>>> HOW WOULD YOU ELICIT FROM ROBERT MUELLER THE STORY OF HIS
INVESTIGATION?
INVESTIGATION? >> I WOULD EITHER ASK HIM DIRECT
LEADING QUESTIONS TO HAVE HIM
AFFIRM KEY PARTS OF THE REPORT
OR I WOULD ASK HIM TO READ LINES
FROM THE REPORT OR BOTH.
THIS IS A CHANCE FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE TO LEARN WHAT HE
FOUND.
FOUND. IT’S TOO BAD THAT HAVING
PUBLISHED A 450-PAGE REPORT THAT
DIDN’T GET THE JOB DONE, BUT IT
DIDN’T.
DIDN’T. FOLKS DON’T KNOW WHAT HE FOUND
AND YOU CAN ASK HIM IN A SIMPLE
STRAIGHTFORWARD WAY AND GET
THOSE DETAILS IN FRONT OF THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE.
AMERICAN PEOPLE. >> FORMER FBI DIRECTOR JAMES
COMEY TODAY SPEAKING WITH THE
GREAT NICOLLE WALLACE HERE ON
MSNBC.
MSNBC. DIRECTOR COMEY IS ONE OF MANY
FIGURES EITHER NEAR TO THIS
INVESTIGATION OR WHO ARE
OTHERWISE IN A POSITION TO KNOW
WHO HAVE SUGGESTED WHAT ROBERT
MUELLER SHOULD BE ASKED TOMORROW
AND HOW.
AND HOW. JOINING US NOW ARE TWO PEOPLE
WHO HAVE THEIR OWN VERY
WELL-EARNED PERSPECTIVES ON THIS
AHEAD OF TOMORROW’S QUESTIONING.
CHUCK ROSENBERG IS A FORMER
SENIOR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
OFFICIAL AND FORMER FBI CHIEF OF
STAFF.
STAFF. AND NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING
SOLICITOR GENERAL.
SOLICITOR GENERAL. CHUCK AND NEAL, WE NEVER PUT TWO
PEOPLE ON TOGETHER.
I PROMISE YOU’RE NOT HERE TO DO
PUNCHING JUDY AND FIGHT EACH
OTHER.
OTHER. >> DEFINITELY NOT.
>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THIS
BREAKING NEWS WE GOT TONIGHT.
PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED IN
REPORTING ABOUT THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S PROCESS ABOUT
MUELLER’S CHIEF OF STAFF AND WE
KNOW HE WAS MUELLER’S CHIEF OF
STAFF WHEN MUELLER WAS FBI
DIRECTOR.
DIRECTOR. NOW IT SEEMS THAT THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE HAS MADE
THE DECISION THAT THEY’RE GOING
TO SWEAR MR. ZEBLEY IN AS A
WITNESS, TO SIT NEXT TO MUELLER
AND ALSO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM
AT LEAST THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE MEMBERS, EVEN IF
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE SEEMS LIKE
THEY MAY NOT BE FOLLOWING THAT
SAME PATH.
SAME PATH. CHUCK, I KNOW YOU HAD THE SAME
JOB THAT AARON ZEBLEY DID AS
CHIEF OF STAFF.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
>> WELL, AARON IS AS SMART AND
HUMBLE AND DILIGENT AS YOU COULD
HOPE FOR.
HOPE FOR. HE ALSO WILL KNOW THE CASE
BACKWARD AND FORWARD.
HE WORKED RIGHT NEXT TO BOB FOR
YEARS, INCLUDING ON THE ENTIRE
SPECIAL COUNSEL PROJECT.
SO HERE’S WHAT I MAKE OF IT.
IF BOB DOESN’T KNOW AN ANSWER,
AARON WILL.
AARON WILL. AND AARON’S TESTIFIED IN BIG
CASES BEFORE, INCLUDING IN THE
EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
WHEN I WAS U.S. ATTORNEY.
AARON WENT FROM BEING AN FBI
SPECIAL AGENT TO BEING A FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR AND WAS ONE OF THE
MOST IMPORTANT WITNESSES IN OUR
PRESENTATION OF THE 9/11 CASE.
SO BIG CASE EXPERIENCE.
DILIGENT, HUMBLE, SMART AND
EARNEST.
EARNEST. KNOWS THE CASE BACKWARDS AND
FORWARDS AND WILL HELP TELL THE
STORY.
STORY. >> NEAL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE ABOUT
THE SORT OF CHURN AROUND THIS
DECISION TODAY?
DECISION TODAY? OBVIOUSLY THESE TWO COMMITTEES,
I’M NOT SURE ABOUT WHAT THE
TIMING WAS IN TERMS OF WHEN THIS
WAS FIRST BROACHED AND HOW
THEY’RE MAKING THESE DECISIONS.
IT SEEMS LIKE THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE WON’T SWEAR MR. ZEBLEY
IN.
IN. THEY’LL ALLOW HIM TO ADVISE MR.
MUELLER BUT NOT ANSWER HIS OWN
QUESTIONS.
QUESTIONS. THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE WILL
HANDLE IT A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. OBVIOUSLY IT’S UNUSUAL TO HAVE A
SECOND WITNESS AT THE LAST
MOMENT.
MOMENT. >> YEAH, LOOK, IT’S UNUSUAL.
WE’RE ALL GUESSING AS TO WHAT’S
GOING ON, BUT FUNDAMENTALLY I
DON’T THINK IT’S GOING TO CHANGE
VERY MUCH.
VERY MUCH. WE EXPECT MUELLER TO GO IN
TOMORROW AND DO WHAT HE SAID,
WHICH HE SAID HE’S GOING TO
STICK TO THE FOUR CORNERS OF HIS
REPORT.
REPORT. THE QUESTION IS ARE THE
DEMOCRATS GOING TO GRANDE STAND
IN THE HOUSE OR GET TO THE HEART
OF THIS AND SAY TO MUELLER, TELL
US WHAT YOUR REPORT ACTUALLY
SAYS BECAUSE I THINK IF THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE HEAR WHAT THE
REPORT ACTUALLY SAYS AS OPPOSE
TO THE SPIN AROUND IT, IT’S
GOING TO BE A DEVASTATING DAY
FOR THE PRESIDENT.
>> THIS IS A BIT OF A SENSITIVE
QUESTION.
QUESTION. DO YOU THINK THERE MAY BE SOME
WORRY THAT DIRECTOR MUELLER MAY
NOT BE FULLY -- MAY NOT BE AT
100% CAPACITY OR SOME REASON WHY
HE AND HIS OFFICE FEEL THAT THEY
NEED TO HAVE SOMEBODY THERE
EITHER ADVISING HIM OR PICKING
UP PART OF THE WITNESS
RESPONSIBILITIES TO ANSWER THESE
QUESTIONS?
QUESTIONS? IS THAT POSSIBLY WHAT’S GOING ON
HERE.
HERE. >> YEAH, I DON’T KNOW FOR SURE.
DO I KNOW THIS.
AT THE END OF A 22-MEANT
INVESTIGATION AND A 448-PAGE
REPORT, IT’S NICE TO HAVE
SOMEONE SITTING NEXT TO YOU TO
HELP YOU.
HELP YOU. >> MMM-HMM.
>> MMM-HMM. >> IF I STUMBLE HERE, NEAL WILL
PICK IT UP AND, YOU KNOW, CARRY
IT ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.
THAT’S COMFORTING.
THAT’S COMFORTING. FIVE HOURS OF TESTIMONY BEFORE
TWO COMMITTEES ABOUT AN
INVESTIGATION THAT LONG AND
COMPLEX, PROBABLY CALLS FOR TWO
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. NOW, IT IS UNUSUAL.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU AS A FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR, WE ALMOST ALWAYS HAD
PEOPLE TRYING CASES TOGETHER
UNDER THE VERY SIMPLE PREMISE
THAT TWO HEADS ARE BETTER THAN
ONE.
ONE. >> NEAL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
YOU RAISED IN AN OP-ED TODAY IN
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" WAS THAT
THE QUESTIONING COULD ACTUALLY
BE VERY SIMPLE AND DIRECT.
THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL AND
INDEED MR. ZEBLEY ALONGSIDE HIM
SHOULD PERHAPS JUST BE ASKED
ABOUT THE WAY THE PRESIDENT HAS
CHARACTERIZED MUELLER’S
CHARACTERIZED MUELLER’S FINDINGS.
FINDINGS. ASK HIM IF IT’S TRUE THAT IT
PROVED NO COLLUSION, THAT IT
PROVED NO OBSTRUCTION.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT’S AN
EFFECTIVE APPROACH?
EFFECTIVE APPROACH? >> WELL, BECAUSE I THINK
ULTIMATELY THIS IS A REALLY
SIMPLE SET OF QUESTIONS, WHICH
IS DID THE PRESIDENT OBSTRUCT
JUSTICE?
JUSTICE? AND AFTER MUELLER TURNED IN HIS
REPORT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
SPUN IT WITHOUT SHOWING US THE
REPORT FOR MANY WEEKS AND SAID,
OH, IT SHOWS NO OBSTRUCTION.
THE REPORT ACTUALLY SAYS THE
REVERSE, WHICH IS WHY OVER 1,000
FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS,
INCLUDING TODAY JIM COMEY IN
ANOTHER PART OF THE CLIP BEFORE
NICOLLE WALLACE SAYING, LOOK, IF
I READ THAT REPORT IT WOULD SHOW
THAT IF THIS WERE ANY OTHER
AMERICAN, THAT PERSON WOULD BE
LOOKING AT A FEDERAL INDICTMENT.
