HE’S THE AUTHOR OF THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" BEST SELLING BOOK "WHERE
THE LAW ENDS: INSIDE THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION."
DAVID, TAKE ME THROUGH YOUR
REPORTING AND WHAT IT ADDS TO
THE BIGGER PICTURE.
>> YOU PROBABLY KNOW THAT THE
TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND PRESIDENT
TRUMP ARE FACING TWO PRETTY
SIGNIFICANT STATE LEVEL
INVESTIGATIONS, ONE FROM THE
MANHATTAN DA AND ONE FROM THE
NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THESE AREN’T THINGS THAT ARE
GOING TO GET ANYBODY ARRESTED
BEFORE ELECTION DAY BUT IF TRUMP
LOSES OR EVEN IF HE WINS,
THEY’LL BE HEADACHES NEXT YEAR
AND IT GIVES YOU MORE OF A SENSE
OF WHAT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION
LOOKED LIKE BEFORE TRUMP WENT
INTO OFFICE.
WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE
NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS
FOCUSING ON THIS KIND OF OBSCURE
PIECE OF TRUMP’S PORTFOLIO, THIS
SEVEN SPRINGS MANSION OUTSIDE OF
NEW YORK CITY.
HE RARELY EVEN GOES THERE SO WHY
IS IT AT THE CENTER OF THIS BIG
STATE INVESTIGATION.
THE REASON IS $21 MILLION.
TRUMP GOT A $21 MILLION TAX
BREAK FOR SAYING HE WOULD
CONSERVE LAND ON THAT PROPERTY
AND THE REASON HE GOT SUCH A BIG
TAX BREAK IS HE SAID THE LAND
WAS REALLY VALUABLE, HAD LOTS OF
DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.
TURNS OUT HE MISLED -- HE
APPEARS TO HAVE MISLED PEOPLE
ABOUT HOW MUCH DEVELOPMENT
RIGHTS HE HAD.
HE APPLIED TO BUILD HOUSES BUT
DIDN’T SUCCEED, YET HE WAS STILL
CLAIMING CREDIT FOR THEM,
INFLATING THE VALUE OF THE
PROPERTY.
>> ANDREW, IT REMINDS ME OF THE
CONVERSATION YOU AND I HAD JUST
ABOUT HOW LEVERAGED HE IS WHEN
THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF THE
"NEW YORK TIMES" TAX EVASION
INVESTIGATION CAME OUT.
YOU WRITE IN YOUR BOOK -- THIS
IS THE PART THAT STAYS WITH ME.
IN THE END WE FOUND IN THE AREAS
IN WHICH WE CHOSE TO LOOK,
PARTICULARLY IN THE ONE RUSSIAN
FINANCIAL DEAL WE EXAMINED AS A
RESULT OF COHEN’S COOPERATION
LEFT ME WITH A DEEPLY
UNSATISFYING FEELING ABOUT WHAT
ELSE WAS OUT THERE THAT WE DID
NOT EXAMINE.
ONE OF MY STRENGTHS AND
SIMULTANEOUSLY ONE OF MY FLAWS
AS AN INVESTIGATOR IS A DESIRE
TO TURN OVER EVERY ROCK, GO DOWN
EVERY RABBIT HOLE, TRY TO MASTER
EVERY DETAIL.
IN THIS INVESTIGATION THAT
TENACITY WAS AS MUCH AN ASSET AS
A CURSE, THE INABILITY TO CHASE
DOWN ALL FINANCIAL LEADS OR TO
EXAMINE ALL CRIMES GNAWED AT ME
AND STILL DOES.
I THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU WROTE
THERE WHEN I READ ALL THOSE
STORIES AS A POTENTIAL NEW PLACE
WHERE TRUMP WHO IS BY EVERY
STANDARD A RICH MAN BUT HE SEEMS
IN ALL OF THESE REVELATIONS LIKE
HE WAS ALWAYS NEEDING HELP FROM
SOMEONE ABOUT BEING
OVERLEVERAGED.
>> TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT DAVID
SAID, I THINK THAT THE
PRESIDENT, IF HE IS NOT
RE-ELECTED, IS GOING TO BE VERY
BUSY.
I THINK THERE ARE THREE BUCKETS
OF THINGS HE HAS TO WORRY ABOUT.
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL THERE WILL
BE THE DECISION OF THE NEW
ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHETHER HE
SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE FOR THE
MATTERS RELATING TO THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL INVESTIGATION, AND I
THINK WE MAY SEE THE PRESIDENT
DO SOMETHING WE’VE NEVER SEEN
ANY PRESIDENT DO WHICH IS TRY TO
SELF-PARDON, BUT THAT WILL AT
LEAST DELAY ANY SORT OF FEDERAL
DECISION.
AT THE STATE LEVEL YOU HAVE A
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IN THE
MANHATTAN DA’S OFFICE AND THAT
LOOKS LIKE TO BE A CLASSIC
FOLLOW THE MONEY INVESTIGATION,
REMINDS ME VERY MUCH OF WHAT WE
DID WITH PAUL MANAFORT.
THEY’RE CLEARLY GOING AFTER JUST
THE RIGHT THINGS WHICH IS THEY
NEED THE INTERNAL ACCOUNTING
DOCUMENTS.
THAT’S A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
THEN AS DAVID POINTED OUT, THE
LETITIA JAMES ATTORNEY GENERAL
INVESTIGATION, THAT IS CURRENTLY
A CIVIL INVESTIGATION AND IT MAY
OR MAY NOT PROCEED BUT IT’S
IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT A CIVIL
INVESTIGATION AT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL LEVEL CAN TURN INTO A
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IF THEY
FIND SUFFICIENT PROOF AND CAN
PROVE INTENT.
