>> Steve: IF ALL GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN, ONTARIO WILL LAUNCH ONLINE GAMING THIS APRIL.
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT WILL BRING A GREY MARKET IN INTERNET GAMBLING INTO THE OPEN.
CHIEF KELLY LAROCCA REPRESENTS THE MISSISSAUGAS OF SCUGOG ISLAND FIRST NATION, WHICH IS
INVESTED THE GREAT BLUE HERON CASINO AND HOTEL.
AND THEY CALL THIS MOVE A SLAP IN THE FACE, AND WORSE.
AND CHIEF LAROCCA JOINS US NOW FROM PORT PERRY, ONTARIO.
CHIEF, ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON OUR PROGRAM.
HOW ARE YOU DOING?
>> Chief LaRocca: I'M WELL, THANKS.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Steve: NOT AT ALL.
GIVE US YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE WILL BE THE NEW SITUATION IN ONTARIO AS OF
APRIL 4TH WHEN ONLINE GAMING GOES ON?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, ACCORDING TO THE PROVINCE'S PLAN, THE PROVINCIAL I-GAMING OR
INTERNET GAMING SCHEME WILL FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE GAMING IN ONTARIO.
GONE WILL BE ANY HOPE OF RESPONSIBLE GAMING.
GONE WILL BE ANY LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF GAMING SITES OR GAMING POSITIONS IN ONTARIO.
THE I-GAMING PLATFORM WILL BRING GAMING INTO THE LIVING ROOMS OF ONTARIANS, ALLOWING NEARLY
ANYONE WITH ACCESS TO THE INTERNET TO GAMBLE.
IT IN MY VIEW WILL AMOUNT TO AS WELL A COMPLETE SATURATION OF GAMBLING ACROSS THE PROVINCE AND
BASICALLY WILL KILL THE ALREADY TENUOUS ECONOMIES OF FIRST NATIONS.
SO BASICALLY IN MY VIEW IT'S CRITICAL THAT THE PROVINCE MEETS ITS DUTY TO MEANINGFULLY CONSULT
FIRST NATIONS AND ACCOMMODATE FIRST NATIONS.
MUNICIPALITIES AND OPERATORS, WELL, THEY HAVE NO VOICE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OWED ANY
CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTED DUTY OF CONSULTATION.
THE VALUES OF FIRST NATIONS INCLUDE RESPONSIBLE GAMING AND A MEASURED CAPACITY FOR GROWTH.
THESE ARE VALUES THAT IN MY VIEW ARE SIMILARLY HELD BY THE MAJORITY OF ONTARIANS ACROSS THE
PROVINCE.
SO THOUGH A DEATH KNELL TO FIRST NATIONS, THE MAJOR CONCERNS OF TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC SAFETY
WITH THE I-GAMING INITIATIVE ARE REALLY SHARED PROVINCE-WIDE.
>> Steve: YOU'VE RAISED A BUNCH OF ISSUES THERE.
LET'S SORT OF PICK THEM OFF ONE BY ONE.
TO START WITH, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT -- I GUESS THE IMPACT THIS
NEW I-GAMING WOULD HAVE ON YOU.
AND TO THAT END, SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD, LET'S BRING THIS UP FROM THE TORONTO STAR AND WE'LL GET
THIS ON THE RECORD FROM EARLIER THIS YEAR.
THE STAR REPORTED: >> Steve: CAN I JUST GET YOUR TAKE FIRST, CHIEF LaRocca, ON
WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT REPORT?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, FIRSTLY, I'M GLAD IT WAS COMMISSIONED.
I THINK OBVIOUSLY AS AN OPERATOR WITH 70% OF THE OPERATOR MARKET IN THE PROVINCE, GREAT CANADIAN
GAMING HAS A LOT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
CERTAINLY THEY ARE CONCERNS THAT ARE ECHOED ON OUR BEHALF GIVEN THAT THEY OPERATE THE GREAT BLUE
HERON.
I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY SUCH REPORTING FROM THE PROVINCE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE DATA IS FROM THEIR END, AND IF THEY HAVE IT, THEN IT CERTAINLY HASN'T
BEEN TRANSPARENTLY SHARED.
IN MY VIEW, THERE'S A LOT TO LOSE.
AS YOU MENTION, WE HAVE A STAKE IN THE GREAT BLUE HERON.