SO I THINK SIMPLE QUESTIONS ARE
IMPORTANT.
IMPORTANT. THEN I THINK TWO QUESTIONS THAT
GO BEYOND SIMPLE ARE IMPORTANT
AS WELL, WHICH IS THE -- WE KNOW
THAT MUELLER’S BY THE BOOK.
SO HE WANTS TO STICK TO THE FOUR
CORNERS OF THE REPORT.
BUT THE BOOK HAS CHANGED BECAUSE
AFTER HE TURNED HIS REPORT IN,
BARR SAID, OH, YOU COULD HAVE
ACTUALLY TOLD THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE DID MR. TRUMP COMMIT A
CRIME.
CRIME. AND IF, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT BARR
IS SAYING THAT’S PERMISSIBLE FOR
MUELLER TO HAVE DONE, I THINK
BARR -- I THINK MUELLER SHOULD
BE ASKED THAT QUESTION BY
CONGRESS AND SHOULD ANSWER THAT
QUESTION BECAUSE BARR IS SAYING
THAT’S FAIR GAME TO ANSWER,
MUELLER.
MUELLER. >> I THINK THAT’S A REALLY,
REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION.
I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN YOUR
TAKE ON THIS, CHUCK, BECAUSE
BARR HAS DISCUSSED A NUMBER OF
THINGS, INCLUDING DECISIONS
WITHIN THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
OFFICE AND IN THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S FINDINGS.
COUNSEL’S FINDINGS. THINGS THAT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT JUST TOLD MUELLER HE
CAN’T TALK ABOUT.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> SO THERE IS THIS SORT OF
STRANGE SITUATION WHERE THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS WILLING TO
CHARACTERIZE WHAT HAPPENED IN
MUELLER’S OFFICE, BUT MUELLER’S
BEING TOLD THAT HE, HIMSELF, IS
NOT ALLOWED TO.
THERE IS ALSO THE CIRCUMSTANCE
IN WHICH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL,
AS NEAL SAYS, HAS SORT OF
REDEFINED WHAT THE RULES ARE AND
WHETHER OR NOT MUELLER SHOULD
HAVE SAID WHETHER OR NOT THE
PRESIDENT COMMITTED CRIMES.
WILL ROBERT MUELLER SEE THOSE
THINGS THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL
BARR HAS SAID AS THE POLICY OF
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT HE
SHOULD FOLLOW BECAUSE THEY’RE
PROCLAMATIONS BY THE A.G.?
>> YEAH, I THINK IT PUTS BOB IN
A VERY DIFFICULT SPOT.
I MEAN, I’VE LEARNED TO TAKE
THAT MAN AT HIS WORD, HAVING
WORKED FOR HIM.
BY THE WAY, HIS DEFAULT IS
TACITURN.
TACITURN. SO THE NOTION THAT HE WOULD DO
SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE
ALREADY SAID HE WOULD DO -- WHEN
HE GAVE HIS PRESS CONFERENCE, HE
SAID I’M NOT GOING BEYOND MY
REPORT.
REPORT. MY REPORT IS MY TESTIMONY.
I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD.
I UNDERSTAND THAT MR. BARR
OPENED THE DOOR.
I GET THAT.
BUT I DON’T THINK IT’S IN BOB
MUELLER’S DNA TO DO IT.
>> MMM-HMM.
>> MMM-HMM. >> IT MAY NOT BE IN HIS DNA, BUT
DOESN’T HE HAVE TO?
I MEAN, THIS IS A GUY WHO
OVERSAW THIS 22-MONTH
INVESTIGATION, DIDN’T REACH A
CONCLUSION BECAUSE OF THIS LEGAL
BARRIER THAT HE THOUGHT EXISTED
AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL SAYING I’M YOUR BOSS,
THAT LEGAL BARRIER DOESN’T
EXIST.
EXIST. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> I THINK HE’S GOT TO ANSWER
THE QUESTION TOMORROW.
>> I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG.
>> NEAL KATYAL, CHUCK ROSENBERG,
I KNOW YOU TWO ARE GOING TO BE A
KEY PART OF OUR FOOTAGE -- OUR
COVERAGE OF THIS AS IT UNFOLDS
OVER THE COURSE OF TOMORROW.
WHICH I KNOW MEANS YOU HAVE TO
GO HOME AND GO TO SLEEP RIGHT
THIS SECOND.
THIS SECOND. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
I’LL SEE YOU TOMORROW.
>>> ALL RIGHT.
WE’VE GOT MUCH MORE TO GET TO
THIS MUELLER TESTIMONY EVE.
WE’VE ACTUALLY GOT THE VICE
CHAIR OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
WHO CAN HOPEFULLY HELP US WITH