Trump
was trying to change the subject
and was talking about Boeing.
But what he was doing was trying
to send a signal to companies
that he can do this.
He plans to call people out
and it's a very popular thing to do.
He's fighting for the taxpayer,
he's saying I'm going to get a cheaper deal,
other things here.
But it caused alarm in boardrooms across the country
and at Boeing in particular.
And then the CEO the next day had a conversation
with him, and they were like,
look, we can lower the price on this
if you sort of change the specifications on this.
So it's,
it was not though just about Air Force One,
it was about so much more.
About he intends, the President-Elect and President
at least as of now, intends to call
out CEOs individually.
That has never happened before.
- And he has been doing this.
He noted in your piece that he's going
to have a series of these calls, five minutes each,
but he's already been doing this,
on a regular basis. - Yeah, you know and I think
the thing to understand about a lot of these tweets,
the flag tweet, the Boeing tweet, the carrier
event.
Even him claiming that there were three million
people who voted illegally in the election.
He did this during the campaign
but the strategy behind it,
is that the controversy that follows,
and often it's a controversy that's
about him saying things that aren't true.
So it's a, you know it's a real controversy.
Or it's, you know, we don't know that
the four billion dollar figure for Boeing,
for instance, we don't know where that came from.
But it's a controversy that always posits him
as the guy fighting for the little guy
against the elites.
Including the media, including the big corporations
and that's the narrative he wants.
And I think every morning he wakes up,
or many mornings he wakes up
and he sees another opportunity
where he can sort of grab the whole cable news day.
All the chatter.
And get them talking,
sometimes in outrage, sometimes in confusion.
But set this dynamic where
he is on the side, in this case, of the taxpayers
against you know, a big awful corporation
who is ripping them off.
Or he is on the side of
freedom loving Americans against flag burners.
Or he's on the side of
his voters against, you know the fraudulent others
who may have voted.
- Now this is an obvious departure
from communications protocol at the White House,
or even from a President-Elect.
But how
does a message traditionally
leave the White House and get disseminated in the public?
There are all kinds of filters out there now.
- Well the modern presidency has changed that a lot.
President Obama felt that he
was really taking it technologically
in a different direction and we've
seen President Obama try to reach out
to his supporters or to send a message using,
you know,
finding your audience where they live, right?
And so President Obama did that,
before him, President Bush.
The internet didn't exist quite the same way
for Bill Clinton but very much similar.
What's interesting though is that
you have, you know Donald Trump
hasn't quite come around,
and as, if Jeff is right, he may never come around
to this idea that this isn't decorum.
This isn't what you do,
that your message has consequences beyond
what it is you're intending
and you have to be really careful.
Or that that's why you hire really smart people
at the White House and have your tech,
you know, team to help you do this, right?
But Donald Trump, he said he's continued
to do at the White House press corps.
I think he's made it clear that
his supporters are not big fans of the media.
And he may try to use, continue to use
the media as foils.
I would imagine we're all girding for that,
those of us in Washington who cover politics,
we're expecting that.
And he's gonna just have to mix it up
and you know, find out what works for him.
Every president that I've covered,
gets a little closer to state run media
because the technology lets them do it.
So we'll see.
- And when you say state run media,
what do you mean by that?
- I mean that Donald Trump likes the,
the propaganda.
The showmanship, the spin.
Whether the facts are there to support it or not.
As President,
that's a different equation than for a candidate.
And so we're gonna see whether the tools
that come to him in the presidency,
that he then absorbs,
are utilized to do what he did in a campaign
to tell a story.
Or whether it is utilized to try to propel
his initiatives based on
facts or the dynamics of what he's doing in Congress.
Or to propel his,
his agenda actually forward in the environment
in which you have to succeed.
- And another example of where he is rewriting
a presidential playbook is in his communication
with foreign leaders.
Which is also very, normally very prescribed.
There are set people in the room,
there's a briefing book that you will receive
to tell you where you, you know,
what you can talk about, what you shouldn't talk about.
Could you tell us a little about that,
and the departure that we're seeing with Donald Trump?
- So, Trump is just
breaking all the rules of how a President-Elect
or a President communicates with foreign leaders.
I mean typically
if a President-Elect talks to foreign leaders
he would rely on the advice
of State Department career diplomats
who will give him some guidance.
Or at least just play it extremely safe.
When a President makes a call to a foreign leader,
he will actually be given a binder
or a folder with a psychological profile
of that leader that is
drawn from open source and even from
the U.S. Intelligence saying
this is the mood he's in,
he's maybe even having a fight with his mistress.
I mean really personal stuff.
Here's where his, what's happening with his kids.
Here's the kind of small talk you can make.
He's gonna press you on this.
You know, don't give any ground,
remember we're remaining ambiguous
on this thing we're in an argument about.
So it is extremely choreographed.
Trump is hopping on the phone with these people,
there seems to be no contact with
the State Department.
No request for any guidance from them.
He's not the President yet, he's the President-Elect,
so maybe the standard is a little lower.
But he's not meeting any kind of standard
that career diplomats would like to see him meet.
And so what we have is him
you know, seeming to make policy
maybe by accident.
Or nobody really knows what he means
in some of these calls.