MORE THAN 25 YEARS AGO, OUR COMMUNITY TOOK A HUGE RISK TO BUILD THAT GREAT BLUE HERON
CASINO AND IT REMAINS BASICALLY THE LIFEBLOOD TO OUR FIRST NATION'S ECONOMY, AND OUR FIRST
NATION CONTINUES TO BE A MAJOR FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTOR TO THE COMMUNITY AND OTHER FIRST
NATIONS.
THAT INVESTMENT ENABLED US TO FINALLY LIFT OUR LONG-TERM BOIL WATER ADVISORY WHICH I'VE BEEN
ON YOUR SHOW TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT PREVIOUS TIMES.
IT PROVIDES HOUSING, HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, AND IT'S REALLY QUITE CRITICAL TO PRESERVING OUR
CULTURAL COMMUNITY.
FOR DECADES, THE PROVINCE HAS DEFENDED ITS MONOPOLY ON GAMING, GOING SO FAR AS TO PURSUE
CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST OTHER INDIGENOUS GOVERNMENTS WHO SOUGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN GAMING
ON THEIR OWN LAND.
AND THEN NOW IN A STUNNING REVERSAL, THEY'RE CREATING AN OPEN MARKET FOR I-GAMING IN THE
PROVINCE CONTRARY TO THEIR OWN PREVIOUS EFFORTS TO MAINTAIN A LIMITED MARKET SIZE.
SO THEY'RE OFFERING A GREAT DEAL TO COMPANIES WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO PARTICIPATE IN A GOVERNMENT
APPROVED I-GAMING SECTOR AFTER YEARS OF BLOCKING FIRST NATIONS AND OTHERS FROM ENTERING THE
GAMING INDUSTRY.
AGAIN, THEIR I-GAMING MODEL WAS ANNOUNCED WITHOUT ANY PRIOR CONSULTATION BY THE PROVINCE,
PERIOD.
THE FORD REGIME HAS YET AGAIN SHOWN A WANTON DISREGARD IN MY VIEW FOR THE CONTRACTUAL
OBLIGATIONS OF THE PROVINCE.
IT'S TIME THAT THEY ABANDON THEIR TYPICAL APPROACH OF SHOOTING FIRST AND ASKING
QUESTIONS LATER AND TAKE NOTE OF REPORTS SUCH AS THAT COMMISSIONED BY GREAT CANADIAN
GAMING.
WE ALL DESERVE A WELL-THOUGHT-OUT PLAN BEFORE THEY COME TO LAUNCH THEIR
I-GAMING PROGRAM IN APRIL.
>> Steve: LET'S JUST DO A QUICK HISTORY LESSON HERE.
ONCE UPON A TIME, AS YOU JUST POINTED OUT, YOUR FIRST NATION OWNED AND OPERATED THE GREAT
BLUE HERON; IS THAT RIGHT?
>> Chief LaRocca: YES.
>> Steve: YOU THEN YOU LOST THE ABILITY TO DO THAT AT WHAT POINT?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, IT WAS A BIT OF A SLOW BURN.
WE OPENED IT UP IN I BELIEVE IT WAS 1997 AND I BELIEVE THE SLOTS WERE PUT IN BY THE OLG INTO THE
GREAT BLUE HERON IN THE YEAR 2000 AND WE REALLY NOTICED AT THAT POINT AN ECONOMIC BOOM IN
OUR CASINO.
CLEARLY THE SLOTS WERE A NECESSARY INGREDIENT FOR SUCCESS, ALTHOUGH OUR TABLES
HAVE A LONGSTANDING PATRONAGE THAT IS RESPONSIBLY ENJOYED.
BUT OUR FIRST NATION, YES, OPERATED THE FACILITY AS A HYBRID FACILITY.
IT WAS THE ONLY ONE OF ITS KIND.
WE OPERATED THE TABLES WHILST THE OLG OPERATED THE SLOTS -- OR I SHOULD SAY WE BOTH OPERATED IT
UNDER A COMBINED OPERATOR, WHICH AT THE TIME WAS CASINOS AUSTRIA.
SO WE OPERATED THAT TICKETY-BOO UNTIL I'D SAY IN AND AROUND 2014, I BELIEVE IT WAS SLIGHTLY
BEFORE THAT THE OLG ANNOUNCED ITS APPROACH TO MODERNIZATION OF GAMING IN THE PROVINCE, WHICH IS
BASICALLY PRIVATIZATION OF GAMING, AND THEY WERE PUTTING QUITE AN AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ON
US TO GET INTO THE MODERNIZATION SCHEME WITH THEM RATHER THAN SORT OF OPERATING ON OUR OWN
BECAUSE THE THREAT OF THEM BUILDING UP OTHER LAND-BASED GAMING FACILITIES AROUND US WAS
VERY REAL AND IN FACT IS HAPPENING AND IS HAPPENING AGAINST OUR CONSENT AND AGAINST
THE CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE PROVINCE THAT THEY HAVE WITH US.
>> Steve: JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS, CHIEF LaRocca, YOU LOST THE RIGHT TO OPERATE THIS CASINO
AND YOU DO REALIZE SOME REVENUES FROM IT BUT YOU'RE NOT IN CHARGE OF IT ANYMORE; FAIR TO SAY?
>> Chief LaRocca: YES.
WE HAVE A LEASE AGREEMENT, HOST AGREEMENT AS DO OTHER HOST MUNICIPALITIES AND AS WELL A
REVENUE-SHARE.
WE ALLOWED TO -- WE ALLOWED THE OLG TO CONDUCT AND MANAGE THAT GAMING FOR US FOR A CERTAIN TIME
PERIOD OF THE LEASE, AND THEN WE RETAIN ALL RIGHTS TO GAMING IN OUR TERRITORY AFTER THAT TIME.
SO NOTHING HAS BEEN GIVEN AWAY IN THAT REGARD.
BUT WE ENTERED THAT MODERNIZATION PLAN AGAIN AS A WAY OF SURVIVAL BECAUSE OF THE
GREAT BLUE HERON BEING THE LIFEBLOOD TO OUR COMMUNITY.
WE NEED PEOPLE AND WE NEED PATRONS TO COME OUT TO OUR FIRST NATION AND ENJOY ALL THAT WE
HAVE TO OFFER AND TAKE PART IN OUR ECONOMY AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO THE SURVIVAL OF OUR
COMMUNITY.
>> Steve: HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE QUESTION, OF COURSE, AND THAT IS, IS THERE ENOUGH
GAMBLING GOING ON IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO TODAY THAT WOULD ENABLE THOSE WHO WANT TO
DO IT ONLINE AND THOSE WHO WANT TO GO TO A BRICKS AND MORTAR CASINO TO KIND OF SURVIVE
HAPPILY TOGETHER?
IN OTHER WORDS, IS THERE ENOUGH BUSINESS OUT THERE FOR EVERYBODY?
>> Chief LaRocca: YES.
INDEED.
WE COMMISSIONED A CANNIBALIZATION REPORT WAY BACK WHEN WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT
MODERNIZATION BACK IN 2014, AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR THEN THAT THE PROVINCE'S PLAN WAS TO
OVERSATURATE THE MARKET.
SINCE MODERNIZATION AND SIGNING ON TO THOSE GAMING AGREEMENTS WITH THEM THEY'VE IN FACT OPENED
NEW CASINOS AND NOT CLOSED OTHER CASINOS THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD.
SO THE MARKET IS EVEN MORE SATURATED THAN WE ANTICIPATED IT TO BE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE WATCHED COMMERCIALS ON -- IF YOU WATCH SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE, THE OLG IS
VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN ADVERTISING TO -- ADVERTISING TO ITS ONLINE PLATFORM AND I THINK
IT'S GOING TO BE QUITE ENOUGH AND, QUITE FRANKLY, I'M OPEN TO UNDERSTANDING THE DATA AROUND
GAMING, THE I-GAMING REGIME, BUT I DO NEED TO SEE IT IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND IT.
AND SO FAR THE PROVINCE HAS SHARED NOTHING.
>> Steve: LOOK, AUSTIN MATTHEWS, I SAW HIM DOING A COMMERCIAL THE OTHER DAY FOR
INTERNET GAMBLING.
THIS STUFF IS EVERYWHERE.
I REMEMBER A TIME WHERE YOU WEREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY AN IRISH SWEEPSTAKES TICKET IN THIS
PROVINCE AND NOW GAMBLING IS ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE.
LET'S FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THIS MAY HAVE ON YOU IF YOUR CONCERNS COME TO BE
TRUE.
HOW MANY JOBS DO YOU THINK FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE HAVE LOST SINCE YOU LOST CONTROL OF GREAT BLUE
HERON?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, CERTAINLY OUR MEMBERS HAVE LOST JOBS SINCE THE CHANGEOVER.
WE WERE ONCE THE SECOND LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE DURHAM REGION AND NOW WE'RE DEFINITELY NOT
THAT.
I THINK IT WENT FROM AROUND 1100 JOBS TO ABOUT 250 AT THIS TIME.
