- Hey everyone, Jamieleigh here from BirdTricks.
And I'm joined again today with Lauren McGough
and we are talking about when eagles attack parrots
and how to keep your free-flying parrots
safer in the midst of knowing that
eagles are out there too.
So in this part two,
we're gonna be asking some completely different questions,
but they're still really awesome and all
around the idea of keeping our free flighted parrots safe.
So one of the questions I have for you is
(gentle music)
Molting. This is a really confusing topic for me,
just hearing it from falconers.
They always say, oh,
my parrot's going through, or my parrot,
my falcon is going through a molt
and they're not flying.
What is, what does that mean exactly?
Because parrots go through molts
and it doesn't really disrupt their flying.
They might become a little bit uncomfortable
with the feathers, a little bit loose,
but it doesn't mean that we need to put them up
and they will stop flying.
And then also,
how is that relative to wild eagles?
Does that, does molting affect them?
- Yeah.
So the traditional falconry season
is you fly your bird fall and winter,
and we say, put them up for the spring and summer.
So when, when a bird of prey molts,
you want them to be as fat and robust as possible,
let them eat what they want,
because it helps them grow really nice new feathers
and combined with the warmer weather.
Typically, they don't have the appetite
to want to hunt with you.
- Okay.
- In that, and yet, it's because hunting wouldn't be
the forefront of their mind.
If you flew them, they might want to soar.
And then they could get really far.
They tend to zone out when they soar,
cause they're so high up
and it's a good recipe to lose your bird, a falconry bird.
- [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] Now they're not all like that.
I have an eagle right now
that I'm flying through the molt.
So it can be very individual as well.
- [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] And also as a falconer it's can be taxing
to give your bird opportunities to hunt.
It, it can, if you're not careful,
it can take over your whole day, week, life.
So it's nice for us to have a break
for a few months where we, we,
everybody can just relax
and you don't have to
be out looking for jackrabbits all the time,
- Mm-hmm.
- But it doesn't have much to do with,
like, I don't know.
I don't notice any signs of discomfort
- Okay - Or anything
Eagles tend to.
So most hawks and falcons
will molt all their feathers over the spring and summer.
Eagles are unique in that they'll molt about half.
- Okay.
- So you get a partial molt.
And so it takes an eagle
about five years before it reaches
its full adult plumage,
whereas most hawks and falcons
their second year they're in adult plumage.
- Okay.
- So, in the molt is well-timed for birds of prey
because they need to be so robust
to grow good feathers in the spring and summer,
there's lots of young rabbits around,
lots of easy meals,
lots of little ground squirrels. And so it's,
it's relatively easy for an eagle
to become fat and happy in the spring, summer,
and then winter, they have to buckle down
and really work on their hunting to,
to make it, - Maintain
- To maintain through the winter.
- Okay.
- So that's why we
typically don't fly in the summer,
but for wild eagles. Yeah.
It's you'll see, well, a good telltale sign
if you're near an eagle nest
or in their main part of the territory
in that part of the year.
So of course, feathers on the ground.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. In there.
I'm sure parrots must be the same way.
So they're very ingenious about the molt
and then they'll drop mirroring feathers.
- Yes.
Yep. It's the same makes sense.
Good job nature.
- Yeah. Right, exactly.
No, so it's, I loved watching you
with your parrot, helping him get the pin feathers
- [Jamieleigh] Training him. Yeah.
- [Lauren] That come out. Yeah.
Not done that with my eagle, but it makes me
- [Jamieleigh] thinking about it?
That's awesome.
So one of the more, I don't know,
I kind of think it's a dark question in a way,
but will eagles kill for fun?
- Yeah, this is, gosh.
It's, what an interesting question.
It's a hard thing to tease out
because we're, you know, we're,
we're human and what's what is fun to an animal.
I would say eagles,
like I said, they're very opportunistic.
I don't,
I think the closest thing I might see to that
is, say a falconer has,
is flying their falcon and they catch a pheasant.
- Okay.
- So the falcon catches a pheasant and it's in the distance.
The eagle might come in,
kill the falcon and take the pheasant
where it could eat the falcon
or just scare the falcon off.
But the falcon is killed to get the other meal, which,
but that's just,
it's just the dog-eat-dog nature of nature.
Yeah. - Yeah.
- But they wouldn't, I've never experienced eagles,
killing multiple things and leaving them.
And again, it's so hard to survive,
especially in the winter,
they're usually just looking for
anything and everything to get them through
that cold and the next day. - Yeah. Okay.
So another question I have
is how big is their territory?
So say somebody is like, oh, hey,
there's some nesting Golden eagles over there.
Make sure you kind of stay out of their territory.
What does that mean?
How big is a territory approximately?
It doesn't have to be exact, but roughly.
- So this depends on a few factors actually,
it depends how many prey animals are in the environment.
- Oh. - So if it's a really
abundant place and there's lots of rabbits around
that territory's become smaller
because more eagles can survive in a smaller area,
in a place where it's,
it's a down year for a lot of prey animals.
