>> THANKS MUCH. HI THERE.
HI THERE. IT IS MONDAY, AUGUST 12th.
HERE’S WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW.
>>> MULTIPLE INVESTIGATIONS NOW
UNDER WAY TO FIGURE OUT HOW
JEFFREY EPSTEIN, AN ACCUSED SEX
TRAFFICKER, AND A REGISTERED SEX
OFFENDER, ENDED UP DEAD AFTER
APPARENTLY TAKING HIS OWN LIFE
INSIDE A JAIL CELL OVER THE
WEEKEND.
WEEKEND. THE NEW YORK CITY MEDICAL
EXAMINER’S OFFICE SAID SUNDAY
THEY DO NOT HAVE AN OFFICIAL
CAUSE OF DEATH BUT HAVEN’T FOUND
ANY SIGNS OF FOUL PLAY.
MEANWHILE, THERE ARE A TON OF
QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW EXACTLY ALL
OF THIS HAPPENED.
FOR ONE, HE HAD BEEN ON SUICIDE
WATCH AFTER BEING FOUND PASSED
OUT IN HIS OWN JAIL CELL JULY
23rd WITH MARKS ON HIS NECK BUT
NBC NEWS HAS LEARNED HE WAS
TAKEN OFF SUICIDE WATCH
FOLLOWING A PSYCHIATRIC
EVALUATION LESS THAN A WEEK
LATER.
LATER. IN ADDITION, EPSTEIN WAS FOUND
ALONE AND QUESTIONS ARE RAISED
ABOUT WHY HE DIDN’T HAVE A CELL
MATE LIKE HE PREVIOUSLY DID.
WHILE THE GUARDS WERE SUPPOSED
TO BE CHECKING ON EPSTEIN EVERY
30 MINUTES, OFFICIALS ARE NOW
INVESTIGATING TO SEE IF THAT
ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
ACTUALLY HAPPENED. ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR OVER
THE WEEKEND SAID HE IS, QUOTE,
APPALLED AT EPSTEIN’S DEATH AND
SAID BOTH THE FBI AND THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WILL
INVESTIGATE.
INVESTIGATE. EPSTEIN HAD BEEN WAITING TRIAL
ON FEDERAL SEX TRAFFICKING AND
CONSPIRACY CHARGES AND WAS
FACING UP TO 45 YEARS BEHIND
BARS.
BARS. TOM WINTER HAS BEEN DIGGING INTO
ALL OF THIS FOR US AND IS NBC’S
CORRESPONDENT FOR
CORRESPONDENT FOR INVESTIGATIONS.
INVESTIGATIONS. TOM, WE SHOULD POINT OUT THIS
WASN’T JUST ABOUT JEFF
RE-EPSTEIN.
RE-EPSTEIN. ONE OF THE REASONS HE WAS SUCH A
HIGH PROFILE PRISONER IS THE
TANGLED WEB IN WHICH HE LIVED,
ALL OF THE MAJOR POWER PLAYERS
THAT COULD BE IMPLICATED.
AT THIS POINT THERE ARE NO SIGNS
OF FOUL PLAY FROM THE AUTOPSY
BUT NO CONCLUSION ON CAUSE OF
DEATH.
DEATH. WHY NOT?
WHY NOT? >> Reporter: I THINK, STEPHANIE,
LOOK.
LOOK. THIS IS GOING TO BE A DEATH
STUDIED FOR THE NEXT 15, 20 PLUS
YEARS.
YEARS. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IN NEW YORK
CITY IS TYPICALLY CAUTIOUS.
AND I THINK THEY WANT TO TAKE A
STEP BACK, A CHANCE TO LOOK AT
EVERY POSSIBLE THING.
SAY THERE IS A CUT ON HIS HAND
OR ABRASION ON HIS PALM THE
MEDICAL EXAMINER NOTICES SHE MAY
WANT TO GO TO THE FBI AND SAY
CAN YOU TALK TO THE B.O.P. ABOUT
THIS?
THIS? DID HE TAKE A FALL?
WAS THERE SOME SORT OF INCIDENT
THAT HAPPENED IN THE DAYS PRIOR?
CAN WE GET VIDEO OF THE
HALLWAYS?
HALLWAYS? THERE IS NO VIDEO OF THE CELLS.
IT IS THAT TYPE OF THING THEY’D
WANT TO DOUBLE CHECK.
IS THERE ANYTHING HERE THAT MAY
COME UP IN THE COURSE OF THE
FBI’S INVESTIGATION INTO THIS,
ANYTHING GUARDS MAY SAY THAT MAY
HELP ENLIGHTEN THE FINDINGS AND
WHAT THEY FOUND ON JEFFREY
EPSTEIN’S BODY AND VICE VERSA.
AT THIS POINT WE’RE JUST LOOKING
AT AN INVESTIGATION THAT WANTS
TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND
BE A LITTLE CAUTIOUS AND MAKE
SURE THEY HAVE ALL THEIR FACTS
TOGETHER BEFORE THEY COME OUT
WITH THE FINAL DETERMINATION.
AS YOU SAID STILL NO SIGN OF
FOUL PLAY AND SUICIDE IS
PRESUMED TO BE THE LEADING CAUSE
HERE.
HERE. >> HOW LONG DO THESE
INVESTIGATIONS TAKE AND WHAT
HAPPENS TO ALL THAT WAS
INVESTIGATED AND THE VALUE OF
HIS TESTIMONY BEFORE HE DIED?
>> REALLY THE VALUE OF EPSTEIN’S
TESTIMONY, HE HAD NOT TALKED TO
FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS, NOT
APPEARED BEFORE A GRAND JURY, SO
THAT KIND OF ELIMINATES THAT.
AS FAR AS ANY DEPOSITIONS OR
STATEMENTS HIS ATTORNEYS MAY
HAVE MADE, THOSE ARE PRESERVED
AND MEMORIALIZED FOR THE RECORD
AND THOSE COULD BE INTRODUCED AT
A TRIAL INVOLVING ANY OTHER
POTENTIAL COCONSPIRATORS IF WE
GET TO THAT POINT.
WITH REGARDS TO THE ONGOING
INVESTIGATION, IT IS ONGOING AND
THAT’S FROM THE U.S. ATTORNEY’S
MOUTH.
MOUTH. HE PUT OUT A STATEMENT SATURDAY
AFTERNOON SAYING, YOU KNOW,
FIRST OFF, IF THERE IS ANY MORE
VICTIMS, GIVE US A CALL.
WE STILL WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.
ON TOP OF THAT HE SAID THAT ANY
INVESTIGATION INTO THAT
CONSPIRACY COUNT YOU MENTIONED,
STEPHANIE, WILL GO ON AS WELL.
THIS IS NOT OVER SO TO SPEAK
WITH REGARDS TO EPSTEIN AND THE
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. >> ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, TOM WINTER.
WE HAVE TO GO A LOT FURTHER INTO
THIS.
THIS. I WANT TO BRING IN NBC’S CHIEF
LEGAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR
OF COURSE OF "THE BEAT" HERE ON
MSNBC EVERY DAY AT 6:00 P.M.
THE FINANCE EDITOR FOR THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" HAS BEEN LOOKING AT
EPSTEIN’S FINANCIAL TIES AND
THEY HAVE BEEN CRUSHING IT ON
UNBELIEVABLE REPORTING AROUND
HOW SPECIFICALLY EPSTEIN MADE SO
MUCH MONEY.
MUCH MONEY. AND THE FORMER FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR FOR THE SOUTHERN AND
EASTERN DISTRICTS OF NEW YORK IS
WITH US.
WITH US. TO YOU FIRST.
HOW BIG OF A DEAL IS THIS?
EPSTEIN MAY BE THE MOST HIGH
PROFILE PRISONER AT LEAST IN THE
NEWS CYCLE RIGHT NOW.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. PROBABLY AFTER EL CHAPPO, THE
SECOND MOST IMPORTANT IN ALL OF
U.S. CUSTODY NOW DEAD.
THIS IS A, ARE YOU KIDDING ME,
MOMENT FOR BILL BARR’S JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO AS YOU
REPORTED, AS WE’VE DISCUSSED,
WAS KNOWN TO ALLEGEDLY HAVE
ATTEMPTED A SUICIDE.
AT LEAST THAT WAS INVESTIGATED
INITIALLY.
INITIALLY. THEN IS TAKEN OFF THE TYPE OF
PRECAUTIONS THAT WOULD BE
NECESSARY AS YOU MENTIONED.
AND THEN THIS HAPPENS.
IT IS A HUGE, HUGE DEAL.
>> DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO YOU, HE
IS PUT ON SUICIDE WATCH, TAKEN
OFF LESS THAN A WEEK LATER.
HE HAD A ROOMMATE.
SUDDENLY HE DIDN’T.
WHY WOULD HE BE IN A SITUATION
WHERE HE COULD TAKE HIS OWN
LIFE?
LIFE? >> YEAH, I MEAN, THE BUREAU OF
PRISONS IS GOING TO HAVE A LOT
OF REALLY HARD QUESTIONS TO
ANSWER ABOUT THE DECISIONS THEY
MADE WITH RESPECT TO EPSTEIN.
MY GUESS IS YOU WILL HEAR THINGS
LIKE, ONE, THE COST OF STAFFING
SOMEBODY, TO HAVE SOMEBODY WITH
EYES ON AN INMATE 24/7.
>> HOLD ON.
COST OF STAFFING.
FOR THIS PARTICULAR PERSON,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? THEY COULDN’T FIND THE MONEY,
SOMEBODY WHO HAS TIES TO A
CURRENT PRESIDENT, A FORMER
PRESIDENT, BUSINESS LEADERS IN
BANKING, PRIVATE EQUITY,
HOLLYWOOD, ROYAL FAMILY MEMBERS.
GIVE ME A BREAK.
THEY DIDN’T HAVE THE MONEY FOR
THAT?
THAT? >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. EVEN MORE SO THERE IS REPORTING
THAT CAME OUT THAT THE GUARDS
THAT WERE STAFFED WITH WATCHING
EPSTEIN HAD BEEN WORKING SEVERAL
BACK-TO-BACK SHIFTS, WERE ON A
SERIES OF OVERTIMES.
SO PERHAPS WEREN’T AT THE PEAK
OF THEIR ABILITY TO ACTUALLY
MONITOR THE SITUATION.
BUT I JUST WANT TO THROW OUT THE
SECOND PIECE, WHICH IS I DO
THINK THAT INSTITUTIONS, WHETHER
RIGHT OR WRONG, AND THE B.O.P.
HAS TO ANSWER TO THIS, THERE IS
A HESITANCY TO KEEPING SOMEBODY
ON A SUICIDE WATCH FOR TOO LONG
A, BECAUSE OF THE COST BUT, B,
BECAUSE IT IS INCREDIBLY
INVASIVE FOR THE PRISONER.
FOR EXAMPLE THEY AREN’T GIVEN A
SHEET.
SHEET. THEY ARE SLEEPING ON SORT OF A
BARE MATTRESS.
BARE MATTRESS. THEY ARE PUT IN A SPECIAL CELL
WHERE THERE MAY NOT BE
VENTILATION THEY COULD USE TO
POTENTIALLY HANG THEMSELVES.
THERE ARE REASONS POTENTIALLY
THE BUREAU OF PRISONS MOVED HIM
OFF THOUGH, CLEARLY, IT WAS NOT
APPROPRIATE IN THIS CASE AND
THEY HAVE TO ANSWER TO THESE
QUESTIONS.
QUESTIONS. >> I WANT TO READ WHAT THIS
ATTORNEY FOR SOME OF EPSTEIN’S
VICTIMS SAYS.
VICTIMS SAYS. HE WRITES THIS.
IT SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE COMMON
SENSE THAT JEFF RE-EPSTEIN WAS
NOT ON SUICIDE WATCH AND DOES
NOT MAKE COMMON SENSE THAT IF HE
WAS ON SUICIDE WATCH HE COULD
HAVE SUCCESSFULLY TAKEN HIS OWN
LIFE UNLESS HE HAD SOME OUTSIDE
HELP.
HELP. ARI MELBER, I TURN BACK TO YOU
ON THIS.
ON THIS. THIS IS EMBARRASSING.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS
OUTRAGED.
OUTRAGED. PEOPLE ARE UPSET.
OUTRAGE AND UPSET GOES AWAY IN A
COUPLE DAYS.
COUPLE DAYS. WHY WOULD PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF
POWER NOT ENSURE THAT JEFFREY
EPSTEIN WAS SAFE GIVEN ALL THAT
HE -- I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET
INTO ALL THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
BUT HOLY COW.
HE IS TIED TO SOME OF THE MOST
POWERFUL PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH.
>> I THINK YOU’RE ASKING THE
RIGHT QUESTIONS.
RIGHT QUESTIONS. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS HE IS
APPALLED.
APPALLED. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS IN
CHARGE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
AND BUREAU OF PRISONS.
THIS IS LIKE SOMETIMES WHEN
DONALD TRUMP SAYS CAN YOU
BELIEVE WHAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS UP TO AND YOU WANT
TO SAY, YOU RUN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. THERE IS A LOT ABOUT THAT WHAT
ABOUTISM AND BLAME SHIFTING.
WHEN YOU MENTION SOME OF THE
CONSPIRACIES, AGAIN, IT
SHOULDN’T BE NORMALIZED.
IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO HAVE THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
WHO HAS HIS OWN HISTORY AND
LINKS TO THIS PERSON --
>> AS DOES BILL BARR.
>> -- AS DO MANY OF THESE
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. TO TRY TO TURN THAT AROUND AND
DEFLECT.
DEFLECT. IF THEY ARE NOT FUNDING AND
STAFFING THE BUREAU OF PRISONS
APPROPRIATELY, THAT GOES TO THE
SYSTEMIC PART.
SYSTEMIC PART. YEAH, PEOPLE MAY WANT TO MOVE ON
IN A COUPLE DAYS.
THAT IS THE LARGER QUESTION.
THIS IS NOT THE ONLY IMPORTANT
PERSON IN U.S. CUSTODY, JUST
PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST
CONTROVERSIAL, RIGHTLY REVILED,
NOW DEAD FAMOUS PEOPLE IN
CUSTODY BUT THE BUREAU OF
PRISONS IS UNDER FUNDED AND HAVE
STRUGGLED UNDER AN ACTING
DIRECTOR WITH A PRESIDENT WHO
SAYS HE LIKES ACTING.
THIS TAKES US BACK TO BIGGER
THINGS WHICH IS DONALD TRUMP’S
LACK OF INTEREST IN STAFFING AND
FUNDING HIS OWN CABINET AND
AGENCIES, PILED ON TO, YES, THE
QUESTIONS ABOUT AS WE LOOK ON
THE SCREEN, THE FACT THAT HE HAD
A HISTORY WITH THIS PERSON.
THE CLINTONS DID.
I WOULD POINT OUT AGAIN WHILE
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
RESPONSIBILITY IT WAS THE OBAMA
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT
INITIALLY SIGNED OFF ON A FAR
TOO LENIENT DEAL ACCORDING TO
MANY EXPERTS WE HAVE CONSULTED.
THERE IS A LOT WRONG WITH THIS
CASE FROM THE VERY FIRST TO THIS
NOW EMBARRASSING IN CUSTODY
DEATH.
DEATH. >> IT IS BECAUSE OF GREAT
JOURNALISM OUT OF "THE MIAMI
HERALD" JULIE BROWN WILL BE
JOINING US LATER IN THE HOUR.
I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT WE
COVER EVERY DAY HERE FOLLOWING
THE MONEY, DAVID.
JEFFREY EPSTEIN’S FINANCES HAVE
BEEN A HUGE QUESTION.
WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE WHYs?
LES WEXNER HIS MAIN SOURCE OF
INCOME WHO A WEEK AGO YOU
REPORTED WEXNER SAID EPSTEIN HAD
STOLEN FROM HIM.
THEY RECOVERED $49 MILLION.
YOU’VE GOT HIS TIES TO LEON
BLACK FROM APOLLO.
DELAIN MAXWELL BEING NUMBER TWO.
DELAIN MAXWELL’S FATHER DIED A
CON MAN AND SWINDLER OWING BANKS
$4 BILLION.
$4 BILLION. ALL OF THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE
AROUND HOW EPSTEIN HAD ALL OF
THIS MONEY AND THESE TIES.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED AND ARE
YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET MORE
ANSWERS NOW THAT HE IS DEAD?
>> THAT IS WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT RIGHT NOW.
WHAT WE’VE LEARNED SO FAR IS
EPSTEIN WOULD GO AROUND SAYING
HE IS A BILLIONAIRE AND MONEY
MANAGER, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF
EITHER OF THOSE.
WHAT HE WAS VERY GOOD AT WAS
INSINUATING HIMSELF INTO HIGH
PROFILE SITUATIONS WITH SOME OF
THE WORLD’S MOST PROMINENT AND
SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMEN.
SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMEN. HE MANAGED TO DO THAT,
REMARKABLY, EVEN AFTER HE WAS
CONVICTED OF SEX CRIMES AND HAD
TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER.
YOU HAVE VERY SENIOR EXECUTIVES
AT JPMORGAN, APOLLO, THE BIG
PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM, LES WEXNER
THE CEO OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS
VICTORIA’S SECRET.
VICTORIA’S SECRET. THESE GUYS ALL CONTINUED TO DO
BUSINESS OR HAVE FINANCIAL
CONNECTIONS WITH EPSTEIN LONG
AFTER HE HAD BEEN PUBLICLY
TARRED.
TARRED. WE DON’T KNOW WHY.
>> WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS A
BILLIONAIRE HE LIVED IN THE
SECOND MOST VALUABLE PRIVATE
RESIDENCE IN NEW YORK CITY.
HE HAS A RANCH IN NEW MEXICO,
OWNS AN ISLAND OFF ST. JOHN, AN
APARTMENT IN PARIS AND A PLACE
IN MIAMI.
IN MIAMI. HE HAD A LOT OF DOUGH.
>> DON’T FORGET THE PRIVATE
PLANT.
PLANT. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. THEN TO YOU, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE
SUBPOENAS WE ALREADY KNOW?
TWO WEEKS AGO EPSTEIN’S LAWYERS
WERE SUBPOENAED.
WERE SUBPOENAED. THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE LOLITA
EXPRESS.
EXPRESS. WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL OF THESE
REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION?
DO THEY FADE AWAY OR DO WE GET
ANSWERS?
ANSWERS? >> THEY DON’T NECESSARILY FADE
AWAY.
AWAY. I THINK THE CASE AND THE
INVESTIGATIONS CONTINUES SORT OF
IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.
THE CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST
EPSTEIN HIMSELF BY THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, THOSE ARE
GOING TO BE DISMISSED BECAUSE HE
IS DEAD.
IS DEAD. OBVIOUSLY THEY CAN’T PROCEED
AGAINST HIM.
AGAINST HIM. IF YOU REMEMBER THE SDNY
INCLUDED A CONSPIRACY CHARGE IN
THEIR INDICTMENT AGAINST EPSTEIN
SO THAT NECESSARILY MEANS THAT
HE WAS AT LEAST ALLEGED TO HAVE
BEEN CONSPIRING OR WORKING WITH
SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO THESE
CRIMES.
CRIMES. THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABSOLUTE
AUTHORITY TO CONTINUE
INVESTIGATING TO THE EXTENT
THEY’RE LOOKING INTO WHO WAS HE
DOING THESE CRIMES WITH?
THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS NOW IS
MY GUESS IS THERE WILL BE CIVIL
FORFEITURE CASES.
FORFEITURE CASES. >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> THIS IS A WAY THE GOVERNMENT
COULD GO AFTER HIS ASSETS.
SO EVEN THOUGH HE IS DEAD, YOU
DON’T ACTUALLY HAVE A GUILTY
FINDING TO TRY TO GO AFTER AND
RECOVER SOMEBODY’S ASSETS.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU’RE TALKING
ABOUT HIS PROPERTIES.
THE GOVERNMENT COULD BRING A
CIVIL FORFEITURE ACTION TO TRY
TO SEIZE THOSE AND POTENTIALLY
USE THAT MONEY TO GIVE SOME
RESTITUTION TO THE VICTIMS.
THERE MAY BE SOME HOPE THAT THE
VICTIMS WILL GET A LITTLE BIT OF
JUSTICE IN THE CASE.
EVEN IF NOT THEIR DAY IN COURT
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK?
IT WAS JUST FRIDAY, DOCUMENTS
WERE UNSEALED.
WERE UNSEALED. WE WERE ALL WAITING FOR
SEPTEMBER TO FIND OUT MORE
INFORMATION ABOUT THIS MAN’S
LIFESTYLE AND HIS TIES.
>> I THINK THE REASON SOME
PEOPLE ARE SO UPSET ON THE
JUSTICE SIDE IS WITHOUT HIM
BEING ALIVE YOU CAN’T ULTIMATELY
CRACK HIM AND GET MORE
INFORMATION DIRECTLY FROM HIM.
>> EVEN, LET’S SAY HE WAS NEVER
GOING TO SPEAK.
ALL THE INFORMATION, THE
DOCUMENTS THAT WERE OUT THERE,
WILL WE GET TO SEE THEM?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. ANYTHING THE GOVERNMENT HAD THEY
STILL HAVE.
STILL HAVE. THEY CAN MOVE ON THAT.
BUT I THINK PEOPLE MAY BE LESS
AFRAID OF A DEAD MAN THAN A
LIVING ONE.
LIVING ONE. >> THE BANKS ARE THE KEY TO THIS
ONCE AGAIN.
ONCE AGAIN. YOUR FAVORITE BANK, MINE,
DEUTSCHE BANK, IS RIGHT IN THE
MIDDLE OF THIS.
HAS BEEN PORING OVER EPSTEIN’S
FINANCIAL RECORDS.
FINANCIAL RECORDS. HE HAD DOZENS OF ACCOUNTS THERE
UNTIL A MONTH AND A HALF AGO.
FROM WHAT I HEAR INSIDE THE BANK
THEY ARE STARTING TO FIND STUFF
THAT CONNECTS EPSTEIN TO OTHER
BANKS AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND
COULD BE A REAL TREASURE TROVE