Well, I was reading.
I read over the actual NHSTA report
today and then also your article.
Can you tell me a little bit
about what this article showed?
Well, it's. It's kind of an incomplete
report really.
As of now, like knit, submitted,
clear, it's an initial report.
I assume that it's going to be a more
comprehensive 1 coming the future,
that right now is just kind
of raw data without context,
so there's not that much that we
can infer from it right now other
than just crashes on advanced
driver assist system or a thing,
and they somewhat frequently,
but we we cannot really.
Say like that's clearly at the top in
terms of the overall number of crashes,
but that doesn't mean much at this time.
If you don't put it in the context
of how many cars are equipped
with that system and how many
miles are driven on that system,
which is what we really need to know really.
See, that's one thing that
thing stuck out to me.
Like you said, Tesla obviously
numbers Wise had the most crashes,
but they also have a lot of cars
on the road compared to some of
those other companies, correct?
Yeah, it's it's super hard to tell
exactly how many are equipped with it.
Technically, all Tesla vehicles that
are produced right now I have it test
limited standard Autopilot didn't
used to be used to have to pay for it,
but there's different tiers
with different feature.
Different ads feature in
the different packages,
but I think for the last three years now,
yeah, the last three years
it has been completely free.
Like every car comes with
traffic where crews control and.
Lane keeping.
So which does look so with those
two feature that consider level
2 ADAS system from for nitza?
So that's where the the crashes that are
reported on so they were 200 something
crashes with that system activated.
And yeah it could be as many as
like a million cars right now with
with that system and in comparison
when you look at at Ford would add
like barely a few crashes in that.
In that report forward as the blue cruise.
Which is the another level 2 system,
I mean equivalent to Autopilot.
It's it's the competitor to Autopilot
and but we don't know how many
cars that they have that have that
system and you have to pay for it.
It's an upgrade or it's part of a
wider package and include other
features in the car,
so I don't Ford doesn't disclose
what's the take rate on every
let's say Mustang like that.
You can have that option on it.
We don't.
We just don't know that, but it might.
Strong assumption that Tesla.
In terms of miles driven,
far exceed every other ad
as system out there.
And then with this report with the
autopilot, these are cars where
there are still people in the car.
At the level of two system,
it, that's all it is.
It's cruise control,
traffic aware cruise control.
So the the car will will adapt to the
speed of the traffic in front of it.
And it keeps you in your lane.
In the case of of Tesla,
it can also change lane automatically
depending on the features that that you have,
but that that's not even needed to
be required to be a level 2 system.
Now what was interesting is the the
report split the two the Level 2
system with the Level 3 to 5 system and
that's where things get a lot murkier,
because first of all,
it was my first time that I saw
that Nitza would consider Tesla
to have any kind of Level 3.
System because they did put a crash in there,
didn't specify what crash it was.
Though we have our our suspicion
because there was a crash on
FSD beta earlier this year,
so the assumption right now
is that needs took.
Might consider test left as the better,
which is a completely different
program than the autopilot,
but not completely different, but different.
You know to pilot.
And it sounds like they
consider that a Level 3,
which normally I mean again when you get
to Level 3 and up it gets a lot murkier,
but normally you would.
Think that it doesn't require
driver monitoring of the system,
meaning that there has to be a
gap between when the system say
OK now you have to pay attention.
Now you don't have to pay attention
and you can get your hands off the
wheel for Tesla to pilot and FSD beta,
which again the beta is.
It's a test program.
At this time,
you always have to keep your hands
on the wheel and you have to stay
attentive at all time and be ready
to take control because it is.
It's not a perfect system.
Far from perfect really so.
Yeah it it sounds like now and it's
so considered the FSD better Level 3.
But yet all all of those system.
To answer a question,
all of those system require the
driver attention. At this moment.
It's just. There's no real self drive.
I know there's a lot of headlines right
now since the report came out that,
oh,
this is the 200 something crashed on
self driving this these that's not accurate.
There's no self driving system.
Even Tesla brought some of that on
itself because they called it their
system full self-driving beta.
But it is no way self driving right now.
That the system does a lot and
it's impressive,
but driver attention is required
all the time.
Yeah, I was gonna say because the
drivers are supposed to be the
ones to take the responsibility
and make sure they're still.
Yeah, that's a big difference,
like when when when you going to
start seeing like a true development
of a big breakthrough in in cell
driving is when you're going to see
companies take responsibility for for
what the system does at this time.
That's that takes no
responsibility whatsoever.
You're starting to see that like in Europe,
for example, like Mercedes has been
authorized to have a Level 3 system,
and they even tell you you don't have to pay
attention when that system is being operated.
So you can like answer e-mail.
You can look at your phone
and that's actually.
Like legal, apparently.
Some places in Germany,
but the system has a lot
of limitation too and you.
It's it's only on certain
roads that it's allowed,
and it's so Level 3 is kind of the
geofence that they call it like
they don't allow it any everywhere.