WHAT DAVID TALKED ABOUT IS ONE
OF AT LEAST FOUR TRANSACTIONS
WORTH HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS THAT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL IN NEW YORK IS LOOKING
AT.
SO THIS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO BE
QUITE BUSY AND OBVIOUSLY I
SHOULD PROBABLY POINT OUT, THE
PRESIDENT CANNOT PARDON HIS WAY
OUT OF STATE INVESTIGATIONS,
WHETHER THEY ARE CIVIL OR
CRIMINAL.
>> DAVID, CAN YOU PUT SOME
BROADER CONTEXT AROUND THAT.
THERE’S NEVER A REVELATION THAT
SAYS DONALD TRUMP DID X, Y OR Z
BY THE BOOK.
THERE’S NEVER A BUSINESS DEAL
THAT WHEN UNDER SCRUTINY SAYS
THIS WAS A MODEL FOR HOW TO BUY
A CASINO IN ATLANTIC CITY OR
THIS WAS A MODEL FOR HOW TO TAKE
MONEY OUT OF YOUR BUSINESSES AND
INVESTIGATE IN THE CAMPAIGN.
THERE’S NOT A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF
ANY OF THAT.
IT SAYS, ONE, HE’S SHADY, TWO,
HE DIDN’T THINK HE WAS GOING TO
WIN, AND THREE, SHOULD HE LOSE,
HE FACES A LOT OF LEGAL
EXPOSURE.
>> I THINK THAT’S RIGHT.
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION BEFORE HE
GOT INTO POLITICS WAS NOT THAT
BIG OF A COMPANY.
HE HAD THIS SORT OF FAMOUS NAME
BUT IT WAS NOT THAT BIG OF AN
ENTERPRISE AND HE ALSO WAS VERY
DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH.
A LOT OF FOLKS I THINK JUST
DIDN’T BOTHER TRYING TO DIG INTO
HIS BUSINESSES.
THERE WAS ONE NOTABLE EXCEPTION
WHICH WAS THE TRUMP UNIVERSITY
INVESTIGATION WHICH TRUMP FOUGHT
TOOTH AND NAIL, ENDED UP HAVING
TO SETTLE FOR $25 MILLION.
THE MOST CONSTRUCTIVE CASE STUDY
IS THE TRUMP FOUNDATION, THE
SMALL CHARITY THAT TRUMP RAN.
I WROTE ABOUT IT IN 2016.
IT HAD BEEN GOING ON FOREVER AND
BREAKING THE LAW FOREVER.
THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH MONEY, NOT
ENOUGH WHATEVER FOR PEOPLE TO
DIG INTO IT.
ONCE THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY
GENERAL DUG INTO IT, THEY FIND
ALL KINDS OF BLATANT VIOLATIONS
OF THE LAW.
TO ME IT WAS THE SAME EXECUTIVES
AT TRUMP’S ORGANIZATION AND THE
SAME ACCOUNTANTS THAT HANDLED
ALL OF TRUMP’S OTHER FINANCIAL
DEALINGS AT HIS COMPANY.
IF THOSE PEOPLE CAN SCREW UP ON
THAT SCALE AND BREAK THE LAW
THAT MANY TIMES ON THE TRUMP
FOUNDATION, IT DOESN’T BODE WELL
FOR THEIR ABILITY TO WITHSTAND
THE SCRUTINY OF A NEW YORK D.A.
AND A.G. AT THE SAME TIME.
>> ANDREW, IT DOESN’T BODE WELL
FOR THE COUNTRY THAT HE LEESDSAD
BECAUSE IT WOULD APPEAR BASED ON
WHAT WE KNOW THAT HE IMPORTED A
LOT OF THOSE GUIDING PRINCIPLES
TO THE PRESIDENCY.
I’M NOT GOING TO LET YOU LEAVE
THOUGH WITHOUT PRESSING YOU ON
WHAT YOU SAID IN YOUR LAST
ANSWER.
YOU COULD IMAGINE HIM
SELF-PARDONING.
DO TELL.
>> THERE’S NO QUESTION THAT THE
CONSTITUTION HAS CONFERRED ON
THE PRESIDENT THE POWER TO
PARDON AND IT’S INCREDIBLY
BROAD.
EVEN THOUGH LOTS OF PEOPLE THINK
IT CAN BE ABUSED, BUT NO
PRESIDENT HAS EVER TRIED TO
ACTUALLY PARDON HIMSELF.
YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS PRESIDENT
SAYING WHY NOT GIVE IT A TRY?
WHAT’S THE DOWNSIDE?
THE DOWNSIDE IS IT ISN’T WORK.
>> YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
>> THE SUPREME COURT SAYS, YOU
CAN’T.
SO WHAT, HE’S BACK IN THE SAME
PLACE THAT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN
EXCEPT IT BRINGS HIM DELAY.
WHY NOT TRY IT?
I DO EXPECT IF HE’S NOT
RE-ELECTED THAT THAT’S SOMETHING
WE WILL SEE HIM TRY.
>> I JUST HAVE TO PRESS YOU ON
THIS.
DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE LIKE
A PROPHYLACTIC PROTECTION FROM
CHANGES BEING BROUGHT?
CAN YOU PARDON YOURSELF BEFORE
YOU’VE BEEN CHARGED?
>> YES, YOU CAN.
LEAVING THE PART ABOUT
SELF-PARDONING BUT CAN YOU
PARDON SOMEBODY WHO HAS NOT BEEN
CHARGED, YEAH.
LOOK AT GERALD FORD WITH RESPECT
TO RICHARD NIXON.
YOU CAN IN THIS COUNTRY DO THAT.
THERE’S DEBATES IN OTHER
COUNTRIES THAT HAVE THE PARDON
POWER WHETHER YOU CAN DO IT BUT
HERE IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO