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>> NATO HAS BEEN GOOD FOR
EUROPE.
BUT NATO HASES ALSO BEEN GOOD
FOR UNITED STATES.
AND TO NATO, THE UNITED STATES
HAS MORE FRIENDS AND ALLIES THAN
ANY OTHER POWER.
THIS HAS MADE THE UNITED STATES
STRONGER, SAFER AND MORE SECURE.
MADAM SPEAKER, MR. VICE
PRESIDENT, IT IS GOOD TO HAVE
FRIENDS.
PAUL: THAT WAS NATO
SECRETARY-GENERAL JENS
STOLTENBERG WEDNESDAY AYES,
SIRRING A JOINT MEETING --
WEDNESDAY, ADDRESSING A JOINT
MEETING OF CONGRESS MARKING THE
70TH ANNIVERSARY TO HAVE NATO
ALLIANCE AND AMID TENSIONS WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO HAS ACCUSED
SOME COUNTRIES OF NOT PAYING
THEIR FAIR SHARE.
JOHN HANNA IS SENIOR COUNSELOR
AT THE DEFENSE FOR DEMOCRACY.
WELCOME, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT NATO.
A LOT OF CELEBRATING THIS WEEK,
70 YEARS.
BUT BELOW THE SURFACE, A LOT OF
TENSION.
HOW MUCH TROUBLE IS NATO IN?
>> WELL, I AM WORRIED, PAUL.
THIS WEEK WAS A LITTLE STRANGE.
ON THE ONE HAPPENED, IT WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE A CELEBRATION,
BUT AT TIMES IT FELT LIKE A BIT
OF A MEMORIAL SERVICE.
[LAUGHTER]
I DO HAVE THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE
ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE ALLIANCE.
NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE OF A LACK OF
RESOURCES OR CAPABILITIES ON OUR
EASTERN FLANK THAT CAN CONFRONT
A RESURGENT RUSSIA, BUT IT'S
MORE THE PSYCHOLOGICAL
COMPONENT, THE POLITICAL WILL OF
NATO.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE
BOTTOM LINE IS, IS THE UNITED
STATES PREPARED THE FIGHT AND
DIE FOR ESTONIA, LATVIA AND
LITHUANIA, MUCH LESS MONTENEGRO
AND COMING SOON TO A THEATER
NEAR YOU, NORTH MACEDONIA.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE QUESTION.
AND I THINK THAT ISSUE'S MORE IN
DOUBT TODAY THAN IT HAS BEEN IN
A VERY LONG TIME.
PAUL: OKAY.
NOW, IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE
PSYCHOLOGY OF THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC RIGHT NOW WHO'S KIND OF
FORGOTTEN THAT WE FOUGHT TWO
WARS, BLOODY WARS IN THE LAST
CENTURY, OR IS THAT BECAUSE OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP OR PRESIDENT
OBAMA?
WHAT'S BEHIND THAT CHANGING,
THAT DOUBT IN YOUR MIND ABOUT
WHETHER WE WOULD FIGHT?
>> WELL, I THINK IN THE LONGEST
TERM SENSE I THINK THAT IT HAS
BEEN THE LAST 20 YEARS, A SENSE
OF WAR FATIGUE ON THE PART OF
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THE
FINANCIAL CRISIS AND JUST THE
DOUBT THAT WE'RE GETTING ALL THE
VALUE WE NEED OUT OF THESE
MULTILATERAL ALLIANCES.
AND A POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, I
THINK, REALLY BEGINNING WITH
PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT HASN'T AT
THE PEN OF THE DAY REALLY BEEN
PREPARED TO DEFEND THE ALLIANCE
AND REMINDED AND EDUCATE THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT JUST HOW
VALUABLE IT IS TO THIS COLLECTIO
VALUABLE IT IS TO THIS COLLECTIN
OF -- TO HAVE THIS COLLECTION OF
THE MOST POWERFUL AND RICHEST
LIBERAL DEMOCRACIES IN THE WORLD
WHO, WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN,
ARE PREPARED TO COME AND FIGHT
AND DIE WITH THE UNITED STATES
IN ALL AREAS OF THE WORLD
INCLUDING PLACES LIKE
AFGHANISTAN AND THE FIGHT IN
SYRIA AND IRAQ AGAINST ISIS.
IT'S A CAPABILITY, THE ABILITY
TO FIGHT WITH ALLIES, THAT NONE
OF OUR STRONGEST ADD ADVERSARIES
OF OUR STRONGEST ADD ADVERSARIEC
OF OUR STRONGEST ADD ADVERSARIEN
COMPETE WITH.
NOT RUSSIA, NOT CHINA AND
CERTAINLY NOT THE IRANIANS OR
NORTH KOREA.
PAUL: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE
SENSE THAT -- AND THIS IS A
POINT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS
REALLY GETTING AT, WHICH IS THAT
MAYBE BY PROVIDING SO MUCH OF
NATO'S CAPABILITY AND SO MUCH OF
THE MILITARY POWER, WE'VE
CREATED A DEPENDENCY IN GERMANY
AND SOME OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE
THEY FEEL, YOU KNOW WHAT?
WE REALLY DON'T NEED TO SPEND AS
MUCH BECAUSE ALL, WHEN PUSH
COMES TO SHOVE, THE AMERICANS
ARE DOING THE JOB FOR US.
AND WE KNOW THAT GERMANY ISN'T
SPENDING AS MUCH AS IT SHOULDEN
ON DEFENSE.
>> YEAH, THERE'S NO QUESTION
THIS IS A PERENNIAL PROBLEM,
PAUL, THAT'S GONE BACK NOT JUST
ONE OR TWO DECADES, BUT FOUR OR
FIVE DECADES THAT AMERICAN
PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING
ABOUT OUR ALLIES' REFUSAL TO
REALLY STEP UP AND CARRY THEIR
FAIR SHARE OF THE BURDEN.
THAT CONTINUES TO BE THE CASE,
ALTHOUGH ONE HAS TO SAY IN THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION -- AND THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OUGHT TO
CLAIM SOME CREDIT FOR IT, THAT
SINCE THAT INVASION OF CRIMEA
AND IAN UKRAINE IN 2014 THE
ALLIANCE IS NOW ON TRACK TO ADD
AN ADDITIONAL $100 BILLION WORTH
OF CAPABILITIES.
AND THE FACT IS THAT ALONE AND
BY THEMSELVES -- AS A
COLLECTIVE, CANADA AND EUROPE
HAVE A COMBINED DEFENSE
CAPABILITY AND SPENDING THAT
EXCEEDS THAT OF RUSSIA AND CHINA
COMBINED.
IT'S A SIGNIFICANT CAPABILITY
THAT'S ADDED TO AMERICAN
CAPABILITY.
THEY HOST AMERICAN FORCES SO
THAT IN ANY FUTURE CONFRONTATION
WE'RE GOING TO TO BE FIGHTING ON
THE BORDERS OF RUSSIA, NOT ON
THE ATLANTIC SEA BODY OF THE
UNITED STATES -- SEABOARD OF THE
UNITED STATES, AND WE'RE ABLE TO
PROJECT POWER AROUND THE WORLD
NOT ONLY AGAINST RUSSIA BUT,
OBVIOUSLY, INTO THE MIDDLE EAST
FROM EUROPE.
PAUL: RIGHT.
>> AND, AGAIN, THESE ARE THE
RICHEST, STRONGEST COUNTRIES IN
THE WORLD, TRADING PARTNERS.
SO THERE IS TREMENDOUS
CAPABILITY THERE.
PAUL: RIGHT.
DO YOU THINK THAT, TO YOU
FORESEE THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN IS
LOOKING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO
TEST NATO IN THIS, AND WHETHER
OR NOT WE REALLY WOULD COME TO
THE DEFENSE OF THE BALTIC
STATES, FOR EXAMPLE, OR
MACEDONIA OR SOME OTHER COUNTRY?
>> YES, I DO THINK THAT THAT
RISK -- WHILE STILL RELATIVELY
SMALL -- HAS GONE UP OVER THE
LAST SEVERAL YEARS.
AGAIN, IT IS AT THE END OF THE
DAY, IT IS THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL
COMPONENT.
THE FOUGHT THAT THERE IS AN
AMERICAN PRESIDENT SOMEWHERE IN
THE BACK OF HIS MIND BELIEVES
THAT NATO AND THE E.U. AND OUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH EUROPE IS A
PART OF SOME GREAT BIG CON
AGAINST CAN THE UNITED STATES TO
ROB OUR WEALTH AND TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF US, THAT IT'S A
SUCKER'S PLAY TO SOME EXTENT.
I THINK THAT DOES ERODE THAT --
PAUL: RIGHT.
>> -- THE UNDERLYING MESSAGE OF
DETERRENCE THAT THE ALLIANCE HAS
TO CONVEY TO RUSSIA.
AND IT ENCOURAGES A PUTIN THAT
THINKS HE CAN CHALLENGE AND
SPLIT NATO AND FRACTURE NATO AND
UNRAVEL THE ALLIANCE.