OK, that makes sense, and then I
guess from this report like you said,
it's kind of the basic numbers.
You don't feel like it shows a lot.
Do you think there are any like
impacts that will come from this
report or anything like that?
Because like you said,
there it is being talked about a lot today.
Yeah, it's yeah it is
being talked about a lot.
I think there's we get very little value
from that report as it stands right now,
I would really assume that that's going
to come out with a lot more comprehensive
data in the near future, and I hope so.
Otherwise kind of premature for them
to to not only put that out there,
but like they send the press
release and everything which needs.
It doesn't always do when they they put
out a report and that's so it sounds
like they want that to be publicized,
but I would have put that under.
With more context, really,
I think would be there is still value.
I'm not saying there is no value
whatsoever like we it's it's.
It is news that all right these
system have crashes but.
Though we already knew that to the gift.
As of as of late, really.
Sorry, you paused for a
little bit there right now.
I think it was my Internet connection,
but you were saying there is value.
And of course tracking these
things because this new technology,
but that's not the end all be
all report exactly exactly.
Is there anything else you think
is important for people to know?
I guess on this topic or
to do with this report.
Well, I mean, self-driving is
coming like this, just there.
There's no doubt about it.
It's about when it's about how.
Because, obviously with
this tiered level system,
it's it's kind of confusing for
for for the wider public like what?
What should I be looking for?
Should I be looking for a
level 2 Level 3 level 4?
And every automaker is a different approach.
So it's it's.
It's an interesting way that the the
the break it down and like if if you
look at the report purely like that
it looks like you well the level
2 system are a lot more dangerous
cause a lot more crashes than on the three,
four and five.
Of course like again,
if you would were to put the
mouse driven on those two,
you'd probably get at least 10 times
if not more miles driven on level 2,
then 3/4 and five all combined together.
There's no doubt about that,
because Level 2's are actually in the
hands of consumers right now while Level 3.
25 There is some commercial
system being deployed right now,
like in San Francisco and
Phoenix by Waymo and Cruz,
but it's extremely limited for the most part.
The miles driven right now full of
3/4 and five or all test vehicles so.
It's it's interesting to look at that
way and and to track it in the next
few years to see how it compares,
how it evolves,
and I assume that's the goal of
of nitza with this new report.
Because this is the first time
they come out with this.
It's going to be interesting too,
because they're gonna be able
to in the case of Tesla,
they're gonna be able to pull
more data from Tesla.
Tesla has been notoriously more secretive
about about their data in this case,
and they've been able to use some
loopholes to circumvent disclosure before,
especially in California,
where the DMV has asked companies that
I've been testing self driving in the
state to have a lot of disclosure,
especially when it comes to driver
disengagement, driver intervention,
and things of the sort including crashes.
And Tesla has.
Maybe it's went around that by claiming
that older systems are level 2,
which again to a degree.
Technically it is.
It is true,
but at the same times when you you
claim that you have a full cell
driving beta with people testing
the beta like it's hard to argue
that you're not testing self
driving vehicles in the state,
just very clearly what you're calling it.
So I I think maybe this report longer
term is going is going to bring us more
data about the Tesla's own testing,
because Elon Musk.
Has been notoriously against releasing
any kind of data with Tesla when
he was asked recently about it.
He he literally said people someone's
shareholder meeting an investor.
Asked whether Tesla is going to
release driver intervention data
about the full self-driving data
and his response was literally,
you just have to try it.
Try the better for yourself instead.
Even though trying the better literally
means to you need to have a car,
a Tesla vehicle,
you need to pay the $12,000 to
have the full self driving.
Or the $200 subscription.
And then you need to be to achieve
a driver safety score that's high
enough for Tesla to invite you
to the full self-driving beta.
So it's not like an easy thing to do,
it's but.
So I guess more scrutiny on
that front is inviting that by
not being transparent about it.
So for from that case,
that's why I think the report right
now is is being blown up a lot.
It's people are interested in it
because there's nothing else.
He has one more question related to
this because we're based in Austin,
TX has to move their headquarters
here in Austin's starting to become
a place where they're testing out
some different self-driving systems.
I know leaves Argo,
AI is testing some stuff here soon.
Like you said it is happening and we're
going to probably keep seeing more of
that here in Austin I would assume.
Oh yeah, for sure think reported last
year that Tesla was literally looking for
decoded test operators for ADS system
and cell driving system, which Tesla
has its own internal testing people.
And now they are building a fleet of that
in in Austin, or at least based in Austin.
But for the most part,
that's mostly known for having
like customer being their tests,
their testers, their test operators
for self-driving features.
Right now, the FSD.
Doesn't like 100,000 people in it.
Most of those people are
customers like like me,
actually got the full self-driving
better in my car last week, so.
This is a very very unique approach
that only Tesla has for the moment,
but I I didn't know that there
are no way I was coming to Austin.
That's cool.
Things and stuff here as well.