He told the Prime Minister of Pakistan
he would love to come and personally help
them solve any problems.
And that caused all kinds of
consternation in India
because those two countries have a,
have disputes that they don't want an American,
the Indians don't want an American president
involved in.
He field this call from the President of Taiwan,
which broke 35 years of diplomatic precedent.
Not clear whether that was
rigged up by lobbyists,
whether it happened sort of by accident,
somewhere in between.
But the bottom line on all this is
he's kind of flying without
a manual here and the diplomatic world
is frankly appalled.
But, Donald Trump does things his own way
and we'll see how it works out
once he's inaugurated.
- Jeff there is a lot of consternation
and clutching of pearls about some
of these breaks from protocol,
but is he doing in some cases
things that other presidents wish they could have done
and he's just sort of pushing
the boundary a little bit further?
- I think perhaps.
Because he, his whole role as a,
he came to the stance as an outsider.
He touted himself as that,
he promoted himself as that.
But he also, I think one thing to keep in mind,
as we all like learn much,
a lot about him.
He said one line the other night,
in North Carolina, that stuck with me.
He said the script for what's to come
has not yet been written,
and I think that's actually true.
I think he will unfold and
develop in front of our eyes. - But that could be said about
anything, right? I mean, - It could
- The future is always written in pencil.
- And that's what worries some Republicans though
and it, you know, obviously worries some Democrats.
But look, I think he is going to break some china.
But he also wants to be liked.
He desperately wants to be liked by
people, and I think he does want to
sort of change some minds.
So we'll see
how he does that.
He's doing all these thank you
tours across the country,
but so far just to his own supporters.
So I think it'll be interesting
to see how he uses the bully pulpit
to sell his agenda when his supporters
may disagree with him and I think they will
on several things.
So, an interesting
hundred days, first hundred days to come.
- Does he want to be liked in Washington?
Is he making the same kind of overtures to
Republicans on Capitol Hill?
To Democrats also in Washington
that he's making on the,
on his victory tour?
Is he extending an open hand?
- I think he will be incredibly friendly
with Chuck Schumer when they sit down to meet.
But so far it hasn't been a priority of
his time as President-Elect.
I think
- [Michele] And what about Republicans who
are somewhat uncomfortable with some of the
- Well he, - roots he's making.
For instance that - He met with
the speaker today in New York. - Yeah.
- Right.
But, and what he says is they love me now.
But there's always the threat there, right?
- Sure. - There's always the threat.
And I think, I think Jeff's right,
I think he wants to
find opportunities to continue to scramble
the political definitions that define this town.
He sees that as his advantage,
his ability to do that.
I think the first big test next year,
- So being unpredictable is - Right.
- In his toolbox. - And forcing Republicans
out of their comfort zone, forcing Democrats
out of their comfort zone.
I think we will see, even though his cabinet picks
suggest a very conservative administration
of the government.
I think we will see proposals from him next year
with regards to infrastructure.
Maybe with regards with how they handle the debt.
The Republicans will be furious about it,
but will be kind of forced to go along with,
or at least pressured to go along with.
And the Democrats might find they're surprisingly
happy about.
And I think he sees that,
that idea that it's not left and right,
it's I'm with the people against the elites
as the defining dynamic he wants to establish.
And if he can do that by scrambling
the parties, he will.
- How important is diversity or inclusion
to Donald Trump?
The past few administrations, both Democrat
and Republican, there's been an attempt
to create a cabinet that looks somewhat like America.
- You know, it's an interesting question
but I think,
in some ways Donald Trump is a kind of
a captive of an era that a 70 year old
is used to.
And so,
as Jeff was saying,
he's looking around at his cabinet table
and thinking strong men.
These are winners, these are real winners
in a terrain that I know.
Business, or finance, or New York, or whatever.
These other departments and agencies
where we have seen women,
it's not to say these are not accomplished,
smart, and you know, strong women.
They just don't happen all of them,
Linda McMahon is an exception,
to be women that he's known very well.
And so he's been introduced in some other ways
to these women.
And he will probably will see a few more of those
get appointed to jobs around the cabinet.
The White House staff,
that is a big open question.
You know, obviously, he has a woman
as a campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway.
- [Michele] But who has signaled that she doesn't want
to work at the White House.
- And she does not want to work in the White House
and she said something really retro like,
you know, with children,
who would have children in the White House?
Which is kind of funny, cause there's a lot
of women with children. - Yeah.
So we have yet to see,
we know in business he relied on strong women
but we have yet to see in his government whether
- On the issue I track on Secretary of State,
I think there have been about 10
candidates who have either come to Trump Tower,
or had their names repeatedly appear
in the media.
Every single one is a white male,
and I'm pretty sure they're all over the age of 60.
It's pretty remarkable when you consider
recent track record of Secretary of States.
Before John Kerry, you had Hillary Clinton,
Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell,
- Madeleine Albright. - Madeleine Albright.
No longer are white man's job looks like
it's going to be again under Trump.
- Right.
Well thank you everyone.
While you're online, test your news knowledge
on the Washington Weekly News quiz.
Until next time, I'm Michele Norris.
(serious, dramatic music)