How you doing, my brother?
I'm great.
Big CEO energy.
Always. Got to have that.
Yeah, man.
Let me read some of these stats, man.
Klutch Sports negotiated $900 million worth of contracts
this summer.
You got $4 billion in contracts total.
You've got a performance sportswear brand and
partnership with New Balance.
And Lucky Me is now a New York Times bestseller, man.
Amazing.
But when you going to learn how to spell Klutch?
That is how you spell clutch.
K-L-U-T-C-H?
Yes.
Knowledge, Longevity, Understanding, Trust,
Communication, and Honesty.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK.
That's a good-- that's good.
How'd you come up with that?
You know, when I was thinking about the company and the name
for the company, what you need to be in sports,
you need to have that clutch gene and be clutch.
But then I also flipped it and said
you actually needed to be in life, you needed to be clutch.
Now, with my partnership with New Balance,
it's a little twist to it because the new athlete is
all of you guys are athletes.
You're an athlete.
Your wife is an athlete.
And so, from that perspective, it's
aiming across the humanity of the athlete and also
just the regular person who happens
to cover the field every day and what they
do in their life every day.
What do you mean when you say we're athletes?
You cover the ground.
You work.
You did The Breakfast Club this morning.
You're on The Daily Show, et cetera.
You know, your wife covers the ground
when she's at home making sure things
are what needs to take place.
What the hell you know about my wife, Rich?
I hear you-- because I hear you
talk about her all the time-- CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Oh, OK.
--in a very positive way. I don't know her.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: All right.
I'm just telling you.
But that person is, kindness never hurts.
Love is never wasted.
Unity starts with you.
Trust makes it possible.
Community is a mentality.
And honesty keeps it real.
Damn.
Yeah.
When did you start making acronyms, man?
- I'm a writer on the low. - OK.
Yeah.
Now, you say you honed your dealmaking instincts by
winning dice games as a kid.
You know, if you read Lucky Me-- great read, you should--
you'll know that.
But have you changed since then?
Are you still a gambler, you know,
with a better credit line?
You know, it's a different type of gamble.
I mean, I think, growing up, I did what I had to do, right?
And it was a sport.
It was actually my sport, gambling was.
Today, not so much, as it pertains
to in those environments and situations like that.
But I think every day getting up, taking risks.
Today, they are calculated risks
that I take, come from a place of strategy and a lot
of preparation.
But yeah, I still take the same risks.
What's the last big gamble you took, you think?
The last big gamble I took, I would probably say,
I bet on myself to start Klutch.
That was a big gamble.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, you've been vocal about--
you've been vocal about no Black agents helping you
when you entered the industry.
You said they went to families and talked bad about you.
Did you get flak for those statements?
I got-- you know, I didn't really get flak.
I got some people a little, you know, upset about the--
because the thing is, what I meant by that
is, we have to have a better understanding
of our positioning and our work practice, right?
And there's a way to do things, right?
And it's all in competition, and it's all--
I love to compete.
But then, when you do it from a place of malice,
then that changes the landscape of things.
And I just don't think that has to be the case.
But it's been the case prior to.
And I wasn't shining a light on whether Black or white agents.
Because I can honestly say no agents, regardless
of what color they were.
But for me, when you read the book, I don't come from that.
The game was given.
And even in competition, I learned by losing.
When I was gambling, I became a great gambler
because I lost my way to being a great gambler,
not because of anything more than that.
And so I understand how to take--
there's wins and losses at times.
But it was a little bit different,
in terms of the integrity.
And based upon their intent, it was just something
that I have a tremendous lack of respect for because,
where I come from, those consequences
was a little different for us.
And we don't get those second and third chances,
especially being young and Black in America.
So in the book, you know, you had to deal with, like,
real killers in the streets.
Oh, absolutely, on an everyday basis.
So who's more cutthroat, these agents--
Yeah.
--in this business or the killers in the street?
You can't see them coming.
You know, they'll smile in your face,
and then they have the conversation with parents.
But I've elevated above that today.
I wake up every day looking for companies to buy.
So I'm not even in competition with them, per se.
And I still recruit when and how I want to.
And I built a business to where we recruit across the board.
But I just think it needs to be--
I have a platform where I can actually shine a light on it.
Yeah.
And again, like I'll give you a prime example.
I had a call.
A gentleman called me, was in a situation.
Now, prior to him calling me, his representation
basically tried to poach one of my players.
Smiled in my face, seen me at games, et cetera.
Oh, OK, OK, fine, nothing happened.
But when the shoe was on the other foot,
I didn't do the same to them.
I even said to him, I said, look,
I'm not trying to overstep my boundaries.
I'm willing to help you and help
your representation help you because that's
who I am as a person.
So just bringing a different integrity
to the space because just because something
used to be a certain way and is a certain way today,
that doesn't mean it has to remain that way.
Why give him that courtesy if he
wasn't going to give you that?
That's just how I was raised.
Yeah.
My mom and dad never raised me to--
[applause]
I feel you.
I want to ask you about somebody, man.
Duane Martin-- you know Duane Martin,
great friend, confidant--
I do know Duane Martin, yeah.
Yeah, great friend, confidant to Will and Jada.
He had a lot of successes as an agent.
He's a big advocate of yours. - He can really hoop too.
He can really hoop.
Above the Rim was not just a movie.
No. Yeah, he can play.
You know, and he's a big advocate of yours.
He told me he gave you advice to leave CAA immediately
because you are your father, and
your father had his own story.
Any truth to that?
I mean, he wouldn't say it if it wasn't some truth to it.
I mean, there was a ton of people
that, when I ran across the idea what I was going to do,
told me, yeah, you should definitely do that,
based upon them knowing me.
So I can't sit here and say it's not any truth to that.
He didn't give me the idea to leave, that's for sure.
But through our conversations, he's
always been supportive of me.
And I appreciate that.
Now, you're one of the few sports agents
that people know by name, right?
Does that level of fame enable or hinder
your ability to do your job?
Like, who gets the better table, you or Drew Rosenhaus,
when y'all out?
[laughs] I don't think I eat at the restaurants
Drew Rosenhaus-- - God damn, Rich.
You too rich, man.
Jesus Christ.
No offense to Drew.
He lives in Miami.
Like, he-- there's a different taste bud there.
But does it help you or hurt you that you're, you know,
a notable figure?
I think-- oh, the notable figure
perspective probably helps.
But what helps me even more is how I treat people
while being a notable figure.
I think that helps even more.
OK.
What does a sports agent actually do?
A number of things.
We know they exist, right?
But what they--
our-- 90% of the business is, you're in client services.
That's 90% of the business.
But it's layered.
You know, everything from negotiating contracts,
developing players both on and off the floor,
working with their families, marketing, you know,
shoe deals and things like that.
Really, I like to lead from a place of education.
So how do I better educate the player and the family
because I don't know how long this person is
going to play the game, right?
So you can't count your eggs before they hatch,
and you can't only look at them as a talent.
So I kind of go about it a little bit different way.
But I also have the capabilities and the ability
to do so because I don't really have nobody beating down
my back, in terms of I have to do something
and you have to reach this quota, et cetera.
So I say that in all fairness because everyone might
not have the same, I would say, flexibility as I have, per se.
Do you help with marketing and promotional ideas
for your athletes? - All the time.
Like, do you look at something
and say, oh, this would be good for AD,
or this would be good for Bron? - Yeah.
Yeah, all the time.
I mean, you know, I'm a creative at heart,
so I like to come up with things.
And also, what is marketing like?
So if you talk to me about-- and most
families don't know this.
When you talk to me about marketing,
you'll say, oh, I see a company get a deal done.
That's marketing. That's not marketing.
That's an endorsement.
Marketing, in most cases, is storytelling, so
what narrative you want out there,
what picture you're trying to paint.
The best marketers in the world,
they never show you a price or anything.
I've said this before.
They tell you a story, then you go out and buy that product.
Different than when you're looking
to buy a car commercial.
They show you the car.
They show you the price, depending on which one
you get, the LE or the SE, et cetera.
It's a difference between the two.
So the issue we have right now with NIL is everyone's
looking at it as a cash grab.
And we're going to get rich tomorrow.
- It's not? - No, it's not.
Because when you really think about it, NIL, it's necessary,
but it's important for it to be managed and controlled.
And the most important--
the number one step should be education.
There's a lot of kids getting NIL deals,
they're not paying taxes. CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Oh.
So you look up-- yeah.
I mean, they don't understand that aspect.
Yeah.
They're not going to have no student loan debt,
but they're going to be in debt with the IRS.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
So when you look at it from that perspective,
and they're coming into it, and the family's coming into it
saying, how much money are we going
to make, a lot of those numbers are very falsified numbers.
And if you just-- it's just common sense.
If you're going to spend six months at a university,
and you have a partnership from NIL,
what's the actual ROI from that company in six months?
Not much.
So I tell my guys, if you're a pro,
why are you focusing on NIL when you're
going to a place that can pay you more money than any brand
ever? CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Damn.
It's not even possible.
So you against NIL deals?
I'm not against it because I expedited NIL.
The deal I did with Darius Bazley
for New Balance, a million dollar internship,
was NIL before NIL.
I did that.
But I'm just for the right positioning for NIL,
where it doesn't have kids jumping around
from school to school and making decisions
based upon the money.
It's a bad habit to build when you start
moving based upon finance.
That's a very bad habit to build.
Now, I saw you recently on Club Shay Shay.
- It was fun. - Yeah.
Yeah, you was on there lying.
- I did not lie. - You were on there lying.
- I did not lie. - Roll the clip.
Roll the clip. I will say this.
Now, laugh if you want to.
I'm one of the best shooters though,
even still to this day.
And I'd take my chance.
If I was in the 1 of 450, I'd be at the top.
It's guys like me, Steph, Klay.
Klay who?
Klay Thompson.
Who else it's going to be?
Dame--
Steph?
This man talk about he shoot like--
If you're talking-- if you're just talking shooting,
this is the class I'm in.
Who was a bigger liar, you or LeBron?
[laughter]
Well, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
First of all, I'm not lying.
As a friend of mine, Charlamagne,
you shouldn't say that on national TV because I'm not--
I have no proof to back up you can shoot like Steph.
That's why you should not say I'm lying.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: [laughs]
Here's the point-- here's the point I'm trying to make.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK.
He asked a specific question.
I gave a specific answer.
And the key word-- if this was a word problem,
Shannon would have failed.
He would have got it wrong. CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK.
Shooting.
I didn't say "playing."
I didn't say "accolades."
I said "shooting."
So the point I'm trying to make is,
if you want to shoot jump shots with me, you have to be a pro.
So a game of HORSE.
[laughter]
No, meaning we put five spots on the court.
From each spot, in order to beat me,
you have to be 8 out of 10 from each spot.
To beat me, to pretty much tie me,
if I'm shooting it really well.
What have you done to prove this, Rich?
Where's the tape?
There's got to be some tape or something.
Do you want some names you can call?
I don't-- who?
Call Kevin Hart.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK, I can call Kevin.
No, no.
Call Drake.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I can't call Drake.
Oh, you-- no, no, don't call Drake.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I can't call Drake.
You're the last person to call Drake.
[laughter]
Call Kevin Durant.
That's the first athlete you named, by the way.
But I'm not-- but wait a minute.
I'm not done. - OK.
Call LeBron. You can call him.
He's going to lie for you.
He won't lie for me.
He would lie with me if I was lying--
- Ooh. - --but I'm not lying.
So you admit that y'all be lying.
If I was lying, but I'm not lying.
- OK. - We're not in that position.
We don't have to lie.
Do y'all laugh at the memes of LeBron lying?
What?
I laugh at LeBron all day long.
[laughs]
No, we got a group chat that's hilarious.
But no, seriously, the point I'm trying to make
is, it's very difficult for a civilian, nonprofessional
athlete to shoot.
You just called all of us athletes.
Now-- [laughter]
--now we civilians.
I said that's nonprofessional athlete.
I'm serious.
And so, Shannon, he don't understand it, but we're
going to have a little--
he got to pay to see it.
I don't do stuff for free like that.
[laughs]
Rich Paul, ladies and gentlemen.
Lucky Me is available now.