CERTAINLY THE PANDEMIC HASN'T HELPED.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY'RE OPENING PICKERING OR THEY'VE OPENED IT AND THEY'VE KEPT OPEN
AJAX DOWNS AND THEY'RE CONTINUING TO PROLIFERATE OTHER FACILITIES SUCH AS IN KAWARTHA,
SO I'M VERY NERVOUS ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT MODERNIZATION HAS HAD ON JOBS FOR FIRST NATIONS,
NOT ONLY OUR OWN PEOPLE HERE AT SCUGOG FIRST NATION, BUT OTHER FIRST NATIONS PERSONS THAT ARE
IN THE URBAN INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY WHO LIVE IN AND AROUND THIS AREA OR OTHER INDIGENOUS
PERSONS FROM THE LOCAL AREA FIRST NATIONS THAT ARE CLOSE BY.
CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING FORWARD NOT REQUIRING I-GAMING OPERATORS TO
HIRE ONTARIANS TO CREATE JOBS HERE IN THE PROVINCE.
THE CURRENT APPROACH DOESN'T CREATE ANY JOBS WHATSOEVER.
IT IN FACT TAKES THEM AWAY.
SO, YOU KNOW, I REALLY -- I'M DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE LEVEL OF OPPORTUNITY THAT ONTARIANS
ARE GOING TO HAVE AND CERTAINLY FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE.
>> Steve: AGAIN, LET'S UNDERSTAND WHAT THE IMPACT WILL BE HERE.
WE'RE TALKING NOW FEWER JOBS FOR FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE.
WE'RE TALKING POTENTIALLY LOWER REVENUES FOR YOU AS WELL.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT THAT YOU SEE DOWN THE ROAD?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ISSUES WITH THE CONTINUED BUILDING OF
COMMUNITY INFRASTRUCTURE.
RIGHT NOW WE'VE JUST FINALLY GOT OFF A BOIL WATER ADVISORY IN DECEMBER 2021 BUT WE'RE LOOKING
TO EXPAND WASTEWATER SO TO HELP THE COMMUNITY AND PROTECT THE LAKE AND THE ENVIRONMENT.
PROJECTS LIKE THAT ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED.
NOT ONLY THE INITIAL CAPITAL BUILD BUT THE OPERATIONS, THE MAINTENANCE OF SUCH PROJECTS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION TO THE FUNDS DISTRIBUTED BY THE PROVINCE, OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL
HAS DONATED MORE THAN $35 MILLION TO MUNICIPALITIES AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS
THE DURHAM REGION.
WE THROUGH OUR DONATIONS COMMITTEE, OUR COMMUNITY HAS ALSO ASSISTED THOUSANDS OF
INDIVIDUALS FROM NEWBORN TO END OF LIFE IN ALL ASPECTS OF ASSISTANCE FOR ISSUES OF
HARDSHIP OR ILLNESS.
OUR DONATIONS HAVE BUILT HOSPITALS, ARENAS, WOMEN'S SHELTERS, MUNICIPAL BUILDINGS,
LIBRARIES, AND MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IN DURHAM REGION.
THE ADVERSE IMPACT OF I-GAMING WILL BE FELT DIRECTLY BY THE MUNICIPALITIES AND LOCAL
CHARITIES AND THE PEOPLE THEY SERVE.
>> Steve: LET'S JUST UNDERSTAND THIS BECAUSE YOUR FIRST NATION IS -- YOU'RE AN
HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF AWAY FROM THIS STUDIO AND YOU'VE HAD BOIL WATER ADVISORIES.
I MEAN, THAT'S PRETTY SHOCKING, IS IT NOT?
>> Chief LaRocca: DEFINITELY.
MOST PEOPLE ARE VERY SHOCKED TO LEARN OF THAT.
AND OUR COMMUNITY WATER INFRASTRUCTURE WAS EXTREMELY OLD AND OUTDATED AND WAS NOT DOING
THE JOB TO APPROPRIATELY TREAT THE WATER AND KEEP IT SAFE FOR OUR COMMUNITY LIKE ALL OTHER
ONTARIANS AND CANADIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
SO WE WANTED TO GET UP TO A LEVEL OF, YOU KNOW, A MINIMUM STANDARD, SO WE'RE MEETING
PROVINCIAL STANDARDS OR EXCEEDING THEM AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT ON BEHALF OF OUR
FIRST NATION, BUT AGAIN THAT TAKES MONEY.
SO WHILE WE DID RECEIVE, YOU KNOW, IN AND AROUND I THINK IT WAS $4.3 MILLION OR $4.5 MILLION
FROM INDIGENOUS SERVICES CANADA AND WE ALSO WERE A SUCCESSFUL APPLICANT FOR THE SMALL
COMMUNITIES FUND, OUT OF OUR SAY $20 MILLION PROJECT, WE'VE SPENT, I WOULD SAY, I THINK IT'S
$14 MILLION OF OUR OWN MONEY AND SO [INDISCERINBLE].
>> Steve: RIGHT.
YOU'VE PUT YOUR CONCERNS ON THE RECORD HERE.
I WONDER HOW -- I MEAN, HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO TALK TO ANYBODY IN THE PREMIER'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS?
HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO TALK TO A CABINET MINISTER ABOUT THIS?
HOW HAVE YOU OFFICIALLY MADE YOUR CONCERNS KNOWN TO GOVERNMENT?
>> Chief LaRocca: WE HAVE SUBMITTED THE STANDARD FORM REQUEST FOR COMMENTS THAT ARE
PUT OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT TO ALL ONTARIANS, BUT IT'S VERY -- NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHERE IT ENDS
UP GOING AND OFTEN YOU'RE NOT RESPONDED TO EXCEPT TO SAY THAT THE FORM WAS RECEIVED].
WE HAVE MADE NUMEROUS REQUESTS FOR CONSULTATION FROM THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT AND ITS
AGENCIES TO DISCUSS OUR CONCERNS AND OUR WANT FOR MEANINGFUL CONSULTATION AND ACCOMMODATION,
AND HONESTLY WE'VE RECEIVED NONE.
WE HAD ONE MEETING WITH SOME BUREAUCRATS THERE TO DISCUSS THEIR THINKING AROUND HOW
I-GAMING IS GOING TO OPEN UP THE POTENTIALITY FOR A NEW MARKET SPACE.
REALLY I JUST SEE THAT AS SPEARHEADING THE YOUTH.
BUT I DIGRESS.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.
BUT I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY MEANINGFUL CONSULTATION FROM THE GOVERNMENT, THOUGH IT HAS BEEN,
I'D SAY, THREE YEARS IN THE MAKING WHERE I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SPEAK TO THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT
IT, THE AGENDA IN GENERAL, AS WELL AS ABOUT ITS BUILDING OF OF COURSE CASINO PICKERING, ITS
PLANS FOR OTHER CASINOS AND MORE RECENTLY THIS I-GAMING ISSUE.
SO IT'S BEEN DEEPLY DISAPPOINTING.
I DON'T KNOW QUITE WHERE TO GO FROM HERE, THOUGH OF COURSE WE'RE ASSESSING OUR OPTIONS.
I THINK THE BIGGEST -- THE BIGGEST ISSUE WITH IT ALL IN MY VIEW IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT JUST
FORCES FIRST NATIONS TO CONTINUALLY HAVE TO RESORT TO LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS SUCH AS
COURTS THAN ACTUALLY SITTING DOWN AND TALKING WITH US.
IT REALLY JUST REDUCES THE RHETORIC AROUND RECONCILIATION TO A JOKE.
>> Steve: WELL, YOU ANTICIPATED MY NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS, DO YOU PLAN TO SUE
SOMEBODY ABOUT THIS?
>> Chief LaRocca: WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR OPTIONS RIGHT NOW, AND CERTAINLY I SEE -- I
SEE OPTIONS OUT THERE WITH RESPECT TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENTS OR DUTIES THAT ARE
OWED AS WELL AS CONTRACTUAL ONES.
UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT AS A ROUTE AND I KNOW THAT OTHER FIRST NATIONS
ACROSS ONTARIO ARE DOING THE SAME AND IN OTHER SPACES AS WELL.
IT'S REALLY DEEPLY DISAPPOINTING BECAUSE OF COURSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BACK IN I THINK IT
WAS 1985 AND MAYBE EVEN PRIOR, IN 1979, SIGNED OVER AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PROVINCE
SAYING THAT IT WOULD GIVE THE ADMINISTRATION BASICALLY OF GAMING, CONDUCTING THE
MANAGEMENT OF GAMING, AS A MONOPOLY TO THE PROVINCES.
AND SO IT COMPLETELY SHUT OUT FIRST NATIONS FROM ENGAGING IN THAT CONVERSATION.
AND NOW SINCE -- OBVIOUSLY SINCE THAT TIME, IN AROUND 1985, THE LAW HAS CHANGED A GREAT DEAL.
SO CERTAINLY THAT WOULD NOT BE LEGAL NOW FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
>> Steve: WELL, THIS IS ONE OF THESE SORT OF TYPICALLY CANADIAN SITUATIONS WHERE, YES, THE
PROVINCE HAS JURISDICTION OTHER CASINOS AND GAMING; BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'RE A FIRST
NATION, AND FIRST NATIONS DEAL ON A NATION-TO-NATION BASIS WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA.
SO I DO WONDER WHETHER THEY HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY ON YOUR BEHALF AS IT RELATES TO TRYING TO GET SOME
TIME AT QUEEN'S PARK ON THIS FILE FOR YOU?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> Chief LaRocca: INDEED THEY DO.
I HAVE SPOKEN VERY BRIEFLY WITH THE MINISTER LAMETTI.
>> Steve: THE JUSTICE MINISTER.
>> Chief LaRocca: YES.
THANK YOU.
HE BASICALLY SAID IF WE COULD GET TO A TABLE WITH THE PROVINCE, THAT HE WOULD BE
WILLING TO SIT AND ENGAGE.
BUT THAT WAS THE LIMIT TO HIS INVOLVEMENT, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE THAT CAN AND SHOULD
BE DONE BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO BASICALLY BREAK UP THE MONOPOLY AND MAKE RIGHT WHAT
WAS MADE WRONG IN THE '80s, YOU KNOW, AND CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR EARLIER QUESTION,
THAT KIND OF UNILATERAL DECISION-MAKING, SILENCE FROM THE FORD GOVERNMENT, IS
INEVITABLY GOING TO LEAD US TO THE COURTS.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHEN AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY WILL ACTUALLY COME TO THE TABLE IN
GOOD FAITH AND MEET WITH US.
>> Steve: I'VE GOT 30 SECONDS LEFT HERE, CHIEF.
I WONDER IF SORT OF FROM THE SCHOOL OF, IF YOU CAN'T BEAT 'EM, JOIN 'EM, WHY DON'T YOU GET
INTO THE I-GAMING BUSINESS YOURSELF?
>> Chief LaRocca: WELL, CERTAINLY WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT FROM AN OLG MODERNIZATION
STANDPOINT.
BACK IN 2014, WHEN MODERNIZATION WAS ANNOUNCED, THEY WERE SAYING, YOU KNOW, LOOK, WE'RE GOING TO
PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS.
WE WILL SURROUND YOU.
WE WILL ATTACK YOUR GAMING LICENCE.
WE WILL PULL THE SLOT MACHINES IF WE DEEM THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE NOT WILLING TO ENTERTAIN
IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO MODERNIZATION WITH US AND BECOME A STAKEHOLDER, WE ARE MORE THAN
INTERESTED.
SO AFTER PROTRACTED NEGOTIATIONS, WE CAME TO AN AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE RETAINED
THAT NATION-TO-NATION, GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP, AS THE
UNDERPINNING, THE UNDERBELLY OF OUR AGREEMENTS, AND AS WELL THE UNDERBELLY TO ALL THE
CONTRACTUAL COMMERCIAL AGREEMENTS THAT WE HAVE WITH OLG AS WELL.
IT HASN'T WORKED OUT THAT GREAT FOR US.
THEY'RE STILL GOING AHEAD AND STEAMROLLING WITH OR WITHOUT US.
AND SO I'M LOOKING AT I-GAMING WITH SOME AMOUNT OF REAL SCEPTIC ISM.
HOWEVER, IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT OUR COMMUNITY WOULDN'T ENGAGE IN SUCH A WAY.
I JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE DATA AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING ABOUT RESPONSIBLE GAMING
BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, EVERYONE'S LIVING ROOM IS OPEN FOR GAMING NOW.
I SEE NO PLAN, NO TRANSPARENCY AROUND RESPONSIBLE GAMING.
IN FACT, THE LAND-BASED CASINOS HAVE FAR MORE INTERESTED STRATEGIES AND FRAMEWORKS AROUND
RESPONSIBLE GAMING THAT ARE LEGISLATED BY THE HCO AND THEY EMPLOY THEM IN THEIR CASINOS
EVERY DAY.
SO WHAT IS IT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO FOR I-GAMING?
I'M NOT QUITE SURE ABOUT THAT.
>> Steve: THAT'S KELLY LaRocca, CHIEF OF THE MISSISSAUGAS OF SCUGOG ISLAND
FIRST NATION.
WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING ONTO TVO TONIGHT AND SHARING YOUR VIEWS ABOUT THIS.
THANKS SO MUCH.
>> Chief LaRocca: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.