The territory's become huge
because an eagle needs to patrol a big area to get enough.
- That makes sense.
But typically,
I, a square mile. - Okay.
- I would say,
if you were, if you were a mile from a nest,
I would feel pretty good.
I mean the more, the better, but again,
if you're in a place that is doing really well,
its, its prey base is doing really well,
you might get a mile from one nest,
and then be budding against another nest,
- Mm-hm - Which then again,
it'd be good to get away from the hills
- Yeah - Where they tend to
have the most nest.
- Okay, and is there a certain aspect
of how people affect their territory?
Like are they going to stay super far away
from people at all;
homes, houses, just certain things?
or do people not really
affect their territory so much?
- People do affect their territory in different ways.
So for example,
in places where eagles might be shot with some frequency,
eagles might have a higher flight distance,
we call it flight distance,
So the distance at which they see a person
and want to get the heck out of there,
but in places where they don't experience
any persecution from people,
they might lose that fear and become more,
their flight distance is quite small.
So you could get within maybe a hundred yards
of an eagle before it flew.
But generally speaking, eagles don't like
urban environments and they don't want to be around
human structures and things and people in general.
Yeah.
- You aren't likely to have
nesting Eagles on your property.
- Heck no. - Okay.
- They want privacy when they nest.
- Okay. - You have to go
looking and usually looking hard to find one.
- Okay, cool. - Yes.
- That's what I was definitely wondering.
So as far as them, when they come in for an attack,
are you gonna see it coming?
Because I've noticed a lot when we're out flying,
my birds might look up and I'm kind of like,
what are they looking at?
And it takes me a good few seconds to figure out
that that tiny little speck way up there
is maybe an eagle.
How do they attack? Do they just like drop out of the sky,
come straight down and you don't ever see it coming?
Can you hear them? I'm like, what, what does that look like?
- So they're not as stealthy as say a Peregrine falcon.
- Okay.
- That would, that would be,
I think my main worry if I were flying parrots
in certain places.
Eagles are very conspicuous,
they're very loud with the wind rushing
through their feathers.
So I love that you look where your parrot is looking
such a great thing to do.
I would definitely,
if they're interested in some speck of sky,
try to figure out what it is or
identify that bird of prey, at least watch that
other speck - [Jamieleigh] Yeah.
- [Lauren] So an eagle will, it'll dive in,
but not as dramatically or
as fast as a falcon. - [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] So you'll be able to see
that speck bigger and bigger.
They tend to do more, more shallow stoops
instead of a vertical, like a falcon.
They might come in shallow and it's,
you'll have, which is why in our last interview,
I advocated for running
and waving your arms. - Yeah.
- You'll see this big thing coming
and you'll be able to make
your presence known to it. - [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] I would definitely do that.
And I would say it would be rare that one would just appear
out of nowhere on your bird or anything like that.
- [Jamieleigh] Would it look different, if say,
that eagle is sitting in a tree,
just hanging out, maybe we don't see it in that tree.
Maybe our parrots don't see it in a tree.
Are they likely to attack from that
- The, - vantage point,
- [Lauren] If the parrot put itself
at a disadvantage in the
eagle's point of view,
which might be to an eagle,
say sitting on the ground, - [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] Parrot is on the ground
and there's an eagle and a tree
and thinks, oh,
all you gotta do is fly over
and grab it on the ground.
So a parrot flying would be more,
from that vantage on the tree,
they would be less likely to attack,
because an eagle takes
time to get up speed and build
which they need speed for their agility.
So,
if they did attack from a tree,
it would be a beeline.
And it would be
if your parrot was sitting on the ground,
preening, not paying attention, kind of a thing.
- [Jamieleigh] Okay.
Okay, so this is a super interesting question to me
that I've always wondered because it's, for us,
it's really impressive to get our birds flying
for minutes on end, we're just like,
"Oh heck yeah, man, they're still,
this is awesome, this is fantastic."
What is a typical flight duration for an eagle?
Like how long are they in the air?
Because I imagine it's just crazy surpassing.
- So we're talking like our, my falconry eagles?
- Yeah, yeah,
because I imagine those are the ones you're kinda
clocking and able to have data on.
- Yeah, so there's two different ways to fly an Eagle.
- Okay.
- Off the fist or Soaring. - [Jamieleigh] Okay.
- [Lauren] And they're very different.
So Off the fist is when you have the eagle on your glove
and you are walking through the field
and when a jackrabbit flushes,
the eagle leaves your glove and tries to catch it.
And it's a sprint, it's like Usain Bolt,
you get there, you flapping as fast as you can,
as hard as you can, catch up to the jack,
do your quick maneuvers, see if you can catch it.
So that would be like your
hundred meter dash. - Okay
- And then Soaring is much more your marathoner
- [Jamieleigh] Mm-hmm. - [Lauren] 'Cause they have to
find the lift, work the lift, and it's,
I personally think from what I've seen with young eagles,
it's hard to hold your wings out like this for a long time.
And it seems easy.
But when I teach young eagles how to soar,
I think their wings get sore. - Yeah
- Quite a bit in the beginning,
holding them like this.
So it's less initial energy,
but it's over a long period of time.
The other day I soared my eagle for an hour and 40 minutes,
she was on the wing. - Whoa.
- But I also take her out on days that make it the easiest.
So I take her to a hill on a windy day,
the wind's pushing against the hill
and she can ride that elevator up.
But I also think that it's tiring for them
in the wind to be buffeted, - Mm-hmm
- Just working it out.
I think there's so much that it's hard for us to appreciate
about the physicality of flying,
- Yeah
- So I enjoy them both,
the sprinter, the Off the fist flying,
I get maybe six, seven, good sprints,
and then they're too tired. - Okay
- And then I would say about two hours
is the maximum for soaring with a fit eagle for me.
- That's a long time,
And those chases, how long are those chases?
Is it like less than 20 seconds or,
- From the, which kind?
- The one that you were talking about,
where you're just walking through the field
and they just - Yes
- leave your fist and go.
- I would say, most are about 10 seconds.
- Oh my gosh - So it's like,
it's such a crazy thing where I might be walking.
You're walking with your eagle for an hour
and maybe you see two jackrabbits,
so you get 20 seconds where your heart's in your throat and
you don't know what's gonna happen and
"Is the eagle gonna catch it?"
And no matter what happens,
it's so satisfying to watch because I,
my second favorite animal is the jackrabbit
- Aww - because,
oh my goodness, they do, I, they do things.
I didn't even know a mammal was capable of doing,
they'll jump in the air and go over the eagle's head,
they'll do a quick 180 and come back the way they came
and the eagles is kind of in the dust
wondering how they got behind it.
They're amazing. And the vast majority do get away,
which mimics how it would be in the wild.
- Yeah, it kind of makes you appreciate
- Yes
- The agility of those rabbits. That's amazing.
Okay. I, I was guessing it was way beyond five minutes,
but I didn't guess like two hours that, that was that.
So some of the crossover that we have is that we both use
Marshall GPS and telemetry.
How have you kind of learned from that?
And when did you start integrating it?
Was it something that when you were 14,
you knew about different technology?
Were they even in existence then?
Or was it something that's more recent
and did you use it in Mongolia?
Like how, how has it changed,
I guess, training your eagles?
- [Lauren] Marshall GPS is definitely new
and I'm so glad I've been around to experience it.
I would never not use it now. - [Jamieleigh] Yeah.
- It's amazing. So we've always,
since I've been a falconer from 2001,
we've always had telemetry, but radio telemetry,
which is more of a hot cold,
gives you an idea of where your bird is, but it's,
it still takes some nuance to use, and it just,
it gives you ideas more than specifics.
And it was scary. You know,
I used to put so much time into training your bird
and developing a bond.
I was really terrified of
the idea of my bird just flying off
and I couldn't find it.
So that fear, I think,
made me a worse falconer,
because I wouldn't let my bird fly
to the hill or get too far away from me.
I was always calling it back instead of letting it be a bird
- [Jamieleigh] And develop - [Lauren] And develop
- And this GPS which I'm only been using two or three years,
because it's such a new technology,
gives me the confidence to let my eagle
develop into an eagle. And it's great.
It's calming. I don't have the anxiety,
if my eagle flies out of sight to try to get on a soar,
I just look and see on the map where it is.
It, it really lets me let them be a better bird,
- Yeah, that's so cool that you say that
cause Dave and I went through the
exact same mindset, you know,
when we started free-flying
that we didn't know of any sort of technology.
And so we were so much about the training
and it was the same thing,
you're kind of nervous for them to go too far.
And we've really played it safe
and more kind of overly cautious,
and I think it held the birds back,
and we always say like,
what if we had Marshall GPS and telemetry
when we first started, like,
how would it have changed our whole journey?
And so hearing you say the exact same thing
that has been our mindset,
it's just really cool that it's now out there,
so people learning now get to start with it
and just get to have that ease cause you know,
animals are very in tuned for how we're feeling,
so if we're just freaking out and nervous,
- [Lauren] Yeah - They know,
So no, that's really awesome.
Well, thank you so much for doing this interview.
I'm really excited about the new information
that is bringing to free flyers all over
and keeping parrots more safe outside
cause that is our goal, that is what we want to do,
we want to see this done right,
And we don't want to see restrictions put on it
for it being done wrong.
So I appreciate your knowledge and information
and all of it and sharing it with us.
- Oh, thank you. No,
thank you for teaching me about parrots and free-flying,
it's fascinating.
- Oh, definitely. Well, if you guys want to learn more
about Lauren and possibly follow her,
I will leave all of her social links
in the video description.
Big shout out to Marshall.
Thank you guys so much for setting up
all of this awesome collaboration,
lots of links in the video description.
So check them out.
If you want to learn more about GPS and telemetry.
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